Zenfox T3 Triple channel dash cams free test invitation, limited quantity

[HonestReview]

8 reviews and 7 of them got the product for free

I pointed that out above but yes, 7 out of 8 are freebies and reviews from Vine. 1 "Verified Purchaser" named Mr Yee....

 

[Nigel]

Have you got any other issues with yours?

poor thermal paste, overheating, cameras dropping out

They are all the same issue. Writing it in three different ways doesn't make it three different issues, and for many of us who don't insist on using 24 hour parking mode while leaving the vehicle parked in full sun in the heat of Arizona, it is not an issue anyway, and is very likely to have been addressed for production, although maybe it still wont manage to keep recording all day in Death Valley!

If this is the only problem you can come up with in a prototype model then the camera is doing pretty well!

 

[EGS]

They are all the same issue. Writing it in three different ways doesn't make it three different issues, and for many of us who don't insist on using 24 hour parking mode while leaving the vehicle parked in full sun in the heat of Arizona, it is not an issue anyway, and is very likely to have been addressed for production, although maybe it still wont manage to keep recording all day in Death Valley!

If this is the only problem you can come up with in a prototype model then the camera is doing pretty well!

Nigel, please quit pretending this issue is just a minor issue, You forget that mine was overheating while driving, even with the air conditioner running. Since my mod that hasn't happened even with hotter weather this last few days.
Yes, probably your buddies at Zenfox been trying to correct the issue, which is the right thing to do, but no doubt they sold as many as they could from the bad batch under their knowledge these units where bad as we pointed out several days before they starting selling them on amazon and adorama, perhaps other places too. I feel sorry for those who's money was taken in exchange of those units. If you feel comfortable with that, that's on you...

 

[HonestReview]

They are all the same issue. Writing it in three different ways doesn't make it three different issues, and for many of us who don't insist on using 24 hour parking mode while leaving the vehicle parked in full sun in the heat of Arizona, it is not an issue anyway, and is very likely to have been addressed for production, although maybe it still wont manage to keep recording all day in Death Valley!

If this is the only problem you can come up with in a prototype model then the camera is doing pretty well!

@Nigel , it's very clear you don't like me, and anything I say is "wrong" in your eyes. Now if it comes from others, you'll accept it. Listen, these are 3 RELATED ISSUES all resulting in ONE MAJOR problem.

If you take your car to a mechanic for brakes, you could need pads, rotors, or calipers. All are related to your braking system, but are each distinct issues that could cause your brakes to not work properly.

This camera has: Poor Thermal Paste, Improper Cooling (case housing, poor heat redistribution (no copper plate or good heat transfer), etc) all leading to the Camera overheating and ceasing to work. A firmware update won't resolve these issues. Changing the thermal paste alone won't resolve the issue. We've tried and there needs to be more done.

Apparently you've NEVER left the UK, to anywhere else in the world. I've been to the UK. It's cool, overcast, and rainy A LOT in England, Scotland, and Wales! Yet, these are 3 very small places in a very big world. Most of the world sees 30C summers. No one is talking Death Valley California where temperatures easily reach 45C. We're talking 30 with sunshine, meaning a car heats up very fast. So except for a few places in the world, almost everyone will experience these failures at some point or another.

Also, I have not but others have pointed out, camera also overheats while driving.....A Huge concern, too!

Stop minimizing things.

 

[HonestReview]

Nigel, please quit pretending this issue is just a minor issue, You forget that mine was overheating while driving, even with the air conditioner running. Since my mod that hasn't happened even with hotter weather this last few days.
Yes, probably your buddies at Zenfox been trying to correct the issue, which is the right thing to do, but no doubt they sold as many as they could from the bad batch under their knowledge these units where bad as we pointed out several days before they starting selling them on amazon and adorama, perhaps other places too. I feel sorry for those who's money was taken in exchange of those units. If you feel comfortable with that, that's on you...

I truly doubt they have corrected the problem. Here's their change long on the new firmware:

Change log:

1. Fixed time zone bug.
2. Fixed time stamp bug.
3. Other bugs fixed.
4. Optimize the loop recording while camera overheating.

