K2 shuts down for no reason/at random

jokiin

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
50,475
Reaction score
28,608
Location
Sydney, Australia ~ Shenzhen, China
Country
Australia
Dash Cam
Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
we’re talking about GPS signal degradation from the bike itself
that's what I was referring to previously although my comments were general in nature, not saying it's the problem in this particular case, it's very common with some models of Ducati and BMW though
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
This is where I've had the GPS antenna for the entire time, including the previous K2 system:




In case you don't speak Vstrom, that's right at the back end of the seat, at the front edge of the "carrier" area. I have a big aluminum plate there where the top case attaches.

I can't say whether I had consistently reliable GPS logging with the old setup (DVR in front, GPS antenna as shown here) because I had the DVR constantly being shut down, whenever it was warm out. As we now know, that was due to a fault in the previous power converter design. I was preoccupied by that problem; GPS logging was secondary.

Now that I seem to have the power issue sorted, I've been noticing the GPS problem.

Moving GPS antenna to top case this evening, we'll see whether it makes a diff. The EE in me says it shouldn't, since the plastic top case (usually containing nothing more than a helmet bag and windshield towel) should be transparent to GPS signals. But, he also says that RF stuff is weird and unpredictable.

FWIW, here is at least one other person having a similar issue to mine:


You'll note his antenna placement is utterly irreproachable.
 

OCD Tronic

Well-Known Member
Retailer
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
1,122
Reaction score
906
Location
Carson City, Nevada (USA)
Country
United States
Dash Cam
VIOFO, GitUp, INNOVV, QVIA, GUARD TRAK + More on Amazon.com
If you move the GPS antenna as far away as possible, above every solid object, and you still get the same results I’ll send you another pre-tested antenna to test with.
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,521
Reaction score
15,058
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
Yeah it is my understanding that the GPS puck /mouse antennas you want as far from the camera / main unit as possible, but sure some dashcam brands have the antenna in the mount and about as close to the unit as you can get.

I do not know if the different approach also entail some "secret" sauce for the brands that do the GPS in mount, i am currently testing a GPS build into the camera system, and by the looks of it the antenna part are just there on the skywards side of the plastic housing, and there dont appear to be any shielding in between it and the other components ( 2 camera units and the main PCB ) only on the PCB itself do you find a EMI shield covering just the SOC as i recall or maybe the SOC + WIFI chip.
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,521
Reaction score
15,058
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
I am thinking maybe the puck / mouse antenna are more omni directional, another system i am testing ( the SG9663DR ) the GPS antenna are meant to be put on the dashboard, reverse of what i have been used to for many years.
But ever the provocateur i have put the antenna on my windscreen and so upside down, and to be honest GPS fix are just as fast / good as any other camera i have ever worked with.
 

jokiin

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
50,475
Reaction score
28,608
Location
Sydney, Australia ~ Shenzhen, China
Country
Australia
Dash Cam
Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah it is my understanding that the GPS puck /mouse antennas you want as far from the camera / main unit as possible, but sure some dashcam brands have the antenna in the mount and about as close to the unit as you can get.
can be inside but then the design needs to be different to work that way, external GPS generally need to be kept away from the main unit, away from the cameras etc
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
that's what I was referring to previously although my comments were general in nature, not saying it's the problem in this particular case, it's very common with some models of Ducati and BMW though
Wish you'd specified that. "GPS interference" is a totally different animal than some random selectromagnetic interference (EMI) happening only within the system.

I don't know why anyone diagnosing a GPS problem would not at least confirm that GPS service is normal in their area, at some point. That's why the other dashcam system's data is relevant here. It shows as well as practical (short of 24/7 monitoring) that there aren't any unusual RF phenomena disrupting GPS signals in the area of operation, whether accidentally or by enemy action.

