I need to find the muppet magnet

[reverend]

@sludgeguts you weren't waving your willy at them through the window were you? I'd have sped off in fear of my life if so

 

[Nigel]

You're making this up as you go along aren't you?
Rule 187 applies more to the huge multi-lane roundabouts, NOT where two vehicles enter a small roundabout at the same time. He was alongside me through the roundabout therefore it would be impossible to see what he was doing & where he was going. I did give them plenty of room since I obviously didn't cut the roundabout.
As for not seeing that he did anything wrong - you completely skipped over rule
186
Signals and position
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

• signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
• keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
• signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

He had lead position approaching the roundabout so had the choice of lanes. He chose the right hand lane therefore I have to assume that he is turning right - else what is the point of having a set of rules?

The rule for turning right is irrelevant since he wasn't turning right, he didn't indicate right so you had no reason to think that he was and without him indicating right, undertaking him was unwise.

And since you read the appendix, at what point did the merc driver correctly follow the 12o'clock rule?

I can't see a 12 o'clock rule, the only thing that mentions 12 o'clock is one of the diagrams and the diagrams are only advice: "Follow the advice in the diagrams".

 

[sludgeguts]

The rule for turning right is irrelevant since he wasn't turning right, he didn't indicate right so you had no reason to think that he was and without him indicating right, undertaking him was unwise.


I can't see a 12 o'clock rule, the only thing that mentions 12 o'clock is one of the diagrams and the diagrams are only advice: "Follow the advice in the diagrams".

"The rule for turning right is irrelevant since he wasn't turning right, he didn't indicate right"
He moved into the right hand lane on the approach to the roundabout. None of us know if he indicated at this point.
I refer you back to rule 186
186
Signals and position
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

• signal right and approach in the right-hand lane

And as for the 12 o'clock rule...
3. Taking the third exit (d) at 12 o’clock
Approach in the left hand lane. It does go on to mention an approach in the right hand lane, however, the diagram is for a 2 lanes on, 2 lanes off roundabout.
See also rule 185

Also, I didn't undertake him. I simply followed procedure at roundabouts (many thousands of drivers do the exact same thing every day), and just because this isn't enshrined in law, the advice is given in order to keep everyone safe (just like all the other advice given in the highway code), had I not braked when I did, the outcome wouldn't have been too good for him.

Can I assume, then, that if you were in a similar situation you would simply sit and wait until there is no traffic alongside you? NO, you assume that everyone else is following the advice of the code book. That is why our roads are far safer than some countries' where it seems to be a free for all & chaos reigns.

 

[sludgeguts]

@sludgeguts you weren't waving your willy at them through the window were you? I'd have sped off in fear of my life if so

WAVE it? At my age I'm lucky if I can FIND it

 

[Nigel]

Can I assume, then, that if you were in a similar situation you would simply sit and wait until there is no traffic alongside you? NO, you assume that everyone else is following the advice of the code book. That is why our roads are far safer than some countries' where it seems to be a free for all & chaos reigns.

I would follow the normal rules for overtaking, specifically rule 163:

Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

• only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
• stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

Following those rules would have ensured that there was no issue.

 

[Dashmellow]

It's really hard to imagine this kerfuffle is actually still going on over @sludgeguts simply sharing another one of his clips but it somehow prompted me to view the video again.

Leaving aside the roundabout polemic for the time being, I wonder if anyone else happened to notice a certain hand gesture made by the driver at the 59 second mark, just before the Audi hits the accelerator.
Hard to tell what the ultimate intent of this gesture may be but the timing is rather interesting. Just sayin'. (watch full screen for best detail)

 

[jokiin]

Around here we're expected to believe the driver is saying something along the lines of "oh no, my stupid gearbox has failed again"

Seems legit

 

[GJHS]

Around here we're expected to believe the driver is saying something along the lines of "oh no, my stupid gearbox has failed again"

Seems legit

Her gesture may be linked to her inability to keep her car stopped against the forces of not a single clutch yet a double clutch failure pulling her forward. A sort of "Oh well" gesture

If she only knew she had no brake lights, while she was trying to push the brake pedal through the floor to stop her double clutch failure from causing her from running that light.

 

[sludgeguts]

I would follow the normal rules for overtaking, specifically rule 163:

Following those rules would have ensured that there was no issue.

WTF are you on?
Rule 163, bullet point 4 kinda gives the game away here "Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in"
As I started in the left lane, the only way I could overtake would be to move over to the right and mount the roundabout!

