Ghost image with HDR turned off

[kamkar]

Okay i have just remembered i had a camera going

In the very first video i have this little grey car passing by down below, note the dual antenna on the roof, the car like most only have 1 antenna.

A white van a little later.

 

[viofo]

HDR mainly helps to avoid car number over exposed for the night, but the ghost image in the daytime is a common issue.

Such issue maybe solved in the future with new tech, like using the Sony STARVIS 2 sensor.

 

[ipollen]

Okay i have just remembered i had a camera going

In the very first video i have this little grey car passing by down below, note the dual antenna on the roof, the car like most only have 1 antenna.

View attachment 60712

A white van a little later.
View attachment 60713

Thank you for testing.

That is exactly the same double image I am seeing.

I am doing a hard reset before my commute to work this morning. Will report the results later this morning.

 

[ipollen]

HDR mainly helps to avoid car number over exposed for the night, but the ghost image in the daytime is a common issue.

Such issue maybe solved in the future with new tech, like using the Sony STARVIS 2 sensor.

I understand the limitations of the current sensor but this ghosting is with HDR turned off in the app.

Are you saying this is normal with the latest firmware?

 

[ipollen]

I did a hard reset before my journey in to work today and sadly the double ghost image is still there at 30fps.
I hooked up the rear camera too just to see if that effected anything, no change.

I will actually enable HDR for my return journey to see if the app has the settings back to front. (grasping at straws I know)
If that does not cure the problem then I think I will return the A139 for a refund as the current firmware has made it pointless as a evidence capture device if it can't read number plates half the time.

Or is there a source of older firmware I can try as I am hoping this is a firmware bug?

 

[kamkar]

I think this is clearly something that have sneaked in with later firmware's.

 

[Nigel]

I will actually enable HDR for my return journey to see if the app has the settings back to front. (grasping at straws I know)

I've just tested mine in sunshine similar to your video, with V1.6, with HDR On, and I can see no sign of any double images, it looks very good!
Possibly my hardware doesn't support HDR, it was a very early version, so I think I give up with my testing.

It would be interesting to see yours operating with V1.5 or earlier, if you can find a copy.

I think this is clearly something that have sneaked in with later firmware's.

Does look like it is due to the addition of HDR, like @Kremmen said for the V3, maybe it is not possible to turn it properly off.

If HDR can't be turned off, maybe @viofo needs to make a non-HDR version of the firmware available for people who do not want the double images?

 

[ipollen]

I've just tested mine in sunshine similar to your video, with V1.6, with HDR On, and I can see no sign of any double images, it looks very good!
Possibly my hardware doesn't support HDR, it was a very early version, so I think I give up with my testing.

It would be interesting to see yours operating with V1.5 or earlier, if you can find a copy.


Does look like it is due to the addition of HDR, like @Kremmen said for the V3, maybe it is not possible to turn it properly off.

If HDR can't be turned off, maybe @viofo needs to make a non-HDR version of the firmware available for people who do not want the double images?

Thank you for your efforts Nigel. If the HDR settings are in reality LOW and HIGH then if I enable HDR it should in theory look even worse 🤔 At least it will confirm what we think is going on.
VIOFO support have now downloaded my video and forwarded it to an engineer.
I am happy to try any older firmware version if someone can supply me...

 

[CaptureYourAction]

Thank you for your efforts Nigel. If the HDR settings are in reality LOW and HIGH then if I enable HDR it should in theory look even worse 🤔 At least it will confirm what we think is going on.
VIOFO support have now downloaded my video and forwarded it to an engineer.
I am happy to try any older firmware version if someone can supply me...

Viofo A139 Firmware

Firmware updates for Viofo A139 2 and 3-channel dash camera. Caution! Incorrectly installing firmware can cause your camera to become inoperable. Sometimes permanently. Firmware listed on this site comes directly from the manufacturer. Install at your own risk and only if you feel confident...

www.captureyouraction.com

 

[kamkar]

Maybe enabling HDR will make the double frame go away ? i have not tried that
It could be a mistake of on / off, i will try that now as i leave home soon to visit my old mother.

