SG9663DR update

I
i wasn't trying to say you're wrong, just that considering how many other off-the-shelf parts they used to get the model S built quicker (ie: mercedes switches on the column), it would make sense to use a battery that's readily available. i figured they would continue to do some of the same for the model 3 to drive its cost down, and to make it easier to service.

that said, i had to search a bit, but i finally found a chart that lists the actual Ah rating of a normal car battery: http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/content/CanadianTire/BatteriesSpecSheet_Automotive15314_ENpdf

according to that, a typical group 51 battery can range from 35-45 Ah capacity. physically, the group 51 is indeed 30-50% smaller than a "typical" car battery. conveniently, that chart also lists physical dimensions in inches. FYI - the only difference between a 51 and a 51R is that the polarity is swapped so that (-) is on the left for one of them, and it's on the right for the other. the group 24 i mentioned is rated around 70Ah, which just happens to align almost perfectly with your stated 30-50% size difference.

also on that list is the mazda miata, which had its own custom battery from 1989-2006 (it vented externally since it was mounted in the trunk) and is even smaller than the group 51, and has a measly 26Ah rating, yet people run low current stuff from those while parked as well. i didn't have much more than just a stereo and clock in my 97 miata, but the only time i ever had a dead battery was when i left my lights on by mistake. and then i had to learn how to push-start a car. that was real fun...

another thing is that for things to work while the car is parked (ie: remote door locks) it has to get power from somewhere, and that's typically the 12v system. no, i haven't seen a wiring diagram for a tesla yet (has anyone who doesn't work at tesla?), but it wouldn't make sense to keep the inverters powered up and use up range from the traction battery just to listen for door lock signals or to store settings in nvram (radio presets, wifi settings, whatever). obviously i could be way wrong, but then why would they even need the 12v battery at all? they could just use a simple step down transformer and sip from the traction battery to power any 12v systems (12v accessory sockets, radio, wiper motor, whatever). but based on what i've seen in toyota hybrids, the 12v system is pretty much completely independant of the 300v hybrid system - it just uses the inverter to step down to 12v to run those systems when the car is on, since there's no alternator, and you'll still need those 12v items while the engine is stopped.

no, it's not always easy to run wires through the firewall, but if the manufacturer did it, then so can anyone else. just depends on how much you're willing to take stuff apart, or to just poke holes in existing wiring grommets to sneak your wires alongside factory stuff. when i was a mechanic, i installed a LOT of alarms, stereo systems, DVDs (headrest and overhead), exterior lighting, etc... i've had to drill through plenty of metal to run wires, so it doesn't scare me anymore.

i'm not trying to argue. just saying that nothing is impossible. it might not be EASY - definitely can't argue that, but impossible is a strong word.

It's not impossible, it is NOT EASY, and the other shoe is that a lot of people have reported their 12V batteries die when they hooked up dashcams to the battery, and it's not due to a lack of discharge prevention devices, nor could the batteries could be revived like in normal cars after deep discharge. Tesla had to replace the battery.

I looked at a bunch of disassembly videos on youtube for Model 3 and I saw how the electrical system is setup. Anyway, parking mode in Model 3 running off the 12V car battery wouldn't be so scary if for the simple fact that you risk killing the battery and fking up your day by having to have it towed to a SC to get a battery replaced. I doubt those batteries are easy to find...
 
Hmm... Buy a Tesla battery pack from Rich Rebuilds or somewhere, then use 2 (or parallel a bunch in pairs) of the 18650 cells from that pack to make your dashcam's parking battery. Then you can honestly say your dashcam is powered by Tesla lol
 
Hmm... Buy a Tesla battery pack from Rich Rebuilds or somewhere, then use 2 (or parallel a bunch in pairs) of the 18650 cells from that pack to make your dashcam's parking battery. Then you can honestly say your dashcam is powered by Tesla lol

And why would I need to say my dashcam is powered by Tesla?
 
kandrey, did someone steal your funny-bone? Gibson was joking. Note the "lol" at the end of his comment. You took it too seriously.

Owners of Tesla's, as so far that I have seen, are very, how do it say fanboy by not saying fanboy? Having a dashcam powered by only Tesla parts (in this case the 18650 cells), keeps their car even more stock. They are already adding a non Tesla dashcam so adding a non Tesla battery is something more taboo. Now, there are some out there that dont think this way, but I have seen only a couple (I only have youtube for this confirmation as the few people i know locally that own them are the 'fanboy' type. Its Tesla or nothing. If they cannot buy it at the Tesla shop, they do not buy it.
 
kandrey, did someone steal your funny-bone? Gibson was joking. Note the "lol" at the end of his comment. You took it too seriously.

Owners of Tesla's, as so far that I have seen, are very, how do it say fanboy by not saying fanboy? Having a dashcam powered by only Tesla parts (in this case the 18650 cells), keeps their car even more stock. They are already adding a non Tesla dashcam so adding a non Tesla battery is something more taboo. Now, there are some out there that dont think this way, but I have seen only a couple (I only have youtube for this confirmation as the few people i know locally that own them are the 'fanboy' type. Its Tesla or nothing. If they cannot buy it at the Tesla shop, they do not buy it.