Those positive reviews we read are all from promotional reviews, and only one from a verified purchaser. Most people are doing a quick surface level unboxing, quick drive, then review. And yet, if you look around, you do find a couple users bringing up the heat issue, too. The minority, since it seems people want to be favorable, to secure their place in the next batch of product testing.

If the issue were truly resolved, @Zenfox_Official wouldn't have abandoned us here. He'd be proudly sending off new units or showcasing his corrective measures. Instead, I have read nothing online from @Zenfox_Official about a redesign or improvements to resolve the overheating issue. This tells me the problem isn't fixed. Instead, he's moved on to other places in hopes of garnering positive reviews elsewhere, in a quest to sell as many units before people notice the flaw. While the firmware disables the interior camera in a Band-Aid effort, if the camera is mounted to the windshield, the unit still overheats causing the front and rear to cease recording. Removing it from the windshield (Suction Cup) or Modifying the unit, is about the only way to prolong these issues.

I now have the factory unit on an Arkon suction cup. I'll get about 1.5 hours of interior recording while parked before overheating. I'd be using my test unit, but the wheel on rear camera isn't sturdy now. And I don't want to Frankenstein mix and mash the two together, as it's clear we won't be getting any further units.

 

[SawMaster]

I won't name names, but "Verified buyer" is meaningless. More than one cam manufacturer has asked for me to purchase their "free beta-test cam" with them refunding me my money afterward so I could post a review on Amazon etal as a "verified buyer" I've heard from others that it's a common practice. Whether that happened with the T-3 on Reddit I don't know, but I wouldn't be shocked if it did.

All I know for sure is that this cam started out with a basic and serious design flaw in the way it's hardware was assembled and you can't fix that through firmware changes. The science of heat-sinking solid-state electronics goes back about fifty years to when the TO-3 type transistor case was developed as a way to shierd it and help it dissipate heat faster and better so transistors could handle more power Nothing exotic, hard-to-do, complex, or new about it, but Zenfox and his 'engineers' don't even know this much about what they're doing

Oh well, he seems to want it to fail so it will. It won't be long before other 3 channel cams come along and take his market away from him. Their makers will come here seeking beta-testers and the T-3 will fade away from memory with better happier things replacing it.

Phil




















i

 

[HonestReview]

I won't name names, but "Verified buyer" is meaningless. More than one cam manufacturer has asked for me to purchase their "free beta-test cam" with them refunding me my money afterward so I could post a review on Amazon etal as a "verified buyer" I've heard from others that it's a common practice. Whether that happened with the T-3 on Reddit I don't know, but I wouldn't be shocked if it did.

All I know for sure is that this cam started out with a basic and serious design flaw in the way it's hardware was assembled and you can't fix that through firmware changes. The science of heat-sinking solid-state electronics goes back about fifty years to when the TO-3 type transistor case was developed as a way to shierd it and help it dissipate heat faster and better so transistors could handle more power Nothing exotic, hard-to-do, complex, or new about it, but Zenfox and his 'engineers' don't even know this much about what they're doing

Oh well, he seems to want it to fail so it will. It won't be long before other 3 channel cams come along and take his market away from him. Their makers will come here seeking beta-testers and the T-3 will fade away from memory with better happier things replacing it.

Phil

@jokiin gave me an example a few weeks ago. If I am restating it wrong, please do correct me. Development costs in America or Elsewhere are about the same as it is in China. The difference is you might get 10,000 units to go along with the costs if done in China. Whereas, you may get 1 or 2 if all the work is done in America.

So my guess is @Zenfox_Official spent money to have this camera designed and is now saddled with a boatload of units he needs to offload ASAP. I am not sure the terms or how things work in China, but I've got a feeling there are no "Do Overs". Meaning he can't return all the faulty products and ask they be corrected and redesigned. So his intention is to get as many out there with positive feedback, and recoup his investment. Even if it means his company closes shop. Better to walk away breaking even than losing everything. Bad business but not bad for the pocket book.

