Viofo A139 pro // router plus sim-card instead of external Wifi-antennas

[acters]

or the dashcam designers could lift their game add a feature like this Mirror Dashcam - SSD storage.
This is a very interesting Mirror dashcam.

Rydeen Tombo 360X Mirror Dash Cam 360° VIEW​

Neat, my location would cook the SSD before it has a chance to pay itself off plus no airflow. Seems like a marketing play here. A Hard Disk Drive would last longer and would be perfectly suitable for saving video recording. Unfortunately this also seems to have terrible video quality, which is why I purchased the A139 pro. My area has little to no lights, no street lamps, and has mandated lights off times. This camera will unfortunately not work as most break ins I had where at night.
I like EdSM's method of saving video with a secret hidden phone, it is possible to buy something like this for hooking up an external usb Hard drive and keep the phone charged when capturing from wifi station mode:

 

[LateralNW]

The app I use does not require cloud subscription or internet access.

Are you using the A139?
Are you connecting to the cloud via a dashcam with internal LTE?
The A139 doesn't have the ability to do LTE internally.
I was referring to some dashcam's that do have LTE built in.

Third party workarounds
Workarounds are not ideal for the average dashcam user. They like to set and forget.

secret hiding spot of the hard drive (for data transmission the cable cannot be verry long). And maybe the fact that no camera has the dynamic range

I just noticed you edited your original post I replied to and it wasn't for spelling errors. Not very sportsman of you.
Define very long?
Dynamic range ? What are you referring to?

 

[EdSM]

Are you using the A139?
Are you connecting to the cloud via a dashcam with internal LTE?
The A139 doesn't have the ability to do LTE internally.
I was referring to some dashcam's that do have LTE built in.

Yes I use the A139.
No I do not depend on cloud access. I use an app that connects my phone to the camera, records its video stream and detects people in it.

Dynamic range ? What are you referring to?

You see much better bright lights and darker spots in the same scene than a camera. Which is why a rear-view mirror will show you who is following you at night while a screen is likely to be less helpful.

What Is Dynamic Range in Photography?

In photography, the "dynamic range" is the difference between the darkest and lightest tones in an image, generally pure black and pure white.

www.howtogeek.com

 

[LateralNW]

Neat, my location would cook the SSD before it has a chance to pay itself off plus no airflow. Seems like a marketing play here. A Hard Disk Drive would last longer and would be perfectly suitable for saving video recording. Unfortunately this also seems to have terrible video quality, which is why I purchased the A139 pro. My area has little to no lights, no street lamps, and has mandated lights off times. This camera will unfortunately not work as most break ins I had where at night.
I like EdSM's method of saving video with a secret hidden phone, it is possible to buy something like this for hooking up an external usb Hard drive and keep the phone charged when capturing from wifi station mode:

I think you may have missed my point.
I'm not suggestion the mirror dashcam is the answer to everyone, far from it. The ssd idea I liked and that was really the only point I was showing as an alternative to workarounds. (Hard disk or ssd and even dashcams all have temperature limits so that tends to cancel that out.)

I have used mobile phones for CCTV type of setups. One is a burner phone basically but it reports on what is going on around its area. It's not a long term solution but it was useful in the sort term.

The A139 Pro from all reports is a very good video quality dashcam and viofo does step up to help when any problems turn up so I have no argument with you on that.

If you want to go down the path of workarounds fitting microwave detectors could alert you when anyone is near the car reducing the false positives.

I have been looking into microwave as a solution for me. Only trigger the dashcam when it detects human movement.

 

[acters]

I think you may have missed my point.
I'm not suggestion the mirror dashcam is the answer to everyone, far from it. The ssd idea I liked and that was really the only point I was showing as an alternative to workarounds. (Hard disk or ssd and even dashcams all have temperature limits so that tends to cancel that out.)

I have used mobile phones for CCTV type of setups. One is a burner phone basically but it reports on what is going on around its area. It's not a long term solution but it was useful in the sort term.

