Mobius Telephoto Dashcam

The IR filter glued with silicone seems fine. But the 12mm lens and the 8mm lens can't focus on the Mobius. The housing blocks them before they can screw in far enough. You would have to modify the case
 

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The IR filter glued with silicone seems fine. But the 12mm lens and the 8mm lens can't focus on the Mobius. The housing blocks them before they can screw in far enough. You would have to modify the case
It's a common problem that you have to modify the Mobius case to use 3rd party lenses, which usually means widening the hole for the lens barrel or the wider section around the front element.

From memory, the only one I have found so far which does not require a case modification is the 25mm F2.4 from Treeye.

As has been mentioned before, the cases are quite easy to cut back to the desired size. And if you change your mind you can buy a new replacement case fairly cheap. It might be harder to find the original version with the round LED hole though.
 
The IR filter glued with silicone seems fine.
What silicone did you use (looks like the standard 100% Silicone)? Did you place the filter on the lens then use the silicone to "clamp" the filter into place? Since the filter is 6.5mm diameter I guess it doesn't leave you much room (if at all) to adhere between the surface faces. I'll be using 9.5mm filters so that should give me a bit more wiggle room.
 
What silicone did you use (looks like the standard 100% Silicone)? Did you place the filter on the lens then use the silicone to "clamp" the filter into place? Since the filter is 6.5mm diameter I guess it doesn't leave you much room (if at all) to adhere between the surface faces. I'll be using 9.5mm filters so that should give me a bit more wiggle room.

It's General Electric silicone from Zinger Hardware and I'm guessing it's sold at big box hardware stores. I just put down the filter and used a piece of thin cardboard to dab tiny droplets of silicone around the edge
 
It's a common problem that you have to modify the Mobius case to use 3rd party lenses, which usually means widening the hole for the lens barrel or the wider section around the front element.

From memory, the only one I have found so far which does not require a case modification is the 25mm F2.4 from Treeye.

As has been mentioned before, the cases are quite easy to cut back to the desired size. And if you change your mind you can buy a new replacement case fairly cheap. It might be harder to find the original version with the round LED hole though.

I have to disagree with your approach here. Having to modify the case on a Mobius is only a "common problem" if you are in the habit of purchasing lenses that are not compatible with the camera in the first place. While I would certainly be willing to modify the case (or other components such as the threaded lens module barrel) on a Mobius camera if I needed to (and I have), the goal should be to install compatible lenses in the first place. I think it's fine to modify a camera if you need to for a specific lens but I believe doing so should be the exception, not the rule.

A week ago in this thread I tried to make the case that it is best to order lenses from a knowledgeable vendor who is able to provide all the technical information you need to make an intelligent lens buying decision.

The consequences of buying from a vendor who tells you absolutely nothing about what they are selling you result in the kind of experience @jackalopephoto reported yesterday where he says, "But the 12mm lens and the 8mm lens can't focus on the Mobius. The housing blocks them before they can screw in far enough. You would have to modify the case". This is exactly the kind of outcome I was cautioning about.

If you want to install an aftermarket lens in your camera, the first thing you need to do is measure the thread depth of the lens module on your camera. In the case of the Mobius it is 12.5mm. Then add the distance from the lip of the module to the front of the camera's case. Now you know how long the threaded barrel on the new lens needs to be in order for it to screw into the barrel as far as required. As long as the lens is narrow enough but with a long enough threaded barrel, you don't need to worry about the size of the hole in the case.

thread_depth.jpg

I first encountered and learned about this issue several years ago when installed a different lens into my old G1WH. The first three lenses I tried wouldn't work because of the thread depth on both the lens and the module barrel. While I did have to make an alteration the camera's housing, even without the front of the case even on the camera three different lenses would not work at all because I couldn't screw them far enough into the barrel to achieve focus because the threaded part of the lens barrels were not long enough. They couldn't screw in far enough for those particular lenses BFL requirements. I discovered that on many M12 lenses the threads do not go all the way up the full length of the barrel and of course some lenses don't have very long barrels, so now when I consider an alternative lens for a camera that's one of the first things I look for.

