K2 shuts down for no reason/at random

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DesertBike

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apparently those are the magic words, found and fixed mechanical problem last night. Rode to work today. Boy did I miss that.

K2 stayed on for the commute, but then again it never had problems in the (cool) morning. Will do an extensive test-ride this afternoon to really find out what's what.
 
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DesertBike

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Rode around for about an hour and a half after work. Temps were mid-to-high 90°F range.

Good news, K2 stayed on, new power converter seems to have no issue with high temps. I haven't had it be this reliable in the heat...ever.

Bad news, GPS logging was sporadic, almost random. Didn't start until 25 minutes after I turned on the electrics. 30 minutes later, GPS drops out again for 3 minutes. Then it's logged for the rest of the way home (about 8 more minutes).

I'm sticking with 1-minute clips for now because it makes it easy to keep track of when GPS is and isn't logged.

I guess the v0.70 firmware has a GPS problem. All the hardware is brand new, including GPS antenna. Today was my first ride with the complete new system.

Open to suggestions on how to get GPS to behave.
 

OCD Tronic

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I’m not aware of any GPS bug

If multiple GPS units behave the same way for you and you have a whole complete new system now, I think you can point the finger at some type of interference with nearby electronics or poor signal pass through if you have metal in your seat etc. (not sure where you mounted it) post photos.
 
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DesertBike

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We can rule out GPS interference. One, deliberate jamming is super unlikely. Two, I was glancing at my phone (running OSMAnd+) the whole time, but it never lost position.

I could try repositioning the antenna, but it's unlikely to help. It's already on a good ground plane (top case adapter) and the top case should be transparent to GPS RF energy (plastic). So, clear view of the sky.

I'm just happy the thing is staying on. That's a huge deal!
 

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We have some GPS extension cables. I can send you one if you want to mount it on top your helmet or other short term external high point location as a test just to compare behavior.
 
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Thanks, but there's plenty of cable as-is, since I have the DVR near the back of the bike. I'll try sticking the antenna on the lid of my top case.

It would be bizarre if a plastic top case could obscure enough of the sky to prevent a GPS fix for almost 30 minutes, but stranger things have happened.
 

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It’s more than that, move it as far away from wherever it’s at as possible for testing. If you need the extension cable let me know so you can completely rule out as much as possible.
 

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We can rule out GPS interference. One, deliberate jamming is super unlikely. Two, I was glancing at my phone (running OSMAnd+) the whole time, but it never lost position.
phones use A-GPS so will keep tracking even if GPS signal is poor
 

kamkar

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I cant say i recall many cases where "stuff" interfere with a dashcam GPS antenna, to me it more seem to be the other way around with the camera messing up something else in peoples cars.

But trying to put the GPS antenna in all new locations for testing sound good, if it is as bad as you say you dont have to drive for days with a 1 wire spaghetti all over your bike
 

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I cant say i recall many cases where "stuff" interfere with a dashcam GPS antenna, to me it more seem to be the other way around with the camera messing up something else in peoples cars.
not a common issue in a car, bike electrics are a whole other ball game though as most don't have multiple computers etc that need to be shielded so things can be noisier without causing problems, until you introduce some aftermarket device that is
 

kamkar

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If the electronics arnt loud the bike usually is :)
I was overtaken and then for a while driving behind two Harley riders today, even long ahead of me and just following traffic i was able to hear them just fine.
I dont get that, i would want my Harley to be more quiet than a Tesla car.

Though i must admit i have been wanting to try the inner tube on exhaust mod for a while, i think my little anemic car would be good for that mod.
but that dont make the car louder i think just more weird sounding
 

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You did replace 100% of everything yes? (Not just the power supply). Let us know the open air gps test results.
 
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Yep, I totally removed the old system before installing the new.

Believe it or not it's nice that this is the only problem left.
 
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If the electronics arnt loud the bike usually is :)
I was overtaken and then for a while driving behind two Harley riders today, even long ahead of me and just following traffic i was able to hear them just fine.
I dont get that, i would want my Harley to be more quiet than a Tesla car.

Though i must admit i have been wanting to try the inner tube on exhaust mod for a while, i think my little anemic car would be good for that mod.
but that dont make the car louder i think just more weird sounding
My take on exhaust is this:

I'm wearing earplugs anyway. I have to, else I'd suffer hearing loss from wind noise - it is seriously loud on the highway.

So I don't much care what the exhaust sounds like.

