Mobius A2 lens experiences & observations

[Dashmellow]

If the developer is giving you the runaround, it is obvious his mind/whatever is somewhere else, it seems he/they have been that way for a while now. If I were you I would address him directly and find out if your assistance in helping him is being used to refine the camera to a conclusion or what? I can't see you wasting your valuable time on someone else's venture/camera without some active participation on his part to report back with how he used your findings/report.
This is like buying a cow because you desperately need the milk, but forgetting to tell the milker where the cow is!

The developer is one of the nicest people you could ever meet. I wouldn't categorize his responses as being a "runaround". I would like to get a more detailed and thorough follow up to some of the issues and questions but that may well happen eventually. It is not like there's been no response at all over the last nine months of corresponding. To be honest, some of it may be my fault because I have taken my own sweet time to follow up on M2 beta firmware updates that have been sent to me because I've not always had the time to devote to testing as I might like. This A2 lens thing is a different kettle of fish though and there does need to be more clarity about the prevalence of the issue at this point.

 

[Hombré]

can appreciate the written word is often open to interpretation, or misinterpretation quite easily

Wrong interpretation is more common than most believe/interpret and I'm an atheist.

Your work here Joker is invaluable so keep it up.

I think its human to be picky and pedantic with cameras but there are limits albeit temporary.

 

[Harsh]

The helmet mount has rendered all of today's footage useless. Post tightening; somehow the M1 moved a bit downward after the ideal mounting angle and position were set (too much dashboard coverage). Will add the videos in a day or two.

The sun was out all day, can't say that I've noticed any shifting till now.

I do have some rear mounted footage from the new D lens though, will post those in a bit.


Here's a comparison of the 3 lens profiles under tree cover, C does look better.

(Compressed to 65%)

A




B



C

 

[Hombré]

Lovely clear photos but you need a dashmat for more clarity and less work on the lens

 

[Harsh]

Anyway here's one with the sun hitting from all possible directions

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2QpS6z26WogWnY4b19OQmdYeEk

 

[Hombré]

Anywaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay........... How about trying to remove the immediate reflections from your dashboard or am I missing something

 

[Dashmellow]

While reflections can be important to deal with they are not at all germane to what is being discussed here.

 

[SawMaster]

I fully understand your situation. My recent sporadic absences here have been because of business issues which have been extant for 2 weeks but were only resolved yesterday. During the interim I have been going nuts handling things that weren't mine to handle all to keep a potentially lucrative deal from falling apart all by myself with almost no relevant communications from those I needed the most. Tomorrow marks the end of my part of the process and a return to whatever sanity I have

It is far too easy to overload oneself which causes more problems than it solves. Much better to handle what you've got in front of you first then let tomorrow handle the new problems as they come in

Phil

 

[jokiin]

Here's a comparison of the 3 lens profiles under tree cover, C does look better.

not seeing any major changes between them like the examples Dashmellow got, perhaps that's more to do with the subject material though

not a lot between them, lighting changes which is always a challenge when not side by side, interesting experiment all the same

 

[Harsh]

not seeing any major changes between them like the examples Dashmellow got, perhaps that's more to do with the subject material though

not a lot between them, lighting changes which is always a challenge when not side by side, interesting experiment all the same

View attachment 30129

Colour of the trees looks a little better with the C lens profile. The change in lighting could also be a contributing factor. Absolutely correct about the side by side thing, results will never be accurate with just one unit.

 

[Dashmellow]

@harsh's images do look quite similar to one another and certainly nothing like I've experienced.

Today was the first truly sunny day we've had in some time and I was able to do some further testing with the A2 camera on the C lens setting.

In bright sun there is a distinctly warm, yellow bias, whereas under more overcast skies the color balance appears much more neutral. I did notice a touch of that yesterday under more the overcast conditions which is why I said that I felt that mSetup will still need a dedicated A2 lens setting but the distinct yellow cast seen here in bright sun obviously is an issue so I'm going to try the "B lens" setting and see what happens because it was a little cooler. Compared with the CYAN color cast from before this yellow bias is still way more acceptable, at any rate.

At this point I am beginning to wonder if the particular camera unit I have may have some unique flaw not seen in the general production. If that turns out to be the case I speculate that the problem lies with the sensor and lens module, not the camera. On the other hand, with my unit set to the "C" setting the color shifting problem has completely been eliminated which is interesting even if the C setting isn't providing the perfect white balance.





Edit: Please note that not all my footage looked quite this yellow today. Some look almost normal or only slightly too warm. I chose the above examples to demonstrate the issue I was seeing. All in all though, the C setting did have a yellow cast today.

 

[Harsh]

The subtle shift is there on my A2 unit as well, shifts twice in the video below.

A lens setting

IMO it's too minor to be a concern from a dash cam perspective.