The basic (installation) specs to look for when shopping for a lens are BFL, (back focal length) MBF (minimum back focus), and lens thread depth. These specs work in concert with the module's threaded lens barrel. Obviously the specific size sensor and all the other specs are important to know but the BFL, MBF and thread depth are the specs you need to know regarding whether the lens can even be installed and focused. This is critical. If these numbers are not right, look elsewhere for an appropriate lens to fit your camera; there are literally hundreds of lenses to chose from. The way I see it, if the specialized lens you purchased requires you to permanently alter the housing of the camera, then you've probably chosen the wrong lens. Obviously, if this happens to be the only lens that will achieve the desired results, that's another story.

Treeye and Peau Productions are two examples of professional lens vendors who go out of their way to provide buyers with everything they need to know before purchase so that you end up with a compatible lens that will meet your requirements.
Peau Productions, as an action camera specialist even goes to the trouble of categorizing many of their lens offings according to their compatibility to specific cameras and like Treeye they publish all available lens specifications.

Here for example, is the information Treeye provides for the 6mm ƒ/1.2 Starlight telephoto lens. Not only do they provide all the necessary specifications to know if the lens meets your requirements they also provide a technical drawing of the lens so you know the exact physical measurements of the lens. This way you you know the thread depth on the lens along with everything else about how it will fit your camera before purchasing.

specs.jpg

I've labeled the required fitting specs in blue.
technical.jpg
 
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OK, I've reclaimed the IR filter from the filter assembly and glued it onto my F1.2 lens. Appears to hold well enough.

GluedIRFilter.jpg
 
Looks good! That lens has a nice big lip around the rear lens element which apparently makes this particular lens easier to work with than certain other ones. The 6mm ƒ/1.2 for example leaves much less room for error. (accidentally getting some cement on the rear glass)
 
Filter operates as expected. Colors are "normal". Looks like my gluing job was good enough, no adhesive in the optical path.

FilteredF12.jpg
 
I glued one of my filters from Amazon to the 6mm lens with the GE silicone and let it cure overnight under a lamp to make it a little warmer, and left it recording all day today, and the image is perfect
 

Thanks, that's helpful information.

I've been reading up about silicone caulking compounds and from what I understand, even if this product didn't show any immediate damage to the lens coatings or the IR-cut filter coating it still might fog a lens or filter over time because of outgassings, especially inside the enclosed space of a lens module. These outgassings apparently will continue for quite some time after the product has cured and hardened.

So, I hope using this stuff works out fine in the long run but please report back if anything adverse happens.
 
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I've been reading up about silicone caulking compounds and from what I understand, even if this product didn't show any immediate damage to the lens coatings or the IR-cut filter coating it still might fog a lens or filter over time because of outgassings, especially inside the enclosed space of a lens module. These outgassings apparently will continue for quite some time after the product has cured and hardened.
.

related but unrelated, Blackvue had a similar problem with the old DR400 where the lens would gradually fog up over time, would take a year or two but they would get real bad after some time and you'd have to pull them apart and clean the foggy residue off the back of the IR filter, so common there is even a how-to video

 
related but unrelated, Blackvue had a similar problem with the old DR400 where the lens would gradually fog up over time, would take a year or two but they would get real bad after some time and you'd have to pull them apart and clean the foggy residue off the back of the IR filter, so common there is even a how-to video


Interesting video! I noticed the fellow speculates that there may be silicone inside there. It's my understanding that silicone can out-gas chemicals such as formaldehyde, ammonia and a few other nasty things. One thing I read was that the ourgassings can damage electronics and rubber (especially neoprene) as well as coated glass surfaces.

One thing about that video that made me wince was watching the guy use dry lens paper to aggressively clean the dichro filter. And he really, really grinds it in there! And he didn't bother to blow off any potential dust particles either so any contaminants that got onto the filter would also just get ground into the delicate coated surface. Only later when this guy realizes that the filter isn't getting clean does he try some alcohol. Too late! That IR filter may already have been damaged beyond repair with minute swirl marks and scratches. NEVER EVER clean a dry lens or optical surface like that folks! And be gentle, don't ever clean an optical surface so aggressively. The same goes for cleaning CMOS sensors, perhaps even more so. If you know anything about the proper way to clean delicate optics, this a hard video to watch! JEEZ! And the guy even starts out talking about being careful to not scratch the lens.

