K2 shuts down for no reason/at random

OCD Tronic

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You have a new DVR and power supply. We’ll ship a set of cameras next.
 
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DesertBike

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Appreciate that. Let me see whether the system keeps shutting down or fails to power up, over the next several rides. I should know for sure by the end of the week.
 

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10 years, many dashcams
When you get to put on the new cameras, try and see if you can be gentle with the wires, and maybe have less severe bends in them if you have that.
The advent of remote cameras ( one or more ) do seem to have added 1 more level of possible complexity to vehicle cameras.

I am currently testing a brand new brand and model dashcam, and was having problems from day #1, but the following days i figured out that if i unplugged the remote rear camera the system performed well.
So not wanting to go without the rear camera i put on a spare cable i had from another brand dashcam, and by chance it worked and aside for other things making the system unstable, once i figured those out the system have performed pretty good for a brand new brand and model of dashcam ( it actually have 3 cameras but only the rear one are remote )
 
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DesertBike

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I suppose it's gotta be something with the cameras - we've replaced everything else (save the GPS antenna)!

For testing purposes, I'll leave the GPS antenna unplugged at first - just to rule that out as part of the problem.
 
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DesertBike

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We're done here, folks.

Over the past few weeks, I tried the following things:

--new cameras installed, GPS antenna left disconnected. DVR still shuts down.*

--moved DVR from inside fairing to behind (but not beneath) seat, just in front of top case. DVR shut down whenever it was hot out.*

--made sun shield for DVR, consisting of a piece of plastic with thermal insulation tape (the kind of stuff you would wrap an exhaust with), to keep the sun off the DVR. It still shut down whenever the sun was up.*

--moved DVR under seat. Same behavior as before, though it took a bit longer to shut down.

*I haven't done bench testing (e.g. plugging it in and pointing a hair dryer at it, or running it in a heated room) but I think the DVR suffers from a basic inability to cope with heat.

I did have the K2 work perfectly for a few rides. But it was only those rides we took at sunset or later, when the temperature was down to 85°F or less. Any daylight ride, and it would consistently shut down. Leave it off long enough, and/or give it plenty of air (such as by riding on the interstate for 10-15 minutes), and it will power up again and work for a while - until it overheated again.

Can't prove it without temperature logging, but it acts like the DVR is overheating & shutting itself off as a means of self-protection. Can take as long as an hour, sometimes happened within 30 minutes of leaving home.

Either that, or the power supply was initiating shutdowns, for the same reason.

Of course, this inability to operate in hot weather makes it useless as a dashcam.

OCDTronic, I appreciate your efforts to fix this situation, but it's not fixable. Innovv needs to redesign their DVR and/or power supply so it's reliable in hotter climates. I've had 3 (both power supply & DVR) that all behaved exactly the same, regardless of firmware used. It's a hardware problem.

I haven't removed the K2 from my bike, I mean it DOES work on night rides so might as well leave it. I guess I'll wait for the Viofo MT1 to come out and give that a shot next.
 

OCD Tronic

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Sorry it didn’t work out not sure what’s unique to your ride. We’ve replaced everything. No other reports of your situation so not sure what would need to be redesigned for a one off. We’ve sold thousands of these world wide in plenty of hot climates too. It’s a disappointing mystery for sure though sorry again.
 
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DesertBike

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That's the most insane part of it...there isn't anything unique about my bike. It's a perfectly standard Suzuki Vstrom DL1000.

Innovv needs to look at heat dissipation. That's the only thing left, and my testing strongly suggests it is the culprit. Either the power supply or DVR or both is overheating and shutting down.

I don't know how else you explain that the K2 works fine in winter, but shuts down whenever the sun's up in the summer.
 
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OCD Tronic

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Where is your main DVR exactly? near something extra hot or no ventilation? There are plenty of hot climate customers not reporting this issue so nothing to compare against. (Texas, south Florida, southern California, Nevada desert, Middle East, Australia you name it)

We’ve replaced everything for you, some parts three times now. It’s a bit of a mystery for sure.
 