Though I've never been to China, I've got a funny hunch China's consumer protection laws aren't all that stringent. Seeing how fakes and knock offs regularly come out of China. Meaning if @Zenfox_Official offloads his "faulty product" before closing shop, the chances of a class action lawsuit or product recalls are slim to none. So unsuspecting buyers simply get shafted.

FYI: There is the Vantrue N4 which is 3 Channels. Cough Cough I'd love to Demo that one for sure. However, I think the parking mode is motion detection based versus low bitrate. So I would definitely list that as a negative, since motion detection can often miss the events leading up to what happened and is inferior to low bitrate recording.

If only @Zenfox_Official recognized his advantage and capitalized upon it, his company would have been great. Putting out the first 3 channel camera with a reliable 3 channel low bitrate parking mode would make waves. Seeing how there is zero competition out, and his only current competitor (N4) doesn't offer low bitrate recording!

 

[Nigel]

I'll get about 1.5 hours of interior recording while parked before overheating.

Is that the result of a test that we can compare with the result from your modified unit?

You appear to be predicting the test result...

I truly doubt they have corrected the problem.

When cameras are sent out for testing, problems are expected, both with the firmware and hardware. Of course they will fix the problems before production!

now saddled with a boatload of units

You are making assumptions there! Certainly there was a whole batch of them made, but I think it would be a very small boat, and changes would always have been expected before production. How do you know that Zenfox doesn't have their own factory and can make whatever number they want?

 

[kamkar]

I put the new FW on the camera yesterday, and now my camera seem to be working recording 3 minute segments, at least i got 8 of them in a row yesterday and normally i only get 4-5 before the camera start to stop for every new file.
So for my driving today i am going to go with those settings as i am going for one of my "long" drives.

 

[SawMaster]

When cameras are sent out for testing, problems are expected, both with the firmware and hardware. Of course they will fix the problems before production!

The purpose of beta-testing is to find problems in real-world conditions with typical people doing the testing. Yes, there will be problems found, but they should not be basic problems nor significant ones That kind of thing should be handled before the cam leaves the factory testing.

And don't count on the factory to solve problems before release, for many times they do not I could list half a dozen cams off the top of my head that never got their discovered issues fixed, some of which I tested. Most of them can still be found for sale with their continuing problems included at no extra cost Only three of them I can think of left the market, one manufacturer went broke, one abandonded their cam for over a year then finally dropped it, and another sold the design to another company who finally dropped it for reasons unknown.

I'm all for giving the manufacturers the benefit of the doubt, and for giving them a chance to fix the issues. But sometimes like we've seen here they seem to not care enough to do anything significant to address the problems, and sometimes they do nothing at all The only sure thing is that new cams will come along with good and bad outcomes both.

Phil

 

[HonestReview]

Is that the result of a test that we can compare with the result from your modified unit?

Unmodified on suction I got 1.5 Hours. Modified Camera on suction cup I got 2 hours and 10 mins. Not to say this is 100% accurate because it's completely impossible to replicate conditions perfectly. However, I would state that both were subjected to sitting in front of my house in the sun on a similar day. So the modified with SOC having 2 Copper Shims sitting side by side on the SOC, and then copper shims under the heatsink, showed significant improvement.

You appear to be predicting the test result...

Again I am predicting nothing.. Those results were from my own tests.

When cameras are sent out for testing, problems are expected, both with the firmware and hardware. Of course they will fix the problems before production!

By the lack of @Zenfox_Official's response to our thread, I seriously doubt he has any intent on completely redesigning his unit. You are assuming without any factual basis. Most Beta tests are to determine software bugs and quirks. Show me another such instance where a camera has catastrophically failed beta testing, and the company had to completely redesign their unit. I'm not sure you'll have much luck.

You are making assumptions there! Certainly there was a whole batch of them made, but I think it would be a very small boat, and changes would always have been expected before production. How do you know that Zenfox doesn't have their own factory and can make whatever number they want?

@jokiin has already stated the @Zenfox_Official has built his design upon existing units. Meaning this guy didn't start from scratch when creating his camera. And the fact corners were cut on thermal paste, cooling, and lack of consideration to heat redistribution, clearly show we're not dealing with someone who has deep pockets. Chances of all those things you allege seem unlikely.

