VIOFO WM1

[Scottyat2]

Nice to see a compact but I need HDR for nighttime parking mode. Heat dissipation problems will exist in the Viofo WM1 as it has been persistent in all Viofo dash cams. Basically, no one has manufactured a dash cam that can handle 200 degrees Fahrenheit or 93.3 Celsius. Also, BlackVue has the new DR970X LTE squeezing in LTE and 4K capability which is nice but due to heat dissipation issues and compact size will fail. Plastic melts and warps at high temperatures, electronic components not made to withstand or function in high temperatures. What needs to be done instead of making compact or condensed size dash cams is enlargement of dash cam housings like the Thinkware Q1000.

 

[Mtz]

A229 is big size to offer better cooling.
HDR processing is another process which can generate heat.

 

[Dashmellow]

What needs to be done instead of making compact or condensed size dash cams is enlargement of dash cam housings like the Thinkware Q1000.

I don't know that dash cams necessarily need to be less compact but as I've been saying for years, to be more resistant to high heat levels, dash cams need to be built to the standards of CCTV cameras which are usually made with cast aluminum housings, sometimes with integral heat dissipating fins and with the internal components mounted on thick cast aluminum heat sinks. CCTV cams operate 24/7 often in direct hot sunshine yet they are waterproof and often vandal proof and have zero ventilation, yet they endure extremes of high and low temperatures. CCTV cameras are made with many of the exact same sensors, chipsets and lenses as dash cams and many high quality models are in the same price range as dash cams.

Dash cams are built more like cheap consumer gadgets which is to say a circuit board screwed into a plastic housing, like a GameBoy. They should be built more like actual cameras, with a proper chassis and appropriate housing.

 

[Scottyat2]

Both the A119 V3 and the WM1 use the Sony IMX335 sensor but they have different processors so one may be capable of HDR and the other one not. The A119 V3 uses the Novatek NT96670 while the WM1 has the Novatek NTK96565.
The NTK96565 is apparently a lower priced product that may not have all the features of the NT96670.

The concept is to produce a product with specifications that appear to be great and advertising it to be the best new thing. If it Sounds too good to be true, then you are a fool for buying into it. Innovation occurs slowly and development takes years. Companies are gradually making improvements however it is one step forward and two steps backward. To give you something means they must take away a few things. No company is going to put all their goodies into one bag. This way they have you coming back. You as the consumer gets no deal. It is all about profits. Curiosity is your best friend and as with money easy come, easy go! So, don't spend all your hard-earned money on something you don't need.
Why is Viofo using an outdated component such as Novatek NTK96565 in a new product? It's about saving money by selling something old at a high price making it sound like new.

 

[Dashmellow]

Why is Viofo using an outdated component such as Novatek NTK96565 in a new product? It's about saving money by selling something old at a high price making it sound like new.

No, it's about Viofo selling a budget, entry level camera to round out their line of products.

Unlike many of the typical generic dash cams in this price range what you will get from Viofo is a well made, reliable product that comes with a good warranty and decent support.

This is similar to what they did with the A119 V3 which is also a budget entry level dash cam they introduced in 2019. It is on the top of the list as an "all around great camera" and is still one of the best values on the market today, as well as being one of the most reliable cams available. It doesn't have wifi, (which the WM1 does) but if you want wifi you could spend more money on the A119 mini which is the next step up in their product line.

 

[Karagandinez]

Both the A119 V3 and the WM1 use the Sony IMX335 sensor but they have different processors so one may be capable of HDR and the other one not. The A119 V3 uses the Novatek NT96670 while the WM1 has the Novatek NTK96565.
The NTK96565 is apparently a lower priced product that may not have all the features of the NT96670.

You forgot to mention A119 Mini. It has on board a Sony IMX335 sensor and a Novatek NT96580 processor and supports HDR.
I think the Viofo representative will resolve our dispute when he enters this thread.

 

[Dashmellow]

You forgot to mention A119 Mini. It has on board a Sony IMX335 sensor and a Novatek NT96580 processor and supports HDR.
I think the Viofo representative will resolve our dispute when he enters this thread.

I didn't mention it because we know the mini has HDR. But you're right, it will be interesting to know if the NTK96565 processor actually supports HDR or not. Perhaps it has simply not (yet?) been implemented in the WM1?

Many Novatek SoC data sheets are available online but I notice the NTK96565 doesn't seem to show up anywhere these things are usually available.

 

[Scottyat2]

I am waiting for something better than the A139 Pro and A229 Duo. Need something with excellent HDR that has 10 to 12 hours recording for Nighttime Parking - Motion Detection, IR Imaging, and with Wi-Fi Alert. Need both front and rear cameras to be of high quality as got to catch those vandals and thieves. I care less about License plate reading, more concerned about being able to identify criminals.

 

[Dashmellow]

I am waiting for something better than the A139 Pro and A229 Duo. Need something with excellent HDR that has 10 to 12 hours recording for Nighttime Parking - Motion Detection, IR Imaging, and with Wi-Fi Alert. Need both front and rear cameras to be of high quality as got to catch those vandals and thieves. I care less about License plate reading, more concerned about being able to identify criminals.