 

[jokiin]

IMO it's too minor to be a concern from a dash cam perspective.

it's possibly more of a concern for people that want them for RC use

 

[Harsh]

Another lens profile comparison in quick succession

A



B



C



Had parked behind the red car to check if the shifts were happening but the previous video has already confirmed that.

 

[jokiin]

try this, makes it easier to flick between the images to see the differences http://gifmaker.me/

 

[Dashmellow]

The subtle shift is there on my A2 unit as well, shifts twice in the video below.

A lens setting

IMO it's too minor to be a concern from a dash cam perspective.

Well, that certainly confirms the same issue on a different unit which is valuable information. From my experience the shifting is quite variable depending on the circumstances, the lighting conditions and the size of the red objects the camera encounters. Sometimes, the problem is quite pronounced and sustained, sometimes it is rather subtle, sometimes it is intermittent and temporary and at other times the issue doesn't appear at all. Often the issue manifests a pronounced and sustained overall Cyan color cast even when there is no RED object in the FOV at all! I'll be interested to see if you have any similar experiences the longer you use the camera with the A2 lens installed.

What troubles me about this problem is that color shifts were a known issue that was vanquished years ago back in the days of the phase 1 firmware development. Bringing out a new lens that replaces a previous very similar lens but that reintroduces an old firmware issue is a step backwards. Considering that the A lens and the A2 lens are so similar and that there was no real problem with the original lens, what's the point? My original A lens Mobius produces outstanding looking perfectly color balanced footage. Unfortunately, for me this experience has all the feel of the M2 camera which I have also come to think of as a step backwards.

Personally, I do not find this problem to be of "minor concern". I find it unacceptable!

 

[Harsh]

From my experience the shifting is quite variable depending on the circumstances, the lighting conditions and the size of the red objects the camera encounters. Sometimes, the problem is quite pronounced and sustained, sometimes it is rather subtle, sometimes it is intermittent and temporary and at other times the issue doesn't appear at all. Often the issue manifests a pronounced and sustained overall Cyan color cast even when there is no RED object in the FOV at all! I'll be interested to see if you have any similar experiences the longer you use the camera with the A2 lens installed.

The shifts my A2 unit is experiencing are subtle and don't last more than a few seconds (at least under these conditions).

What troubles me about this problem is that color shifts were a known issue that was vanquished years ago back in the days of the phase 1 firmware development. Bringing out a new lens that replaces a previous very similar lens but that reintroduces an old firmware issue is a step backwards. Considering that the A lens and the A2 lens are so similar and that there was no real problem with the original lens, what's the point? My original A lens Mobius produces outstanding looking perfectly color balanced footage. Unfortunately, for me this experience has all the feel of the M2 camera which I have also come to think of as a step backwards.

These issues should get resolved once the new lens profiles are added.

For now, with the shifting confirmed, plan on leaving it set on the C lens setting till an update addressing this issue is available.

Personally, I do not find this problem to be of "minor concern". I find it unacceptable!

Don't mean to discount your concerns with the A2 in any manner whatsoever. As a Beta tester who's testing the camera for all possible chinks in its armour (from not only a dash cam perspective), I would whole heartedly agree with you.

My sole purpose of getting the A2 unit was a narrower secondary view that captures licence plates better than my wider angle cameras. And from what I can see, the A2 seems to be quite apt for the intended purpose.

 

[Lola]

The helmet mount has rendered all of today's footage useless. Post tightening; somehow the M1 moved a bit downward after the ideal mounting angle and position were set (too much dashboard coverage). Will add the videos in a day or two.

The sun was out all day, can't say that I've noticed any shifting till now.

I do have some rear mounted footage from the new D lens though, will post those in a bit.


Here's a comparison of the 3 lens profiles under tree cover, C does look better.

(Compressed to 65%)

A

View attachment 30124


B

View attachment 30125

C

View attachment 30126

To be honest I can't see any difference between the 3. I used the man in the chair as a reference point.

 

[Dashmellow]

The shifts my A2 unit is experiencing are subtle and don't last more than a few seconds (at least under these conditions).

It does seem that what you are experiencing is much more subtle that my experience here. I would probably consider this to be of "minor concern as well".

It is not yet clear why there would such a pronounced difference but I'm sort of glad to see some form of conformation of the problem at any rate. If you keep testing time will tell if things get worse under different conditions, assuming you are still using the "A" setting.

These issues should get resolved once the new lens profiles are added.

So far, since first reporting it in February there has been no acknowledgment from Mobius that this issue even exists. There has been no mention to date of any new lens profile being added to the firmware.

From my perspective, as long as the CYAN color cast is as severe and persistent as it is, (for me) there is a problem that requires addressing that will probably be of concern to dash cam users as well as FPV enthusiasts.

 

[Harsh]

To be honest I can't see any difference between the 3. I used the man in the chair as a reference point.

Other than the colour of the trees, there's actually not much difference.