Viofo A119 M2 HDR poor vs old A119 v1 WDR (low light/day)

[speedingcheetah]

Thought the new A119 Mini2, be the latest and greatest fancy sensor was superior with HDR and all that.....

So why does it look darker, much more Nosie and just crappy compared to my old and very well used A119 V1 that has "WDR"?

I also notice the A119M2 switches between this grainy noisey picture, to a softer but much less noise image, then back again... it was lightly raining and a the wipes moving across would trigger the change. Mainly noticeable in the clouds.

EDIT: To anyone reading this later on, HDR in dash cams is new to me, and i did not know that HDR is to be used when it is fully DARK out.
This low level/rainy scenario is kinda an in-between time where both HDR and non HDR the image is not going to be ideal.
VIOFO and many other here, strongly recommend to use the HDR timer feature, to turn on HDR after it is fully dark out, and off, just after sunrise, for best results.
DO NOT used HDR during the day time/sunlight.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Here is also 2 more compares. HDR just looks worse.

EDIT/UPDATE: see my re-test, when it was fully dark out. HDR is better!

Viofo A119 M2 HDR poor vs old A119 v1 WDR (low light/day)

Now that I have two A119 Mini 2 dash cameras with the updated lens, I'll finally be able to complete my A119 Mini 2 review. I will gather "HDR On" vs "HDR Off" day/night footage since I have two of them that I can run at the same time. I just need to get through my testing of the A229 Pro /...

dashcamtalk.com

 

[Agie]

Gen

Here is also 2 more compares. HDR just looks worse.

View attachment 67826

View attachment 67827

General rule of thumb is to set the HDR timer to turn the HDR to come on at night, and during the day the HDR should be off...

 

[speedingcheetah]

Gen
General rule of thumb is to set the HDR timer to turn the HDR to come on at night, and during the day the HDR should be off...

It is quite dark (not night dark but still) and gloomy out during this test. And the old v1 did better with its "WDR" making it look much brighter out.

 

[Panzer Platform]

Under these lighting conditions HDR should be OFF.
You'll get the best performance out of the A119 Mini 2 using HDR one hour after sunset, (complete darkness).
What firmware is the Mini 2 on?
Do you have a CPL Filter on the Mini 2?
Do you have a tinted windshield?
Do you have the Bitrate set to HIGH?
Can you retest one hour after sunset?
Can you retest during daytime, (around noon)?
Can you upload the original raw 1 minute clips to YouTube?

 

[Kremmen]

I'm not surprised

On my V3 I've tried almost all versions of 2.x firmware, which incorporated HDR, but I kept going back to 1.x firmware that incorporated WDR as it was clearer, but I have WDR turned off.

In my case though I drive 99% in daylight so HDR is not needed.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Gen
General rule of thumb is to set the HDR timer to turn the HDR to come on at night, and during the day the HDR should be off...

Under these lighting conditions HDR should be OFF.
You'll get the best performance out of the A119 Mini 2 using HDR one hour after sunset, (complete darkness).
What firmware is the Mini 2 on?
Do you have a CPL Filter on the Mini 2?
Do you have a tinted windshield?
Do you have the Bitrate set to HIGH?
Can you retest one hour after sunset?
Can you retest during daytime, (around noon)?
Can you upload the original raw 1 minute clips to YouTube?

I see. They really should have called it "Night Mode" or something then.... as HDR is always on for my phones camera, and on my tv etc.
I guess not the same thing?
Also, it not the HDR for movies as the files are not showing as HDR REC.2020 with any luminance Peak values, but still are REC.709 SDR files.

Current firmware as listed on their site V1.0_20230912

Yes, CPL. Is that bad for Night time? I have never removed the CPL from the V1 and it does ok at night. It not practical to have to keep reemove it and putting it back on...

No tint on windshield (that is illegal here)
High bitrate.

Will do some more testing when i can, the weather been poor lately.

I have not messed with dash cams since late 2016 or so... the A119 V1 i use for front cam, and the Mini 0826 i use for rear cam, been fine fine for years.
However, after encountering a wrong way driver on the main hwy the other day while on the way home, at night, in the rain, wanted to get something with better night vision.

 

[Nigel]

So why does it look darker, much more Nosie and just crappy compared to my old and very well used A119 V1 that has "WDR"?

The darker image makes room for the HDR to put more detail in the bright areas such as the bright windows on the building, and reflective plates if you had your headlamps illuminating any.

The noise in the sky appears to be rain drops, which the Mini 2 can see but the A119 is failing to see.

I also notice the A119M2 switches between this grainy noisey picture, to a softer but much less noise image, then back again... it was lightly raining and a the wipes moving across would trigger the change. Mainly noticeable in the clouds.

The wipers remove the rain off the windscreen, the Mini 2 can see this rain, so removing it reduces this "noise", but the A119 V1is not seeing it, so the wipers removing it makes little difference!

Your Mini2 appears to have a better focused lens, allowing it to see more detail of the rain on the windscreen as well as outside, but it also has better focus because it has a wider field of view, thus a greater depth of field. The wider lens also slightly reduces the detail on distant writing.