The A139 Pro from all reports is a very good video quality dashcam and viofo does step up to help when any problems turn up so I have no argument with you on that.

If you want to go down the path of workarounds fitting microwave detectors could alert you when anyone is near the car reducing the false positives.

I have been looking into microwave as a solution for me. Only trigger the dashcam when it detects human movement.

oh, my bad, I do wish there was more connectivity options for more versatility. I have a sneaking suspicion that there are backroom dealings for these SD card companies to remain dominant in the Dash cam market. There is many reason to include USB storage as a backup medium. yet there is no way to have other storage mediums aside from an SD card. Without an SD card, there is no way for the Dash cam to record anything. Plus there isn't a way to emulate an SD card. It is so odd and all I can think of is money grab being the main culprit. Oh well I guess I have to spend my hard earned cash on some of these expensive endurance graded SD cards because the SD card is literally housed in a hot box.

Yes, I wish there was a better way to detect when to record for parking mode, but Auto event detection is good enough. Time lapse recording is decent enough, no audio though...

 

[Dashmellow]

We been talking about the desire for SSD drives for dash cams here on the forum for years but so far it just hasn't happened. My understanding from previous discussions is that it has less to do with SD cards and more to do with the nature of the SoC processors that dash cams run on. They simply don't have an interface that can easily support connecting an SSD drive.

The specs for the Rydeen Tombo 360X Mirror Dash Cam 360° VIEW don't mention what processor that camera uses but they do mention that the camera is programmed with Linux which seems to offer a hint of how they've been able to do this. Previously, I've only known of one action/dash camera that ran on Linux (the M2 Mobius) and it was not successful but this one seems to have a number of interesting, unique features. Of course, for 600 bucks it had better!
BTW, according the the Rydeen web site the SSD apparently only works after ACC is off, so all that memory is strictly for extended parking or offloading if I understand correctly. I assume it needs an alternate power supply although maybe it works differently when hard wired. ("Contnuous Power to 2nd Memory Drive (SSD) after ACC is off")


Specifications


Basic Parameters

• Video Input (backup camera): AHD
• 
  
• System Language: English, Japanese, French, Spanish
• 
  
• Screen Dimensions: 9.55 inches
• 
  
• Touch Screen Type: Resistive
• 
  
• Front Camera: 1920*1920/ H360°/27.5 fps
• 
  
• Audio Line-Out: Built-in 8Ω/ 2W speaker* 1 for audio/voice playback
• 
  
• Audio Power (Internal): 4Q2W
• 
  
• Power Supply Voltage: DC 9V to 24V
• 
  
• Rated Current: 600mA
• 
  
• Super Capacitor Size: 8.5*17*32MM
• 
  
• System: Linux
• 
  
• Storage: Built-in Micro-SD slot, External backup SSD
• 
  
• Operational Temperature: -10℃~ +60℃
• 
  
• Storage Temperature: -30℃~ +70℃
• 
  
• Operational Humidity: 45%~80%RH
• 
  
• Storage Humidity: 30%~90%RH

GPS Hardware Parameters

• 
  
• Date Update Rate: 1Hz
• 
  
• Warm Startup Time: 1 Sec (average)
• 
  
• Cold Startup Time: <33 Sec (average)
• 
  
• Maximum Speed Rate: <280 m/s
• 
  
• GPS Antenna Gain: 30dB
• 
  
• Power Voltage: 3.3V

 

[acters]

We been talking about the desire for SSD drives for dash cams here on the forum for years but so far it just hasn't happened. My understanding from previous discussions is that it has less to do with SD cards and more to do with the nature of the SoC processors that dash cams run on. They simply don't have an interface that can support connecting an SSD drive.