 

[HonestReview]

The purpose of beta-testing is to find problems in real-world conditions with typical people doing the testing. Yes, there will be problems found, but they should not be basic problems nor significant ones That kind of thing should be handled before the cam leaves the factory testing.

And don't count on the factory to solve problems before release, for many times they do not I could list half a dozen cams off the top of my head that never got their discovered issues fixed, some of which I tested. Most of them can still be found for sale with their continuing problems included at no extra cost Only three of them I can think of left the market, one manufacturer went broke, one abandonded their cam for over a year then finally dropped it, and another sold the design to another company who finally dropped it for reasons unknown.

I'm all for giving the manufacturers the benefit of the doubt, and for giving them a chance to fix the issues. But sometimes like we've seen here they seem to not care enough to do anything significant to address the problems, and sometimes they do nothing at all The only sure thing is that new cams will come along with good and bad outcomes both.

Phil

Viofo A129 Duo, my go to for two vehicles, still has the dupe frame issue every 92 frames. And an occasional dropped frame at random. Viofo doesn't handle their own sdk, like street guardian, so this problem appears unlikely to be resolved anytime soon.

Sure, we're not making Hollywood esque videos, but it would be nice to have everything working "properly".

This is an example of a bug later discovered but completely ignored. Something found by users that wouldn't necessarily be tested or found before production.

On the other hand, Zenfox should have done basic testing as to thermal limits (hot and cold) prior to any type of production. Clearly no such testing occurred, as the dropped camera issue is very easy to replicate. Or production had already begun prematurely, and the decision was made to ignore the issue since it would be too costly to resolve. No knows the answer other than @Zenfox_Official, and he's remaining mum since we've come out and said his unit isn't ready for prime time. Makes me pretty certain he already knew or didn't care to hear about the problem. Meaning the chances of it getting resolved seem highly unlikely. As any manufacturer with a name and reputation at stake wouldn't dare have these units be sold without first going back to the drawing board and rectifying the issue.

As I aptly pointed out to @Nigel, and so did you, beta testing is more geared towards finding quirks, and not discovering reasons why a camera completely fails due to hardware. Especially one so simple as to sticking a camera in an oven to check thermal levels! Such tests should be done on the manufacturer level before handing out any product.

 

[SawMaster]

How do you know that Zenfox doesn't have their own factory and can make whatever number they want?

That's not normally the way gadgets like these are produced in China. Certainly somebody owns the factory and could make their own cams, and maybe some do, but normally the factory is not in the business of selling cams- only making them. A dashcam company approaches a factory, gets prices and estimates, then if a deal is struck perhaps gets them to design or help design the cam. Thus folks like Zenfox who may have no knowledge of anything beyond a design concept can enter the dashcam business. The factory doesn't have to fuss with sales or distribution or deal with customer support at cam owner level nor does it have to worry about slow retail sales. All that stuff is on the dashcam company, not the factory. The factory may build cams for several companies; many probably do. Licenses for SDK's and software use are likely held by the factory, not the cam company, which explains why even someone the size of Viofo's company can get stuck trying to get problems resolved if the factory cannot or will not do the work necessary to fix the issues being found. It seems my most-hated cam which i won't mention failed becauise the factory he chose would not work with him to get things set straight, leaving him with no way to fix his cam short of using someone else to build it, which he could scarce afford to do since he was all-in financially already.

So while Zenfox could own a factory it is highly unlikely that he does. If he did he would have a lot more knowledge about cams than we've seen him exhibit here and elsewhere. This could be his only company or product or he may do other things, with thios just being a new and different business area to venture into. We can't know any of this for sure, but we can make some very good guesses based on what we do know which are almost certain to be right once you know how all this stuff usually works.

Phil

 

[Nigel]

We can't know any of this for sure,

That was the point, there is a lot that we don't know, and we do know that some prototypes do not have tape under the heatsink, and so statements like this seem a little excessive at this point in time!

camera has catastrophically failed beta testing, and the company had to completely redesign their unit.