I don't subscribe to the "loud pipes" lie. You could have an aircraft-grade anticollision beacon on top of your helmet, and a train horn, and some car drivers would STILL not see or hear you on your bike.
 
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DesertBike

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not a common issue in a car, bike electrics are a whole other ball game though as most don't have multiple computers etc that need to be shielded so things can be noisier without causing problems, until you introduce some aftermarket device that is
I am not going to go down the "EMI" rabbit hole.

It wasn't the cause of the mysterious poweroffs. I could drive myself nuts speculating about some random, undetectable "electronic noise" issue.

The K2 is the fanciest accessory I have on the bike. If it's interfering with itself...that's not good, but perhaps can be worked around (e.g. by placing the GPS antenna very far from the DVR).

Something is keeping the K2 from getting a GPS fix until at least 15 minutes into the ride, seemingly every time. I got no GPS data at all on my morning commute for example, as the trip is around 12 minutes.

Then, sometimes the system will lose position for several minutes, then pick it up again.

BTW, not sure I mentioned this before, but when I say "no data" I mean the location defaults to coordinates of 0°N, 0°E, the origin of the latitude-longitude grid. Directly south of Ghana, and directly west of Gabon.

It may help to know more about how the K2 gets its GPS almanac info. Does it download an almanac through the app, which in turn grabs it over the Internet? Does it rely on old-fashioned downloading from the satellites (the "hard" way)?

The very first time I powered up my new K2 system, I let it sit for over an hour. That should have been enough time for it to download a new GPS almanac, either through the app or the "hard" way.
 
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DesertBike

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phones use A-GPS so will keep tracking even if GPS signal is poor
A-GPS does help get a faster initial fix.

It is not however magic.

If GPS satellite signals are totally unavailable, phone has to rely on cellular towers and/or WiFi (depending on the implementation), which mode isn't very accurate.

"GPS satellite signals are totally unavailable" is very very unlikely unless you are inside a metal box, deep underground, or both.

I don't think that's what's happening here.

It would help to know more about how the K2 tracks GPS. For example, how few satellites/what degree of DOP will make it default to the 0°N, 0°E position?
 
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OCD Tronic

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This thread explains how dashcam GPS systems work.


 

kamkar

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and some car drivers would STILL not see or hear you on your bike.

Thats what i feel too, and as i say when bikers pull the "so cars can hear me argument" is well if you are so safety minded why dont you wear a high visibility west or outfit too, and that most often shut them up

Dont get me wrong in 1985 or something i put a 5 - 6 " pipe on my Volvo 121, but just the last 2 foot of it, everything forward was still there and working as it should.
And this backfired bad on me as my car was pulled over and i was called in for a inspection the 1967 car would probably have failed, but i was lucky and a few weeks later some drunk guy plowed into me and shortening my old Volvo with 2-3 feet.

BTW i met a guy at the pizza joint yesterday,,,,,, high on strong painkillers and with one arm in a sling and supported by his GF, he was just mowed down on his motorcycle by a oncoming car suddenly changing into his lane,,,,,,,, he had that motorcycle for 1 week.

Me personally i would love a bike to drive, if it was not for all those idiot car drivers, i would just love to tour the US for 5-6 month on a Nimbus,,,,,,,, cuz that will get people talking even if it is not that loud.

I am however not licensed to drive a motorcycle - or taxi - or a bus with more than 9 passengers, but other than that i am good, and also pretty sure i can drive a bike better than a lot of the people i see on Danish roads.
 
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DesertBike

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We can put the "GPS interference" idea fully to rest.

I just reviewed the last week's worth of dashcam video from my car (Viofo A129). I drive it the same places I've been riding. 100% GPS data, every time, every trip.
 

OCD Tronic

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We can put the "GPS interference" idea fully to rest.

I just reviewed the last week's worth of dashcam video from my car (Viofo A129). I drive it the same places I've been riding. 100% GPS data, every time, every trip.


Help us understand the logic, did you have the A129 mounted right next to the K2 GPS antenna? The car has nothing to do with the bike. We aren’t talking about interference from things you drive-by. we’re talking about GPS signal degradation from the bike itself in some undiscovered way. Not sure how you thought that’s a good comparison.

Perform the recommended external test by moving the antenna above every solid object as high as possible let us know the results. Move it as far away from the current spot as possible.

We’ve sold thousands of these there are no other GPS issues that weren’t immediately resolved by replacing the GPS antenna. (Broken wire contact inside etc, rare but has happened) You have multiple GPS’s to test with as well now.
 
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