 

[ipollen]

Maybe enabling HDR will make the double frame go away ? i have not tried that
It could be a mistake of on / off, i will try that now as i leave home soon to visit my old mother.

Exactly my thinking, I am going to try on my journey home today.

 

[kamkar]

My camera are running with HDR on, but leave home now for some hours, will report later

 

[ipollen]

I turned HDR on in the app and the image ghosting is exactly the same. In fact the look of the video is identical to HDR off so HDR must be permanently on in the latest v1.6 firmware. I will try a downgrade to v1.5 and see what happens.

 

[kamkar]

Okay just looked over some footage taken with HDR on, and it is the very same.
Maybe a little less pronounced, but that is probably down to the speed of the vehicles in the footage.

 

[ipollen]

They have certainly messed something up with this firmware :-(

 

[Nigel]

Maybe a little less pronounced, but that is probably down to the speed of the vehicles in the footage.

In your images, and ipollen's images, there are clearly two exposures for each frame, and they are both short exposures. HDR On should have 1 short exposure and 1 long exposure, so something is not working sensibly!

Hopefully V1.5 will remove the problem, and then Viofo can sort the problem with V1.7.

 

[kamkar]

That is the problem, some times with firmware, and wanting to fix something there, something new pop its head out, but this is something that happen for both big and small companies.
I am not sure if the companies get all out of their testers, or let me put it in another way i am sure they could get more out of them, and that should stop some things at least from ending with the end customers.

I would be just fine if Viofo contacted me with a new firmware and said " hey Brian, we have this new firmware where we have worked on so and so problems and improvements, and we would appreciate if you would test it and look for so and so possible problems or maybe this or that, and report back to us in a XX days "
That would narrow my focus onto things that are actual solutions or problems, and i would not nessesary have to start from scratch every new firmware,,,,,,, even if it is not a bad thing to do anyway, but focussing on current imoporovements / problems are probably best, and then later see if there are any unfortunate fallout of those undertakings elsewhere.

 

[Kremmen]

This old reply from Viofo shows that HDR is indeed a double exposure problem :

VIOFO A119 V3

I really think lighting and other things are big factors. I got this plate yesterday, but there were many I didn't get. 1440, 30fps, HDR off, cpl on. Edit: What I thought interesting was that at above settings, bitrate was about 30kbps, while at 60fps it was around 26kbps, hence the smaller...

dashcamtalk.com

 

[ipollen]

This old reply from Viofo shows that HDR is indeed a double exposure problem :

VIOFO A119 V3

I really think lighting and other things are big factors. I got this plate yesterday, but there were many I didn't get. 1440, 30fps, HDR off, cpl on. Edit: What I thought interesting was that at above settings, bitrate was about 30kbps, while at 60fps it was around 26kbps, hence the smaller...

dashcamtalk.com

In my simple mind I expect the IMX335 Sony sensor was designed for more static security camera use and the HDR double exposure functionality just is not cut out to handle fast moving objects.
VIOFO support have told me to downgrade to v1.5 to cure the problem.
The only that bugs me is they have not acknowledged the fact that the HDR setting in the app seems to be broken and have no effect ON or OFF. It seems to be permanently on when using 30fps.

I will revert to v1.5 today and test again.

 

[Nigel]

In my simple mind I expect the IMX335 Sony sensor was designed for more static security camera use and the HDR double exposure functionality just is not cut out to handle fast moving objects

That is partially true, but on the A119 V3, the HDR On setting definitely has a useful effect in some circumstances. I'm not seeing any useful effect in any of the A139 images that have been posted on this thread, so I'm not convinced the A139 HDR is configured correctly, even when On.

I'm not convinced that HDR On is actually desirable even on the A119 V3, but some people prefer it on, depends somewhat on your driving.

The next generation, with STARVIS 2 HDR is actually designed for use with fast movement and should be somewhat better, but for now there are no dashcams with HDR that clearly has an overall advantage over no HDR, it is only an advantage in certain circumstances, and a disadvantage in others.