I need to find the muppet magnet

[jokiin]

We have a lot of the variable speed roads, predominantly on the paid tollways though

 

[map]

Sadly, much of our highway code book is advice - so some tend to ignore it. The main rule in the book says 1st exit = left lane, turning right or full circle, take the right lane. Anything else = sort yourselves out. They also go on to show a pic (a few posts up) where a car in the right lane turns right, car in the left lane goes ahead - but it's a 2 on, 2 off so in this instance, the right hand lane is also OK for ahead - as long as the car keeps to its lane & exits in the right hand lane.
We then have an appendix to the highway code which gives us the 12 o'clock rule. You are entering at 6 o'clock. Any exit up to and including the 12 o'clock = left lane, anything after = right lane.
All this is 'unless signs or markings indicate otherwise'.
Interesting that this 12 o'clock rule only appears in the appendix yet it was taught back in the earliest days as a general rule of thumb.
There is also some confusion because some exits aren't symmetrical. The 'straight ahead' route might be at your 2 (or even 3) o'clock position. This is where you need to read the road signs.
Generally, the straight ahead road will have the same route number as the approach

Even with your clear explanation, UK roundabouts don't seem very intuitive, especially if you can't clearly see the other side of the roundabout. I guess unless you know the area most people would/should stick to the left lane.

 

[Nigel]

Even with your clear explanation, UK roundabouts don't seem very intuitive, especially if you can't clearly see the other side of the roundabout. I guess unless you know the area most people would/should stick to the left lane.

In my part of the country most roundabouts have the lanes clearly marked so that you do know which to use but you still have to allow other vehicles to change lanes if they wish to do so. Most of the roundabouts in sludgeguts videos seem to be lacking lane markings.

If drivers aren't sure which lane to choose or aren't sure which exit they want then they will tend to use the right lane as then at every exit they have the option to continue around or signal left and leave, using the left lane can often mean you can't safely carry on around and even if the lane markings allow it other drivers aren't expecting it which can cause problems. Most accidents are caused by people trying to pass another vehicle at the same time as it changes lanes, if you follow the rules for overtaking then it is very unlikely you will have such an accident, a tiny bit of patience can make things considerably safer even if you can come up with some legal or technical explanation for why you shouldn't have to be patient.

 

[map]

In my part of the country most roundabouts have the lanes clearly marked so that you do know which to use but you still have to allow other vehicles to change lanes if they wish to do so. Most of the roundabouts in sludgeguts videos seem to be lacking lane markings.

That makes more sense. After viewing sludgeguts videos, I was starting to wonder if it was a UK wide thing to not mark smaller roundabouts.

 

[reverend]

A lot of it changes between areas as the local councils will potentially have their own preferences and ways of interpreting the standards.

What causes even more problems is when they decide to go and change something but then all the TomTom and similar navigation devices are out of date and tell people to be in one lane when they should be in another.

That's half the problem with all these electronic devices - everyone becomes reliant on them and you do see a lack of common sense in some places.

Our local authority have got a drive to bring speed limits down now, so places that were 60mph are creeping down to 40mph.

I don't mind if it makes it safer but in some instances they've changed dual carriageways to 40mph on roads where there are no footpaths or other roads on or off so you'll get some people trundling along at under the limit as they always do, some doing the limit and then the ones that see dual carriageway and just think it's 70mph and try and force everyone out of their way!

 

[reverend]

I've just read this on the BBC News today - seeing as it's usually Audi drivers that cause you problems maybe there's a link @sludgeguts

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31761576

 

[sludgeguts]

Even with your clear explanation, UK roundabouts don't seem very intuitive, especially if you can't clearly see the other side of the roundabout. I guess unless you know the area most people would/should stick to the left lane.[/QUOTE]
Exactly...
Highway code rule 160
Once moving you should

• keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road

In my part of the country most roundabouts have the lanes clearly marked so that you do know which to use but you still have to allow other vehicles to change lanes if they wish to do so. (my understanding is that you only changed lanes when it was clear and/or safe to do so, the onus is on the person who is changing lanes ...MSM, motorway journeys would be chaos if we all had to keep slowing to let someone change lanes) Most of the roundabouts in sludgeguts videos seem to be lacking lane markings.