 

[jokiin]

As I started in the left lane, the only way I could overtake would be to move over to the right and mount the roundabout!

so now your true intentions are coming out

 

[sludgeguts]

so now your true intentions are coming out

Yeah, when you look at many of the roundabouts in this area & see all the mangled street furniture, you come to the conclusion that taking the straightest line possible (ie up and over the middle of the roundabout) is quite common - even though quite a few roundabouts are some 3 - 4ft higher than the road surface.
Maybe I should do a special compilation of clips - "damaged roundabouts WTF ?"

 

[Ipol]

@ error7 with that mop you have on your head I am suprised at your knowledge of hairdressers...........reminds me of my national service (am I hurting you son....no sargeant .....WELL I SHOULD BE I AM STANDING ON YOU RUDDY HAIR......GET IT CUT.............Ipol

 

[tk000]

Why has no one pointed out there being a traffic light leading into a roundabout? That kind of defeats the purpose a roundabout...

 

[Nigel]

Why has no one pointed out there being a traffic light leading into a roundabout? That kind of defeats the purpose a roundabout...

There isn't, that is a pedestrian crossing some distance before the roundabout - with green lights unless the pedestrians want to cross.

 

[jokiin]

Why has no one pointed out there being a traffic light leading into a roundabout? That kind of defeats the purpose a roundabout...

we have some roundabouts here with traffic lights, they use them if the traffic is too heavy

 

[map]

Does UK roadlaw say that the Merc must turn right if its in the right lane? The diagrams of the rules aren't that clear, and it reads to me that if you want to turn right you must do so from the right lane, not that you can't go straight.

In my state, unless otherwise signed, the left lane can turn left and go straight, the right lane can go straight and turn right, and in this situation the other side of the roundabout is treated as merging to a single lane.

Had I been driving the Merc, I would have done the same thing, however I would have accelerated hard so as not to be in the way of a merging bus as they have right of way.

 

[sludgeguts]

Does UK roadlaw say that the Merc must turn right if its in the right lane? The diagrams of the rules aren't that clear, and it reads to me that if you want to turn right you must do so from the right lane, not that you can't go straight.

In my state, unless otherwise signed, the left lane can turn left and go straight, the right lane can go straight and turn right, and in this situation the other side of the roundabout is treated as merging to a single lane.

Had I been driving the Merc, I would have done the same thing, however I would have accelerated hard so as not to be in the way of a merging bus as they have right of way.

Sadly, much of our highway code book is advice - so some tend to ignore it. The main rule in the book says 1st exit = left lane, turning right or full circle, take the right lane. Anything else = sort yourselves out. They also go on to show a pic (a few posts up) where a car in the right lane turns right, car in the left lane goes ahead - but it's a 2 on, 2 off so in this instance, the right hand lane is also OK for ahead - as long as the car keeps to its lane & exits in the right hand lane.
We then have an appendix to the highway code which gives us the 12 o'clock rule. You are entering at 6 o'clock. Any exit up to and including the 12 o'clock = left lane, anything after = right lane.
All this is 'unless signs or markings indicate otherwise'.
Interesting that this 12 o'clock rule only appears in the appendix yet it was taught back in the earliest days as a general rule of thumb.
There is also some confusion because some exits aren't symmetrical. The 'straight ahead' route might be at your 2 (or even 3) o'clock position. This is where you need to read the road signs.
Generally, the straight ahead road will have the same route number as the approach

 

[reverend]

we have some roundabouts here with traffic lights, they use them if the traffic is too heavy

Same here mate - supposedly the staff member from the local council who is in charge of the roads around here commissioned a set of lights on two roundabouts that had been pretty free flowing. The result now is that you queue for ages waiting for the lights to change and it's caused carnage the way they've split the lanes up.

Ironically whenever the lights are out due to power failures there is no traffic as everyone resorts to using it as a roundabout and it flows really easily.

Now another mile down the road there's a proper roundabout that is an issue and causes loads of incidents - but have they put lights on that? Have they heck!

 

[jokiin]

The ones here with lights just operate as regular roundabouts the bulk of the time, the traffic lights only come into effect if there's congestion, might see them working for an hour each week if that

 

[reverend]

That's definitely a better idea mate - these are on constantly and it's crazy as sometimes if I'm late headed home from work I'll be sat there literally two minutes waiting for the cycles to change.

Hopefully we'll see more of that style rolling out here - we've already got lights in certain places around this area that do that, usually on junctions to motorways but as you can imagine a lot of cars struggle to get up to 70mph from more than half way down a junction so when they're on there are usually issues on the motorway where everyone else slams anchors on or changes lanes.

We're rolling out the smart motorways in a lot of places over here where they can adjust speeds as they need - when they're off the usual 70mph applies on a motorway and then they can adjust them all the way down to 30 to keep traffic flowing. In all fairness so far they seem to have brought improvements.