To me, the Mini 2 image looks the better image, although it is a little darker than I would like. Maybe turning the brightness of your monitor up would help you see the detail in the darker areas? Or alternatively view the video at night in a darkish room.

Also, it not the HDR for movies as the files are not showing as HDR REC.2020 with any luminance Peak values, but still are REC.709 SDR files.

For compatibility reasons, old H264 REC.709 is better; many people still can't view REC.2020 files. It would look better, and more realistic if you did view it as REC2020 though.

Here is some video from my A139 Pro HDR uploaded to Youtube as REC.2020 rather than the original REC.709:
(View in Youtube App if on your phone)

 

[Agie]

I see. They really should have called it "Night Mode" or something then.... as HDR is always on for my phones camera, and on my tv etc.
I guess not the same thing?
Also, it not the HDR for movies as the files are not showing as HDR REC.2020 with any luminance Peak values, but still are REC.709 SDR files.

Current firmware as listed on their site V1.0_20230912

Yes, CPL. Is that bad for Night time? I have never removed the CPL from the V1 and it does ok at night. It not practical to have to keep reemove it and putting it back on...

No tint on windshield (that is illegal here)
High bitrate.

Will do some more testing when i can, the weather been poor lately.

I have not messed with dash cams since late 2016 or so... the A119 V1 i use for front cam, and the Mini 0826 i use for rear cam, been fine fine for years.
However, after encountering a wrong way driver on the main hwy the other day while on the way home, at night, in the rain, wanted to get something with better night vision.

True considering most people replace their TVs every few years, and with TVs getting HDR left right and centre - as you said, it's Rec 709 not 2020 so not sure it's that useful on a tv to watch if it was. It's not a movie where we want the whites to be brighter and colours to be popping. We just want details of the licence plate and the accident/incident happening.

 

[DoubleDawg]

To me, the Mini 2 image looks the better image, although it is a little darker than I would like. Maybe turning the brightness of your monitor up would help you see the detail in the darker areas? Or alternatively view the video at night in a darkish room.

Or maybe increase the exposure setting to add brightness to the scene.

 

[gse]

Or maybe increase the exposure setting to add brightness to the scene.

The default exposure of 0.0 is great for day and night video.

 

[Karagandinez]

Probably it all depends on people's tastes....
On all my models I set EV=-0.3.
Great for day and night.

 

[speedingcheetah]

The noise in the sky appears to be rain drops, which the Mini 2 can see but the A119 is failing to see.

lol. No. Not referring to the rain drops. The whole frame shifts to a Nosie mess then back again. The sky is distorted then not. The clouds look like there is a bunch of tiny black specs in them, then it goes away, not at all what it supposes to look like. For sure is NOISE. Both images from the A119M2 couple frames apart. HDR processing for sure is just wonky. But, i guess it not dark enough, so that is why.

 

[Dex_]

It is looks like a different types of frames in H.26x encoder - I-frames vs P-frames vs B-frames

 

[speedingcheetah]

Pretty much every youtube review or comparison, they have HDR on all the time, even during the day....

 

[Panzer Platform]

These are the only “good” Mini 2 reviews.
Everyone else is “Home Shopping Network / QVC”.

Keep your eyes peeled for Robert’s aka @rcg530 review;

https://www.youtube.com/@RetroCarGuy530

Updated 10/22/23

 

[speedingcheetah]

These are the only “good” Mini 2 reviews.
Everyone else is “Home Shopping Network / QVC”.

Keep your eyes peeled for Robert’s aka @rcg530 review;

https://www.youtube.com/@RetroCarGuy530

And... all of those showcase HDR ON in most if not all of its sample daytime videos..... No one seems to do a side by side HDR on/off compares.
I have only been able to do more daytime tests, in non HDR mode, in partly cloudy conditions, before it turned very cloudy and rainy. Won't be getting any bright sunny days until the weekend it seems.
Hope to try some night tests soon. But, Having seen the smoothness of 60fps, HDR would have to make a dramatic positive effect for me to want to enable it at night.

Hey Vifo, how come "Turn on/off HDR" is not a Voice Command? That would make it super easy to be able to toggle it. And not have to fiddle with the menus.

 

[Panzer Platform]

No one seems to do a side by side HDR on/off compares

You're in luck.
My other friend Robert just published this video an hour ago.

 

[rcg530]

Now that I have two A119 Mini 2 dash cameras with the updated lens, I'll finally be able to complete my A119 Mini 2 review. I will gather "HDR On" vs "HDR Off" day/night footage since I have two of them that I can run at the same time. I just need to get through my testing of the A229 Pro / A229 Plus dash cameras.

 

[speedingcheetah]

You're in luck.
My other friend Robert just published this video an hour ago.

Nice. That does help a bit. Looks like seem to have a improvement at night, but it is marginal overall....certain cases it helps, but not a drastic help.

But have to ask, is he using a CPL Filter?

60fps mode is higher compression? My files show around 26.6- 33Mb/s for bitrate on both 30fps and 60fps, HDR or non hdr.

Gonna try it for myslef when i can, see what i prefer.