He was LOLing at his own joke at the expense of calling all Tesla owners fanboys.
 
He was LOLing at his own joke at the expense of calling all Tesla owners fanboys.
If anything I'm somewhat of a Tesla fanboy (and Musk's businesses in general, to some extent - I am currently interviewing for a position at SpaceX in McGregor, TX) and I don't even own a Tesla. Can't afford it yet. I was considering buying one of the 2012-2014 Toyota Rav4 EVs, since they have the same drive train as the early model S, and I like how my current rav4 (same body style, just older) drives and has plenty of room. Main hang-up is the range is on the low side - only about 100 miles, and no fast charging without a rather expensive mod ("JdeMo" kit, which lets you charge at any chademo station). In a city the size of Houston, it's easy to drive over 100 miles in a day, sometimes unexpectedly, so not really a good fit for me even if I do charge daily at home. For most of my driving it would actually be just fine; it's those unexpected trips, where my wife's car may be in use already and I can't go swap with her very easily. And if I get the job at SpaceX, I'd be moving to a more rural area where it would be even less practical. That said, I did notice that there was a Tesla charging station (not a supercharger, probably level 2) in the parking lot at SpaceX, with two model 3s hooked up. Wasn't really a surprise, but still nice to see. Of course, even with the JdeMo kit, I wouldn't be able to use the Tesla chargers. It'll be nice if the world can settle on one or maybe two charger types, kinda like there are 2 main fuel types today. It's beta vs VHS all over again...

Anyway... Just take a step back and calm down. Nobody is attacking you. The whole "powered by" thing is a very old joke in the car scene. For a while people were putting stickers on their car that said stuff like "powered by Honda" or "powered by VTEC"... Then there were parodies of those... "Powered by dinosaur juice", "powered by pot", "powered by (Calvin peeing)", etc... And then my sad attempt at a joke: the absurdity of a dashcam being powered by Tesla.

It was actually a semi serious suggestion, as any 18650 cells would work to run most any dashcam in parking mode for a while. It would just require some clever circuitry (which you'd likely have to design and build) to charge the batteries and run the camera when the car is on, then switch the camera's power to draw from the 18650s when it's off. I could probably experiment and come up with something myself, but I have no need, and there are already other commercially available batteries like the cell-link specifically made for this purpose.
 
cell-link

Now we're back on topic. I was in fact considering designing my own controller to charge 18650 batteries when car is on and powering dashcam when car is off with an intelligent failover switch. But I haven't had time and interested slowly faded.
The main reason for designing my own was not because so much of cost, but from fear of bad batteries causing fire and since I run other equipment like scanners, radars, detectors, etc I felt like I could build something for myself.

Basically, loosing Model 3 due to a bad battery that powered a dashcam that caught fire would be like, I can't even make up a good analogy, it's that stupid...
 
Then a case could be made to actually seek out and use Tesla's 18650 cells for that project, as they're very good quality cells from Panasonic. I guess they have to be good to be able to charge that fast, and then discharge even faster for things like ludicrous mode :D

I don't know enough about the new cells they're using in the model 3, just that they're a bit more compact resulting in higher energy density, which is a good thing for an EV. Either less space and weight or more range in the same space - win/win
 
Then a case could be made to actually seek out and use Tesla's 18650 cells for that project, as they're very good quality cells from Panasonic. I guess they have to be good to be able to charge that fast, and then discharge even faster for things like ludicrous mode :D

I don't know enough about the new cells they're using in the model 3, just that they're a bit more compact resulting in higher energy density, which is a good thing for an EV. Either less space and weight or more range in the same space - win/win

The new Tesla '2170' battery cell is actually bigger than the ‘18650’ cell format it replaces, not more compact. It's thicker and taller - 21mm x 70 mm vs 18mm x 65mm.

2170b.jpg

217_18650jpg.jpg

2170.jpg
 
And you can already get flashlights that use the Tesla sized 2170 batteries.
 
Santa brought me a Viofo A129Duo, so given my next purchase will likely be a Uniden R7.

My next dashcam, if I want one, will be late this year. Still interested in how the market responds, lots of news with 4ch and 4k gaining traction.
 
4k is still a challenge to deal with the amount of heat they generate, 4 channel solutions are coming but the challenge for those is trying to develop side cameras that are as universal as possible, not an easy task, it will all happen eventually I'm sure
 
You’re building support for an extra 2 channels into the DR, right @jokiin ;)
 
I work in the image sensor industry and let me tell you, with the pixel pitch, low light conditions in the dark, 2K resolution is the highest I would purchase. 4K might look slightly better during the day with full sun out (assuming excellent lens) but at night it'll just all be blacked out.
The higher the pixel density the lower the light gathering ability of the pixel and at night it's important.

In fact, if jokiin released this DR main unit and had an optional sensor that had 3-5um pixel pitch, that's the sensor I'd buy, even if it was 1080p.
 
we are looking at larger pixel options but right now getting the right lens is what is holding things back
 
Back
Top