The specs for the Rydeen Tombo 360X Mirror Dash Cam 360° VIEW don't mention what processor that camera uses but they do mention that the camera is programmed with Linux which seems to offer a hint of how they've been able to do this. Previously, I've only known of one action/dash camera that ran on Linux and it was not successful but this one seems to have a number of interesting, unique features. Of course, for 600 bucks it had better!
BTW, according the the Rydeen web site the SSD apparently only works after ACC is off, so all that memory is strictly for extended parking if I understand correctly. I assume it needs an alternate power supply although maybe it works differently when hard wired. ("Power to 2nd Memory Drive (SSD) after ACC is off")


Specifications


Basic Parameters

• Video Input (backup camera): AHD
• 
  
• System Language: English, Japanese, French, Spanish
• 
  
• Screen Dimensions: 9.55 inches
• 
  
• Touch Screen Type: Resistive
• 
  
• Front Camera: 1920*1920/ H360°/27.5 fps
• 
  
• Audio Line-Out: Built-in 8Ω/ 2W speaker* 1 for audio/voice playback
• 
  
• Audio Power (Internal): 4Q2W
• 
  
• Power Supply Voltage: DC 9V to 24V
• 
  
• Rated Current: 600mA
• 
  
• Super Capacitor Size: 8.5*17*32MM
• 
  
• System: Linux
• 
  
• Storage: Built-in Micro-SD slot, External backup SSD
• 
  
• Operational Temperature: -10℃~ +60℃
• 
  
• Storage Temperature: -30℃~ +70℃
• 
  
• Operational Humidity: 45%~80%RH
• 
  
• Storage Humidity: 30%~90%RH

GPS Hardware Parameters

• 
  
• Date Update Rate: 1Hz
• 
  
• Warm Startup Time: 1 Sec (average)
• 
  
• Cold Startup Time: <33 Sec (average)
• 
  
• Maximum Speed Rate: <280 m/s
• 
  
• GPS Antenna Gain: 30dB
• 
  
• Power Voltage: 3.3V

That is some astute sleuthing!

My thoughts of having an adapter from the SD card slot to an SSD seems to be fruitless. It just seems extremely difficult to emulate a physical SD card.
I found Sandisks SD card and USB reader combo, part number SDSDPH-1024-902. Of course it can't do USB reading while the SD card part is plugged in.
There is WIFI SD cards. of course they are not reliable and will be killed faster than the endurance variants.
Lastly was the SD card MUX devices that allow you to switch SD cards electronically. this way you can pull the data off one of the SD cards, while the other one stays connected to the Dash cam. I hate this one because the SD card is still there, serving as a Proxy basically.
Wifi Station mode seems to be the only way to gain increased storage opportunities for cheap, and that is lackluster at best. The SD Card is still in use! I just can't find a way to get rid of the need for a dam SD Card. I hate this so much.
Ridiculous that no one has figured out a way to replace an SD card slot with anything else. Dam this world. i hate having such dumb random technology that should have been phased out already. I have to go into the car and remove the SD card and install another one every time I want to get the files off the dam thing. ridiculous waste of my life.

 

[EdSM]

You have the option to record your video footage straight to your phone or tablet. Just not in 4k

 

[acters]

You have the option to record your video footage straight to your phone or tablet. Just not in 4k

True, I like that option. My main gripe is having a different storage medium than an SD card for more versatility of the storage management. An SD card is a dummy Slave device that is incapable of being accessed by multiple devices. My wish is to have a method of extracting the max resolution and bitrate with an automated device for me to not have to walk into the vehicle and replace the SD card with a fresh one EVERY time. I have many family members I help manage their devices, and a dash cam was employed for their personal and vehicle's safety.
My current plan is to get a SD Card MUX device that can swap electronically two SD cards for offloading one while the other is connected for recording. Preferably do the switch once a day during parking mode times. This way I can off load all the data off an SD card and have it accessible via LTE while maintaining its availability in the vehicle for offline viewing, all the while increasing storage capacity and thereby the length of time capable of being stored for longer. Edit: of course this means the SD cards will still be used as a proxy of sorts. this way I will need to eventually replace the SD cards with new ones once in a while as they will be the "weakest link" meaning they will eventually die/run of out steam.

 

[Müller]

Hello EdSM.

EdSM: "[...] the option to record your video footage straight to your phone or tablet. Just not in 4k."