It may be quite a while but we're getting there inch by inch. The A139 Pro, A229 Pro, A119 V3. etc., are heads and shoulders beyond what existed back in the day and even just a few years ago when it comes to low light performance and HDR in dash cams is still a fairly new thing. A good part of what is needed is larger sensors and a different class of lenses. Not sure about IR imaging though. That would need external (outside the cab) IR illumination like a CCTV cam. WiFi and LTE alerts already exist in certain cams.

I'm guessing from your comments that you might live in NYC or some other NY urban environment. I once lived in NYC and remember what it was like, such as the time I came back to my car after visiting my girlfriend for a few hours and found the passenger window smashed and my radio/CD player missing. They stole my flashlight and a couple of tools out of the glove box which they apparently used to help them steal the radio. I suppose if dash cams existed back then they probably would have stolen that too!

 

[kamkar]

The CCTV cameras i have taken apart, absolutely no connection between SOC and the ALU housing, but of course the ALU box may be faster in dissipating heat than a plastic box, even a smaller plastic box.
I would assume as this are a budget camera, it may have a SOC that simply do not support HDR

@Scottyat2 you will never see IR imaging in a dashcam, well at least not unless you put IR emitters on the outside of the car, cameras with IR light around the lens, well they tend to blind them self with the reflections in the glass in front of it, also the cameras with this we have seen in the past decade, well the IR are weak and at best reach to the end of your hood.
Also for parking guard to have just a fighting chance, well you have to park where there are light, at the very least a street light very near, but really here you can not have too much light around.

As my back yard where i park are pitch black aside for a PIR LED light on the house wall that will just back light people approaching my parked car.
Well i have bolted a 1440p CCTV camera to my 2 floor balcony door, and this camera capture everything with IR aid at night.
And i am zoomed ( optically ) in so i can actually expect a identifying capture, as a bonus the system have AI motion detect, so only human or vehicle shapes right next to my car set off a notification to my phone and tablet on bedside table.




PS: The sensor in my CCTV camera it is actually the same Sony IMX 335 sensor you see in many current dashcams,,,,, though i must admit the dashcams do not give this kind of bright night footage.
And the zoomed out footage above, well at 6 in the evening a month ago, Denmark was as black as it get, and zooned out not very much GO in the IR light of the camera, this do step up with zoom level, or the zoomed in screen grab sould have been much darker as zoom steal light.

Parking guard footage from my car with IMX 335 camera, before snow ruin it all you can gauge low light performance.
As you can see even if no street light here, it do see stuff, but you be hard pressed to get a identifying capture, and then you are left with "some punk " VS that particular punk of a for sure capture.

 

[Dashmellow]

The CCTV cameras i have taken apart, absolutely no connection between SOC and the ALU housing, but of course the ALU box may be faster in dissipating heat than a plastic box, even a smaller plastic box.

I've dismantled a few CCTV cameras too and I have a few things to say (and show) about this subject but this really doesn't belong here in this thread. For now I'll just say that the internal electronic components were mounted on their own aluminum heat sinking plates and these were built into a chassis that was isolated from the aluminum housing, which I think may be a version of what you are describing. Maybe a new thread elsewhere on the forum would be a good place to get into this topic?

 

[Panzer Platform]

I would like to say thank you very much to @viofo for sending out a test sample of the WM1. It should arrive in 10-15 days.

I think the Garmin Mini 2 ($130) is the direct competition for the WM1; https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/731428
I just sent Garmin an email asking for a test sample of the Mini 2 for test & review but, something tells me I should not hold my breath. lol
Considering the cameras I have on hand at the moment I guess I will compare the WM1 with the A119 Mini ($120).
I just noticed some differences with the listed specifications aside from the processors, (96580 A119 Mini / 96565 WM1).

A119M - 2K 60fps
WM1 - 2K 30fps

A119M - 2.4GHz & 5GHz Wi-Fi
WM1 - 2.4GHz Wi-Fi

A119M - 140° FOV & F1.6 Aperture
WM1 - 135° FOV & F1.8 Aperture

A119M - External GPS Module
WM1 - Internal GPS Module

Oh yeah, since the A229 1-Channel ($160) is also 2K30fps (IMX335), can anyone think of why I should also include it in the comparison?
Or is the $60 price difference to great for the casual budget consumer to consider?
-Chuck

 

[Mtz]

WM1 vs A119M is enough and better.
As form factor and price, the WM1 should be compared with 70Mai.

 

[Panzer Platform]

As form factor and price, the WM1 should be compared with 70Mai.

Yo Mtz,
Is this the one you're talking about?
($110) 70mai M500;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B09T3JN21S
-Chuck

 

[Mtz]

Your link is for the Azdome version, but yes, the 70Mai 2K version of it.

 

[Karagandinez]

Many Novatek SoC data sheets are available online but I notice the NTK96565 doesn't seem to show up anywhere these things are usually available.