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Been following along here for some time, and wondering WTF? myself.

So I just did a google on Vstroms and charging, and it appears from several forums that these have a problem with the rotor magnets moving out of place, and there's many reports of stator and regulator/rectifier issues too, which can lead to low charging rates and/or the presence of AC voltage where it should be DC only (rectifier). From what little I've read it also seems the guys who use battery maintainer charging while parked often never discover low voltage problems until they forget to plug in and the next time out their bike dies or won't restart after a stop.

So I don't know if @DesertBike is aware of these things or whether he's checked them but it may be where the root of the cam problems are at.

Phil
 

SawMaster

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not familiar with his bike but there are some bikes that are notoriously difficult when it comes to interference issues
I didn't look far or for long, but if the rectifier pack has partially failed with some AC getting into the system then there's a good chance of this. And it was said that there's a lot of rectifier/regulator failures. Plus if the rotor magnets slipped or a stator coil partially shorted (also widely noted as problems) the charging current would 'pulse' more than planned for and might have something to do with this too. Electronics can act funny when they're not getting fed clean DC current.

Like many (most?) bikes, it's a permanent magnet rotor and fixed 3-phase (I think) stator. I'm pretty familiar with these in general but not in the EMI department or with this specific model. You can get a single rectifier failure in the R/R pack and never know it save for there being low charging voltage and low battery symptoms with a partially shorted stator coil giving the same symptoms. A hot or new battery helps hide the problem but with an old or weak battery you will know something's wrong, and quickly!

Phil
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
the fact that it's not a problem for the majority of their customers and multiple items have been swapped out already it does sound like there's something about the bike itself that is an issue for the camera, hooking a temp power source independent of the bikes electrical system is maybe the only way to diagnose if it's a power input problem, not as easy to do on a bike though, if it's still an issue then it may be an EMI issue, bike ignition systems aren't filtered like a car setup is due to not normally having to deal with things like FM radio etc, if that's an issue though it's generally common enough for there to be some info about that online already
 

SawMaster

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The lack of similar problems with everyone else is what made me think it might be the bike which is why I looked into it. I do seem to remember hearing of and issue or two with this cam but if that's right it's still a very tiny percentage- less than with most cams. With all the replacement parts sent and used it's almost impossible that the cam is at fault directly, but mounting and cable routing locations could be causing it to go wonky.

The better full-size touring bikes are as refined as cars are now since it's expected for them to have all kind of stuff added on later, but I don't know how far down the model range that goes- just too many years since I've payed that much attention to bikes.

Phil
 
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DesertBike

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Where is your main DVR exactly? near something extra hot or no ventilation? There are plenty of hot climate customers not reporting this issue so nothing to compare against. (Texas, south Florida, southern California, Nevada desert, Middle East, Australia you name it)

We’ve replaced everything for you, some parts three times now. It’s a bit of a mystery for sure.
I tried 3 different DVR locations:

-inside right side of fairing. Right behind one of the large vents in the fairing, so it certainly got plenty of airflow on the highway. Also the Vstrom fairing is mostly "open." I could see the DVR while sitting on the bike and there was plenty of open space near it.

-behind (but not under) seat, just in front of top case.

-under seat.

For the first position, power cube was secured to outside of frame and semi-shaded. For the second and third positions, I had to move the power cube under the seat so the wires would reach.

Same behavior with all 3 installations.
 
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DesertBike

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Been following along here for some time, and wondering WTF? myself.

So I just did a google on Vstroms and charging, and it appears from several forums that these have a problem with the rotor magnets moving out of place, and there's many reports of stator and regulator/rectifier issues too, which can lead to low charging rates and/or the presence of AC voltage where it should be DC only (rectifier). From what little I've read it also seems the guys who use battery maintainer charging while parked often never discover low voltage problems until they forget to plug in and the next time out their bike dies or won't restart after a stop.

So I don't know if @DesertBike is aware of these things or whether he's checked them but it may be where the root of the cam problems are at.