With the A139 in station-mode you can type the cam´s ip into the address-bar of a browser, then view and download the full-res files. Set a router with a sim between the A139 and the browser and you can do that from anywhere. For multiple cams.

 

[EdSM]

Hi Muller,

That's awesome, but you might want to automate that if you do it often. Or at least have a shortcut. Unless you really hate being lazy or shortcuts

 

[Müller]

Hello Ed,

i am confident the problem of bulk or time-scheduled/automated downloading will be solvable. Maybe that is doable via a simple browser-addon. I haven´t had the time yet to look out for such. Have to do a little bit for a living as we all have to. So upsetting as that is ... But what´s more important, there is a way out for the full res to every place on earth with cellular support.

Btw. the app recommended by you won´t play with my phone > Sonim XP8 ...

 

[EdSM]

That's a pity. I would think that all Androids work the same. I use a Samsung and an older Motorola

 

[acters]

Hello Ed,

i am confident the problem of bulk or time-scheduled/automated downloading will be solvable. Maybe that is doable via a simple browser-addon. I haven´t had the time yet to look out for such. Have to do a little bit for a living as we all have to. So upsetting as that is ... But what´s more important, there is a way out for the full res to every place on earth with cellular support.

Btw. the app recommended by you won´t play with my phone > Sonim XP8 ...

You can make a script using wget to retrieve the files. The biggest problem with this is that the files grow too fast to retrieve the files over wifi before the SD card fills up, and the temperature of the Dash cam goes up even more. Especially during long road trips.
An SD Card Mux is the only method for automation that I can think of to prevent an SD card from filling up too fast and the Dash cam from heating up, all the while retrieving the Max quality files. There is only one problem and that is the Dash cam will need to stop recording/turned off, when switching the SD Card with the Mux device. also the Mux will be sticking out of the SD card slot, unless you get an extension cable to hide the device in the car interior trim.

 

[Müller]

Hello acters.

acters: "[...] wget. The [...] problem with this is that the files grow too fast to retrieve the files over wifi before the SD card fills up [...]"

Uhh, there´s much to learn for me ... Oo!

On topic:

You are right with your prognosis:

1.) conditions: 5Ghz, 17di-sector-antenna placed in the driver´s cabin pointing directly to the cargo bay of the vehicle with a full-metal separating-plate between the driver´s cabin and the bay, all doors closed, wget downloading to a standard WIN10 laptop with only it´s internal pcb-antenna(s) with ping -t reporting 1ms with only few short jumps up to 5ms.

2.) 10 download passes of a 1min.-file show ~7,8MB/s max, with the fastest time of 65sec. and the slowest of 75sec.

 

[acters]

Hello acters.



Uhh, there´s much to learn for me ... Oo!

On topic:

You are right with your prognosis:

1.) conditions: 5Ghz, 17di-sector-antenna placed in the driver´s cabin pointing directly to the cargo bay of the vehicle with a full-metal separating-plate between the driver´s cabin and the bay, all doors closed, wget downloading to a standard WIN10 laptop with only it´s internal pcb-antenna(s) with ping -t reporting 1ms with only few short jumps up to 5ms.

2.) 10 download passes of a 1min.-file show ~7,8MB/s max, with the fastest time of 65sec. and the slowest of 75sec.

Tested with 1GB file sizes because I record at 3 min intervals. My router is in the room next to the garage with the door closed.(about 8 meters in length between router and camera)
My router reported a 234 Tx/ 390 Rx rate, which is in Megabits/sec. 7,48 MBytes/s is equivalent to 60 Mbits/s.