In any event, the GPS antenna is now on top of my top case. Pics later.
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
I am thinking maybe the puck / mouse antenna are more omni directional, another system i am testing ( the SG9663DR ) the GPS antenna are meant to be put on the dashboard, reverse of what i have been used to for many years.
But ever the provocateur i have put the antenna on my windscreen and so upside down, and to be honest GPS fix are just as fast / good as any other camera i have ever worked with.
Pretty much, the "puck" type antenna has a more or less hemispherical pattern. Thus the recommendation to mount it horizontally, so it has the most gain toward the sky (where the sats are at).

I wonder how the SG9663DR GPS deals with the roof of the car being partly in the way? Seems like it would either degrade or totally block signals from 1/3 to 1/2 of the sky.

The genius of these GPS antennas is that the orientation of them does not matter, as long as they have a good sky view.
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
Yeah it is my understanding that the GPS puck /mouse antennas you want as far from the camera / main unit as possible, but sure some dashcam brands have the antenna in the mount and about as close to the unit as you can get.

I do not know if the different approach also entail some "secret" sauce for the brands that do the GPS in mount, i am currently testing a GPS build into the camera system, and by the looks of it the antenna part are just there on the skywards side of the plastic housing, and there dont appear to be any shielding in between it and the other components ( 2 camera units and the main PCB ) only on the PCB itself do you find a EMI shield covering just the SOC as i recall or maybe the SOC + WIFI chip.
Wondering about this too. The GPS antenna for my Viofo A129 Duo is right up against the windshield, and in fact forms part of the mount for the front camera (and main system unit).
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,521
Reaction score
15,058
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
There was a guy a while back, his dashcam totally knocked out the build in navigation in his Subaru,,,, something, but i cant recall if it was only when the GPS antenna was connected or what.
I think the norm for build in GPS stuff is to have the antenna in the dashboard, probably some place forward near where it meet the windscreen

Anyways as you see GPS issues i would try all kind of silly stuff out with that to see if it make any change
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
Anyways as you see GPS issues i would try all kind of silly stuff out with that to see if it make any change
I was going to say I would try a silly hat, but I'm kind already wearing one (Shoei GT Air).
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,521
Reaction score
15,058
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
I was thinking put the antenna in the back of your shirt and run the wire down inside, but it might be a near impossible way to get hooked up to the unit and get on the bike.
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
Nah, I'd forget it was there and try to get off the bike without unplugging.

The antenna is supposed to be horizontal, so that it has the best possible view of the satellite constellation (horizon to horizon).
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
Another ride down in high heat, not only did the K2 stay on but it looks like I got GPS data the whole time. 3 different "trips" since I stopped for gas on the way home.

Took a picture of new antenna placement earlier but it wasn't good (too blurry). I'll see if I can get a better one. In the meantime, just imagine a big ol' plastic box with the GPS antenna on top, something like 18" away from the DVR, because that's the new setup.
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,521
Reaction score
15,058
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
Sound like a good excuse to gather the boys and go log some miles this weekend :)

High heat here too, actually with a little luck we might see a new Danish all time high temperature record, at least the next two days are pegged above 30 degrees, and the record is 36 degrees.
I think working in the field tomorrow and Saturday are not going to be much fun, but a man gotta do what a man gotta do and help out his friend.
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
I'm reasonably confident the heat-related poweroffs, the original topic of this thread, have been licked.

There's plenty of >90°F weather left in the year, so I'll find out for sure over the next couple of months.

Once I get several more rides done with no problems, it might be time to tinker with Innovv's new "one app to rule them all." It's interesting, but I haven't felt like messing with it while I was struggling with the system simply staying on.
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States


New GPS antenna location.

This is of course with the top case lid open.

You can see the previous GPS antenna location just to left of bottom center of photo.

That's 2 days in a row now with complete GPS data on all riding, even short rides. :)
 
OP
D

DesertBike

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
258
Reaction score
149
Country
United States
Went on a much longer (~5 hours) ride today.

System stayed on (yay!), GPS mostly behaved - but I had 3 places, widely separated, where for just one point, the GPS thought it was in North Africa, thousands of miles away.

WTF?
 
Top