Anyway, @jokiin, do you know if it was determined what actually caused the Blackvue IR filter fogging? Certainly, it's the same kind of potential issue I'm concerned about with using silcone caulking as a lens cement.


BTW, here is the Silcone II Window and Door Sealant Data Sheet https://www.builditsolar.com/References/Caulks/Silicone II Window & Door - TDS[1].pdf
 
Thanks, that's helpful information.

I've been reading up about silicone caulking compounds and from what I understand, even if this product didn't show any immediate damage to the lens coatings or the IR-cut filter coating it still might fog a lens or filter over time because of outgassings, especially inside the enclosed space of a lens module. These outgassings apparently will continue for quite some time after the product has cured and hardened.

So, I hope using this stuff works out fine in the long run but please report back if anything adverse happens.

OK, I think it would happen quickly because of how hot the Mobius gets
 
Interesting video! I noticed the fellow speculates that there may be silicone inside there. It's my understanding that silicone can out-gas chemicals such as formaldehyde, ammonia and a few other nasty things. One thing I read was that the ourgassings can damage electronics and rubber (especially neoprene) as well as coated glass surfaces.

One thing about that video that made me wince was watching the guy use dry lens paper to aggressively clean the dichro filter. And he really, really grinds it in there! And he didn't bother to blow off any potential dust particles either so any contaminants that got onto the filter would also just get ground into the delicate coated surface. Only later when this guy realizes that the filter isn't getting clean does he try some alcohol. Too late! That IR filter may already have been damaged beyond repair with minute swirl marks and scratches. NEVER EVER clean a dry lens or optical surface like that folks! And be gentle, don't ever clean an optical surface so aggressively. The same goes for cleaning CMOS sensors, perhaps even more so. If you know anything about the proper way to clean delicate optics, this a hard video to watch! JEEZ! And the guy even starts out talking about being careful to not scratch the lens.

Anyway, @jokiin, do you know if it was determined what actually caused the Blackvue IR filter fogging? Certainly, it's the same kind of potential issue I'm concerned about with using silcone caulking as a lens cement.


BTW, here is the Silcone II Window and Door Sealant Data Sheet https://www.builditsolar.com/References/Caulks/Silicone II Window & Door - TDS[1].pdf

I'm not sure I would even use alcohol because isopropyl is acidic and ethanol is basic, so they could corrode a delicate coating. I use a spray bottle full of distilled water for cleaning my camera lenses. I also have a sensor cleaning kit that I've used many times on my Sony DSLRs and I think the liquid they provide is distilled water
 
Anyway, @jokiin, do you know if it was determined what actually caused the Blackvue IR filter fogging? Certainly, it's the same kind of potential issue I'm concerned about with using silcone caulking as a lens cement.

I believe the problem is to do with adhesive outgassing, had never really given a lot of thought about where it was originating from but given where it occurs and the fact that it can be cleaned off I guess it is quite possible it's the adhesive used on the IR filter that was the culprit, if it was from something used on the internal lens elements then the fog would end up trapped inside, only other possibility to cause a problem in that space would be from the CMOS sensor but don't know if there's anything used in the manufacturer of a sensor which could cause this, not even sure what hardware they used on these
 
I'm not sure I would even use alcohol because isopropyl is acidic and ethanol is basic, so they could corrode a delicate coating. I use a spray bottle full of distilled water for cleaning my camera lenses. I also have a sensor cleaning kit that I've used many times on my Sony DSLRs and I think the liquid they provide is distilled water

I agree completely about not using isopropyl alcohol on optics. I highly recommend a product called ROR Mist (Residual Oil Remover). I've been using it exclusively for almost 25 years since it was first introduced and I will use nothing else on fine optical surfaces. It's the best optical cleaning fluid you can buy.

http://www.ror.net/

ror.jpg
 
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