I also did not find data on this processor anywhere and asked a representative of Viofo a question about it.
Here is his answer: "It does not support 2K 60fps and HDR".

 

[Scottyat2]

WInter time is hectic ... dash cam unable to see through layer/blanket of snow or ice. Night Images are rather poor as only able to see shadows entering /exiting apartment or cars. - Dash cams are best suited for recording road trips or long vacation trips. Dash cams are not meant for security or to read license plates. So far, dash cams are a waste of money. Better off with external cameras and a Digital VCR to store data, use a separate battery for power or when it discharged too low automatically transfer power to the vehicle battery. Auto manufacturers should consider increasing security measures and have them built into the vehicle.

 

[Scottyat2]

The CCTV cameras i have taken apart, absolutely no connection between SOC and the ALU housing, but of course the ALU box may be faster in dissipating heat than a plastic box, even a smaller plastic box.
I would assume as this are a budget camera, it may have a SOC that simply do not support HDR

@Scottyat2 you will never see IR imaging in a dashcam, well at least not unless you put IR emitters on the outside of the car, cameras with IR light around the lens, well they tend to blind them self with the reflections in the glass in front of it, also the cameras with this we have seen in the past decade, well the IR are weak and at best reach to the end of your hood.
Also for parking guard to have just a fighting chance, well you have to park where there are light, at the very least a street light very near, but really here you can not have too much light around.

As my back yard where i park are pitch black aside for a PIR LED light on the house wall that will just back light people approaching my parked car.
Well i have bolted a 1440p CCTV camera to my 2 floor balcony door, and this camera capture everything with IR aid at night.
And i am zoomed ( optically ) in so i can actually expect a identifying capture, as a bonus the system have AI motion detect, so only human or vehicle shapes right next to my car set off a notification to my phone and tablet on bedside table.

View attachment 64080
View attachment 64081

PS: The sensor in my CCTV camera it is actually the same Sony IMX 335 sensor you see in many current dashcams,,,,, though i must admit the dashcams do not give this kind of bright night footage.
And the zoomed out footage above, well at 6 in the evening a month ago, Denmark was as black as it get, and zooned out not very much GO in the IR light of the camera, this do step up with zoom level, or the zoomed in screen grab sould have been much darker as zoom steal light.

Parking guard footage from my car with IMX 335 camera, before snow ruin it all you can gauge low light performance.
As you can see even if no street light here, it do see stuff, but you be hard pressed to get a identifying capture, and then you are left with "some punk " VS that particular punk of a for sure capture.

The CCTV you have is sharp. I once worked at CIDTEC back in the late 1980s formerly owned by General Electric. GE wasn't doing well with their Security Cameras mostly used for Incinerators and was bought out by the Managers of that department. I did testing, visual inspection of MOS, and assembly of the cameras. So the new owners name it CIDTEC (Charge-Injection Device) but prior to 2000 was sold. Now its called

Thermo Scientific-CIDTEC Cameras & Imagers located in Liverpool, NY​

 

[Dashmellow]

I also did not find data on this processor anywhere and asked a representative of Viofo a question about it.
Here is his answer: "It does not support 2K 60fps and HDR".

I guess that's why it is called a "budget" camera. I do like the size and form factor and it appears to be a nice entry level cam but all in all the A119 V3 seems to be the better value. It comes down to a choice between having a screen and HDR or the smaller form factor with wifi and no HDR as neither camera supports 2K 60 fps.

 

[Scottyat2]

It may be quite a while but we're getting there inch by inch. The A139 Pro, A229 Pro, A119 V3. etc., are heads and shoulders beyond what existed back in the day and even just a few years ago when it comes to low light performance and HDR in dash cams is still a fairly new thing. A good part of what is needed is larger sensors and a different class of lenses. Not sure about IR imaging though. That would need external (outside the cab) IR illumination like a CCTV cam. WiFi and LTE alerts already exist in certain cams.

I'm guessing from your comments that you might live in NYC or some other NY urban environment. I once lived in NYC and remember what it was like, such as the time I came back to my car after visiting my girlfriend for a few hours and found the passenger window smashed and my radio/CD player missing. They stole my flashlight and a couple of tools out of the glove box which they apparently used to help them steal the radio. I suppose if dash cams existed back then they probably would have stolen that too!

Sorry, never lived in NY City or visited the Rotten Apple. Closest was flying into and out of LaGuardia and JFK Airports. I regret living in NY State but wife parents lived here, my parents also once lived in NY State but moved away. I had left NYS a couple of times, 1 for military 1978 - 1986, then returned like a fool . Then left in 2004 for a job in another state and came back in 2006 because of wife. New York State is a pathetic state but so are all the other 49 states. I came close once of having taken a job in Antarctica in 2006 but I did not like all the restrictions, leaving family behind, and pay was less than $80K per year. Definitely would have gone if paid $150K per year. My Security Clearance and Background check was cleared. My little brother had a higher clearance than mine as he not long ago worked on and eventually became a manager in the construction/building of Presidential helicopters.