It is perfectly possible that the tape was put there to test heat resilience, by lowering the heat tolerance it is more likely that heat related problems will be found, it ensures that the fall back of turning off rear camera followed by interior followed by front is tested and feedback received on if that is the correct order. Also obtains feedback on how important parking mode in high temperatures is to people and what shutdown temperatures are acceptable.

 

[HonestReview]

That was the point, there is a lot that we don't know, and we do know that some prototypes do not have tape under the heatsink, and so statements like this seem a little excessive at this point in time!

1. Removing the tape under heatsink solved nothing......That tape was there to insulate the ribbon cables for the front and interior cables.

2. We do know that removing the old thermal paste helps, but it's clearly not enough to apply a quality compound. Several modifications are required to extend the interior camera's life before overheating. These cannot be resolved with firmware updates. Read Again: The heat issue is a design flaw.

It is perfectly possible that the tape was put there to test heat resilience, by lowering the heat tolerance it is more likely that heat related problems will be found, it ensures that the fall back of turning off rear camera followed by interior followed by front is tested and feedback received on if that is the correct order. Also obtains feedback on how important parking mode in high temperatures is to people and what shutdown temperatures are acceptable.

It's also possible aliens have visited Earth this week and that today I'm going to win the lottery. Both are very improbable with a cold chance in hell. Removing the tape does nothing what so ever. The tape was meant to shield and/or insulate the ribbon cables for the front and interior cameras.

What don't you get? Are we both not speaking English?

La Camara no Trabaja. El producto puede muy caliente cuando pone en el sol. Entonce, la camara no funciona en este condicciones.

Swedish Next? C0ckney English?

Zenfox or his manufacturer appear to have never tested thermal resistance. Any such test would have shown the results @EGS, @HonestReview (Myself), and others have stated online. The camera shuts down (Interior followed by Rear, and then a Complete Shutdown) upon overheating. @EGS experienced failures while driving. I experienced mainly while parking. Either way had Zenfox thrown the camera into an over, he'd see these failures.

Also obtains feedback on how important parking mode in high temperatures is to people and what shutdown temperatures are acceptable.

You mean wanting a working Camera that doesn't overheat under normal conditions requires feedback? Not that he should have tested and rooted out these flaws before sending out into the world. Nope, by your logic, Beta Testers should do all the leg work, and then be ignored after finding catastrophic problems.

 

[kamkar]

Returned home from my long drive today, seem to have gone over well, as in i have not heard the T3 beep as it usually do when it stop recording.
Right now i am pretty bummed out as my dentist, well he want me to return in 2 weeks, and bring at least 1000 USD to have 1 tooth fixed ( root canal )
That pretty much terminate the remainder of my savings, so with my luck i probably get offered a new apartment soon, which i will have to turn down then as i can not afford moving.

 

[Harsh]

and bring at least 1000 USD to have 1 tooth fixed ( root canal )

 

[spiff72]

It is so that the camera can be mounted behind the mirror with the interior camera looking over the top of the mirror and the front camera still able to see under the dotted area/through the area swept by the wipers. Doesn't work like that in all cars, but when it does it is a neat solution.

First time poster here...

I got one of these cameras as a Vine reviewer (specifically the non-rear channel version). Just installed this (temporarily) with the 12v plug adapter and no cable routing just to get some footage to review. I have the camera mounted to the right of the RVM, and I didn't account for the fact that the camera needs to slide UPWARDS to disengage from the mount - so it bumps the headliner as you try to slide it out. It can still be removed, but i have to flex the headliner a bit to get it off. It has no dot pattern on the windshield in this area (I have to mount next to the camera module that is mounted above and right of the RVM for the collision mitigation system in my 2018 Accord).

I want to post a proper (unbiased) review when the time comes, as I think that is expected with this Vine program (I am a new member), so I have a few questions that have come up as I scanned through all 77(!) pages of this thread...