If drivers aren't sure which lane to choose or aren't sure which exit they want then they will tend to use the right lane as then at every exit they have the option to continue around or signal left and leave, using the left lane can often mean you can't safely carry on around and even if the lane markings allow it other drivers aren't expecting it which can cause problems. Most accidents are caused by people trying to pass another vehicle at the same time as it changes lanes, if you follow the rules for overtaking then it is very unlikely you will have such an accident, a tiny bit of patience can make things considerably safer even if you can come up with some legal or technical explanation for why you shouldn't have to be patient.

You mean, most collisions are caused by people changing lanes without first checking to see if it is safe to move into that lane?
Rules for overtaking are quite clear
163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

• move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in

Remember: Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre

How many times do we see YT clips of drivers simply cutting lanes or coming down sliproads & expecting those already on the motorway to give way to them? The onus is on the driver who is changing lanes to give way.

 

[map]

Highway code rule 160
Once moving you should

• keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road

I'm not sure that rule 160 would apply there, as there are two lanes marked going into the roundabout???

Remembering that my knowledge of the UK highway code comes from this thread and the brief read I had of the gov.uk website , I'm going to say that 40% of the problem is the roundabout having inadequate markings, and 60% the Merc for not having enough sense to keep out the way of a bus.

 

[Error7]

@ error7 with that mop you have on your head I am suprised at your knowledge of hairdressers...........reminds me of my national service (am I hurting you son....no sargeant .....WELL I SHOULD BE I AM STANDING ON YOU RUDDY HAIR......GET IT CUT.............Ipol

Haha Ipol. Unfortunately that photo was taken about 40 years ago (my secret's out) These days I don't have enough hair to make a 'Short Back and Sides'

 

[Ipol]

@ error7 never mind I wont tell if you dont I think I inherited my hair from my dad It grows too quick I have to have it cut once a month.....Ipol

 

[sludgeguts]

I'm not sure that rule 160 would apply there, as there are two lanes marked going into the roundabout???

Remembering that my knowledge of the UK highway code comes from this thread and the brief read I had of the gov.uk website , I'm going to say that 40% of the problem is the roundabout having inadequate markings, and 60% the Merc for not having enough sense to keep out the way of a bus.

Actually, they do apply.
Keep left - ok, straightforward enough.
Exceptions... when turning right

And in the case of a roundabout, this is backed up by the 12 o'clock rule - anything up to and including the 12 o'clock is keep left, anything after this (and if the roundabout wasn't there, you'd be turning right) is the right hand lane.
The exceptions to this rule are "unless signs or markings indicate otherwise"

I spoke with one of the guys in the highways department (it's also in the same compound where we take our vehicles for maintenance). The reasons for not laying markings or adding to signs is the costs involved. Standard white lining costs over £100 per metre (and them arrows are bigger than they look) plus additional costs for adding signs to guide drivers through lanes. So they are reluctant to go to the added expense when the highway code is clear on which lanes to use.
They only tend to go the extra when there is a high number of collisions reported at a site as in the approach to this roundabout

Because there was a high number of collisions wheree cars would come down the outside & cut people up, it's now been given markings so left lane is left turn only, right lane is ahead & right.
And that still doesn't stop the morons! There'll be another video as soon as insurance clears the damages.

 

[map]

Actually, they do apply.
Keep left - ok, straightforward enough.
Exceptions... when turning right

And in the case of a roundabout, this is backed up by the 12 o'clock rule - anything up to and including the 12 o'clock is keep left, anything after this (and if the roundabout wasn't there, you'd be turning right) is the right hand lane.
The exceptions to this rule are "unless signs or markings indicate otherwise"

I spoke with one of the guys in the highways department (it's also in the same compound where we take our vehicles for maintenance). The reasons for not laying markings or adding to signs is the costs involved. Standard white lining costs over £100 per metre (and them arrows are bigger than they look) plus additional costs for adding signs to guide drivers through lanes. So they are reluctant to go to the added expense when the highway code is clear on which lanes to use.
They only tend to go the extra when there is a high number of collisions reported at a site as in the approach to this roundabout

I had already forgotten about the 12 o'clock rule

If we didnt have well marked roundabouts there would be chaos, people here can't even get it right with adequate signage.