Phil
Yes, there were issues with early (roughly 2002-2012 model) Vstrom DL1000 charging systems. I dealt with all that stuff years ago though.

I installed an aftermarket regulator/rectifier (Shindingen 847, same R/R that's stock on Vstrom DL1000's after 2012 (?)) in 2017. Fixed the rotor magnets and got a new stator at the same time. Also installed a voltage monitoring device, so I would know if the charging system wasn't working properly. Had the stator rebuilt to better-than-factory specs later that same year (end of 2017). New battery last winter (late 2019).

Overall: bike's charging system has been absolutely reliable since well before I bought the Innovv K2. It provides 14.5V any time the engine is running, so there's no reason for the K2 to shut off. Unless the DVR or power supply is overheating, which is basically all that's left.
 
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DesertBike

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the fact that it's not a problem for the majority of their customers and multiple items have been swapped out already it does sound like there's something about the bike itself that is an issue for the camera, hooking a temp power source independent of the bikes electrical system is maybe the only way to diagnose if it's a power input problem, not as easy to do on a bike though, if it's still an issue then it may be an EMI issue, bike ignition systems aren't filtered like a car setup is due to not normally having to deal with things like FM radio etc, if that's an issue though it's generally common enough for there to be some info about that online already
I only know of two other Vstrom DL1000 owners with Innovv K2s, but both have a newer model (2014-2016). But since I have the same regulator/rectifier and my charging system is healthy, the electrical setup is basically identical.

Naturally, neither of those guys has the weird problems I do.

I don't buy the EMI explanation for the reasons you mention. It should be happening with other Vstrom K2 owners, and also I have several other electronic devices on the bike that don't malfunction. For example, heated grips, a 12V USB charger, heated gear power supply, and a voltage monitor LED (uses electronics to color-code a light according to charging voltage). All of that stuff is 100% reliable. It's only the K2 that acts weird.

If I had another bike to use for testing, I would, but I only have the one.
 
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DesertBike

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to clarify: I know what voltage the charging system is producing whenever I'm on the bike. I have never seen it dip below the "normal" range (12.9-15.2V) while riding, not once, so the K2 cannot be shutting down due to low voltage.

also: thread title edited for accuracy.

FWIW, I tried powering the K2 via USB only instead of using the "cube." Not sure if I mentioned that here before. That time, the DVR stayed on, but it stopped recording video, and overheated so badly that it physically damaged the SD card.

That was back when I had the DVR inside the fairing.

I haven't tried using USB power with the DVR behind or under the seat. I could possibly try that, but I'll use one of my older/smaller capacity SD cards because I don't want to risk frying another one of my Samsung 128 GB ones.
 
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SawMaster

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Well then the bike seems good, the cam seems good, and should be no EMI, heat, or powering issues so I'm at a loss to explain it unless you've got Rod Serling on back and you're riding in the Twilight Zone.... and I doubt that too. Wish I could have been of more help here.

I do want to say that all involved have my respect for the extra efforts they've made throughout and in sharing it here.

Phil
 
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DesertBike

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It's got to be heat. There's been a strong correlation between "it's hot out" and "K2 shuts itself down" ever since the weather warmed up.

The only times it has stayed on for more than an hour lately, has been on night rides.
 
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DesertBike

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FWIW, I found that the last pair of video files (front and rear) being recorded when the DVR shuts off, is always corrupted. The files won't play, show a "00:-1" duration in Dashcam Viewer, and show no duration info in Windows File Explorer.

The files have varying sizes, depending on how far into the 3-minute period the DVR turned off.

This suggests that the DVR is being suddenly turned off by the power cube - rather than a normal shutdown.

Might as well try it again with USB power on the bike, instead of the cube, but with DVR mounted behind (but not under) the seat. I tried this previously with the DVR mounted inside the fairing, and had the DVR overheat so badly that it damaged the SD card. This time I'll use a small, old SD card that I don't care about that much.

I'll get corrupted final video files, since USB power cannot allow a graceful shutdown. But, maybe I can prove that the random shutdown problem is with the power cube. That's where the available evidence seems to go.
 
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