-Vehicle is on and recording at maximum bitrate. I was able to reach ~7,5 MB/s max 1%Lows of 5,83 MB/s and average of 6,2 MB/s.
- If I stop recording while the vehicle is on: I reach a max of 12,5 MB/s with 1% Lows of 12,1 MB/s and average of 12,2 MB/s. Same Rx/Tx rates.
- Downloading with the vehicle off, and no recording is occuring(parking mode is enabled with auto event detection): I receive max 11,9 MB/s 1%Lows 10,9 MB/s Average 11,2 MB/s

recording for 2CH system in Drive mode combining Front and Rear, the file creation rate of 6,95 MB/s or 55,6 Mb/s.
Front camera file is 5,4 MB/s == 41,12 Mb/s. Rear is 1,8 MB/s == 14,4 Mb/s
In parking Mode, Auto event detection makes 91,3 MB files for front and rear, each totaling 45 sec in length. ~2,03 MB/s == 16,24 Mb/s File rate of creation. Each Auto Event detection has the lowest consistent rate of detection of about 36 seconds for each recorded event detected between files created.

Auto Event detection is being tripped because of blinking lights in my garage lmao, I hate my life, time for some electrical tape "fixes"

 

[Müller]

Hello.

Trying card-download via two wget-instances only let´s the download-data amount per stream fall apart into ~1/2 of a single stream.

... while aria2 doesn´t support recursive downloads and the multiple sever-connections feature not helping in speeding up the download-process.



So there seems to be a bottleneck. Cam-hardware? My simple laptop/cam-wifi-connection without a dedicated router being involved? Hm ...

 

[acters]

Hello.

Trying card-download via two wget-instances only let´s the download-data amount per stream fall apart into ~1/2 of a single stream.

... while aria2 doesn´t support recursive downloads and the multiple sever-connections feature not helping in speeding up the download-process.

View attachment 64772

So there seems to be a bottleneck. Cam-hardware? My simple laptop/cam-wifi-connection without a dedicated router being involved? Hm ...

It is a limitation of the Wireless technology, likely a software limitation that happens due to how the hardware behaves.
The A139 Pro will no be able to receive any data when it is sending data, such as when a download occurs the A139 Pro is sending data for you to download.
When you make multiple connections, the download software sends multiple requests that the A139 Pro will only be able to receive one request as it sends the data for that one request.(for each file, this is an SD Card limitation)
You cannot use the multiple server connections feature because there is only one connection possible with the A139 Pro.(for each file, this is an SD Card limitation)
The A139 Pro only has one antenna active and the A139 Pro software will not listen while transmitting.
I am sorry for being a "party pooper" You will not be able to speed up the Wireless downloading capabilities in any meaningful modification or Software trickery.
Another limitation is the speed of the SD Card interface with the SD Card.
I was able to reach 12 MB/s download if the Card is not being written to at the same time. about 7,4 MB/s when it was writing at the same time.

 

[Müller]

Hello Acters.

acters: "When you make multiple connections [...] the A139 Pro will only be able to receive one request as it sends the data for that one request (for each file, [...]). You cannot use the multiple server connections feature because there is only one connection possible with the A139 Pro (for each file, [...]). The A139 Pro only has one antenna active and the A139 Pro software will not listen while transmitting."

I started the two wget-instances only ~2sec. apart. Both instances grabbed the same file. But data-amount per stream was ~1/2.



One corresponding file is created in the directory but the file is somehow corrupt (maybe of incorrect parameters?). VLC doesn´t play it, but without any error-message.



Because of this (behaviour) i wanted to give aria2 a go if it somehow might be superior to wget regarding that.

 

[kamkar]

Pretty much all the time, or almost all the time i have been into dashcams have a asked for another storage media.
But having that, and a large one, well you might want a few things to come with that.
1: A automated backup routine, so when you backup you only backup footage recorded after your last backup.
2: Means of backup, so this could be to a fast USB thumb drive, or also via the air to your home NAS or cloud service, personally i would prefer a USB thumb drive as really i dont use WIFI or other wireless technologies other than for controlling RC hobby things.

ATM i am mostly inclined to want a M2 drive, 2 TB would be sweet, and actually not cost that much. This if you get a newer gen 4 X 4 drive, would also have read / write speeds to support several 4K cameras in the system, for sure cooling a SOC that would handle that would be the biggest problem.
Bringing me to the remote cameras systems i favor, CUZ then your main unit can be as large as you need to accommodate a proper cooling solution, and really it could even be active cooling.