1. Does the dot pattern really protect from the heat? I might be able to mount it so the interior camera peeks over the mirror, but this interferes with a radar detector slightly (blocks a bit of the interior camera view). The bigger problem is that the RVM blocks visibility to the screen and the buttons.
2. Has anyone who HAS NOT modded their camera cooling tested for the overheat with the latest firmware?
3. I see mention of the H.264 vs H.265 encoding - does one of these use less SOC horsepower than the other? And how does one switch modes?
4. I bought a hardwire kit from Amazon and I realize now that the LVC on it is 11.6V. This seems to be WAY too low. So I haven't tried to install it with the hardwire kit yet, as I want look for one with a higher cutoff value. (I did confirm that the LVC does work right at the 11.6 value by testing with a bench power supply). Does anyone have suggestions on a good kit with a selectable LVC value?
- From what I have read here, the overheating problem mostly occurs (if not always) when in parking mode. I haven't tested this because my 12v socket turns off when the ignition is off. In order to use parking mode, I need to find a fuse in the box that I can piggyback on with constant 12v power (hence my desire to find a better LVC). Is there a way to get it into parking mode when running this outside the car (plugged into my bench power supply)? I would like to measure the power draw when in parking mode. Since it would not see any GPS satellites in this situation, would it ever go into parking mode?
5. Is low bitrate recording or timelapse recording more power-intensive when in parking mode?
6. Can the interior camera be effectively disabled? (In the interest of reducing heat?)
7. Has this overheating problem appeared on unmodified cameras without the rear channel being active?

Sorry for all the questions at once!

Thanks!

 

[Nigel]

1. Does the dot pattern really protect from the heat?

I suspect it might do the opposite for this camera! The dots are good at absorbing heat from the sun, since there is not much mount between camera and glass, the heat from the dots may actually warm the camera more than clear glass would. Probably depends on the car.

2. Has anyone who HAS NOT modded their camera cooling tested for the overheat with the latest firmware?

I've never seen an overheat in UK weather, if you live in Florida then you should probably expect an overheat in parking mode, as many other cameras would too. Don't know about Michigan weather, but as long as it always records while driving then I don't think it is a big issue. For EGS that was an issue with his test camera with original firmware.

3. I see mention of the H.264 vs H.265 encoding - does one of these use less SOC horsepower than the other? And how does one switch modes?

It will make almost no difference to the "horsepower", uses a little extra for the video compression, but less for writing to the memory card because the bitrate is lower. To switch, stop recording, then press and hold the mute button (think it is the mute?) until a white icon appears on the screen indicating H265. You wont notice much difference in the results, unless your computer can't play the H265 properly.

4. I bought a hardwire kit from Amazon and I realize now that the LVC on it is 11.6V. This seems to be WAY too low. So I haven't tried to install it with the hardwire kit yet, as I want look for one with a higher cutoff value. (I did confirm that the LVC does work right at the 11.6 value by testing with a bench power supply). Does anyone have suggestions on a good kit with a selectable LVC value?

You can use the Viofo HK3, available on Amazon. At some point there will be a proper Zenfox hardwire kit.

Is there a way to get it into parking mode when running this outside the car (plugged into my bench power supply)? I would like to measure the power draw when in parking mode. Since it would not see any GPS satellites in this situation, would it ever go into parking mode?

It will enter parking mode on a simple USB charging cable, if it does not detect any movement on the g-sensor for a few minutes.

We don't know that your hardware is the same as the test versions we got here, yours may be more heat tolerant, be interesting to hear your results, although remember that all cameras have limits! If it is too hot for a human to drive, don't expect the dashcam to be able to cope either!

5. Is low bitrate recording or timelapse recording more power-intensive when in parking mode?

There is not much difference, very low frame rate timelapse has a small advantage on power, but low bitrate is the more useful in what gets recorded.

6. Can the interior camera be effectively disabled? (In the interest of reducing heat?)

Only by getting it hot!

7. Has this overheating problem appeared on unmodified cameras without the rear channel being active?

It will if it gets hot enough, not many people have been experiencing overheating though, the reports are from Texas, and wherever HonestReview lives, Florida?

Sorry for all the questions at once!

Best way to do it, much better than many different posts!

Welcome to the forum

 

[spiff72]

Fantastic reply! Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I will go retrieve my camera from the car and see if I can get it into parking mode then.

Thanks again!