360 degree view

[360]

Hello,
I'm about to buy a dashcam and after thinking a bit about that I had the impression that quite often it is really important to have footage of what had been going on beside and behind my car before an accident. For example, who bumped into me from the back? Who forced me to move lanes from the side?
So I came to the conclusion , what I need is a camera that captures 180 degrees, has footage that is enough to see the relevant contures of vehicles also during the night (360 degrees) and that will automatically keep footage (not override) after a concussion event (German law: you can't record permanently).
Then I went to check my car (Audi A3 8V sedan 2016) and I wasn't amused imagining some camera being mounted in a central area on the windscreen, so I decided I would want it to be hidden as much as possible (from the windsscreen) and also to have one that is as miniscule as possible. I don't care that much about perfect images, just what is typically necessary in case of accident / at a court.
I have looked at the Garmin Tandem (too large?) and the Garmin Mini (only 140 degrees). I was thinking that completely (!) hiding a 180 degree (or 160 degree) camera behind the rearview mirror would take care of the front view, being completely invisible. And (an)other camera(s) could be installed elsewhere to take care of the sides and back. I was thinking if one had two Garmin Minis, one could lurk from behind the mirror to the inside of the car, but again it only has 140 degrees (2 x 140 = only 280). I would also consider installing cameras in places other than the screen it that makes sense.

My budget would be around max. 600 euro plus installation costs.

What are your thoughts on these thoughts? Am I wrong in my assumptions? Is there any solution to this?

Thank you!!

 

[Dashmellow]

360º cameras have not proven to be adequate for what you have in mind. They tend to produce distorted, limited coverage from inside the vehicle.

The best approach for what you want to achieve is to use 4 separate cameras or two, two channel cameras for coverage to the sides, rear and front of your vehicle.

This older thread should give you some ideas:

Is there such a thing as a side view dash cam?

See THIS post for an example of four camera 360º coverage.

 

[kamkar]

Yes a 360 camera inside a car, that would just be like a lion in a very small cage.

 

[360]

Thank you! I was thinking, in a really serious incident (like with casualties) with an unclear situation of who was at fault, then a 360 degree camera DESPITE its distortions would be of great value in court, as one could set up a real situation with the car models involved and the dashcam and then move the physical cars around my car model so one can quite precisely tell the distances and what was happening. Thas was my thought about distortions. As to "limited coverage", after watching Garmin tandem footage on youtube, I was actually quite impressed with the coverage, especially if it is mounted in a way that it will have good rear view -- but there seem to be issues with for example overexpose as a result of the camera having to adapt to the inside of the car and to the outside (which doesn't work well).

 

[360]

Well I am impressed, I have been reading through that thread now -- so basically what I would need is four small cameras. Thank you very much!

 

[SawMaster]

Some folks run two 2-channel cams. Both ways can be good, but you definitely need 4 lenses (or more) to get good coverage on all sides with dashcams.

11 channels recording in the old van right now

Phil

 

[HonestReview]

Well I am impressed, I have been reading through that thread now -- so basically what I would need is four small cameras. Thank you very much!

You'll get a fish bowl look on an interior cam. For instance, on the A139, I can see out the majority of the front windows and back windows. So it give s a quasi 360 view. Below is a good sample how of things with look with an interior camera mounted on the front glass.

If someone broadsides you, it'll get captured. If someone knocks out your window walking by, probably capture their hand but not their face. Unless bending down. For true "360" you'd need cameras mounted externally on your rearview mirrors.

 

[kamkar]

Take the simple approach, just log what you do, and if thats nothing wrong, what ever then happen off a camera can not be your fault.
It is sort of what i did years ago when i got rear ended and my rear camera did not work, not that any footage was needed at all as the offender did admit his wrong doing.
But he would not have been able to claim that i just slammed the brake for no reason, cuz my front camera recorded me slowly stopping for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, just like the Danish traffic code say i must do.
Of course it would have been cool to have the actual impact on video ( there was a car behind me, in between me and the guy not stopping as i assume he was on the phone or at least not focused on his driving )

Of course i do have Front / Rear & Left and Right cameras for sort of a full 360 view, but that is only as a result of surplus cameras i have as a tester of these, i dont think i would have gone for 4 cameras if i was to pay for it myself.
ATM there is only 8 cameras in my car and 3 of them are aimed forward on windscreen, and 2 is aimed backwards on rear window.
If i was not affiliated with some brands i am sure i would just have 2 cameras in the car, and that would be front and Rear.

I am still more liking my zoom camera on the windscreen, though it just like the side cameras are rare i go to for footage ( zoom camera is a dashcam with a 12 mm lens retrofitted, that give a better look at details further away where a wide angle regular dashcam only see big things )

 

[SawMaster]

Kind of the same here, Can't afford to buy all the cams I have now While the smartest approach is 'best cams' all around, after giving it some thought I decided that my side cams needn't be the best. What I want them to capture is intersection traffic to the sides which my front cam doesn't get mostly to prove car positions and movement; nearly any cam can do that. I also want them to record things close-by such as persons directly at my vehicle; which again doesn't require a high-performance cam. Lastly it would be nice to have good vids of cars and drivers going by on two lane roads, perhaps capturing a face which glare prevented my front cam from seeing. That does need a good cam as the movement will be fast with only a few frames being where I can expect good facial capture possibilities

Other than the last thing, it can be done without breaking the budget, maybe $60 per cam and card, and can be a bit less with a couple cam choices which are reasonably reliable but not great night-time performers. And it can be done piecework as and when you can afford them. My vehicles will have at least F + R cam coverage; I'm not comfortable with less. And I feel naked without at least a front cam so I have a suction-mount "plug-and-play" cam ready to grab for borrowed/rented cars

tldr: Get the best front cam you can- it's where most of the action will be that you need to capture, and even if it doesn't 'see' something, it will show your own lane position and movements, proving you bear no fault. A rear cam can show someone driving badly before they hit you and hopefully capture details if they 'do a runner'.
Side cams are nice for security and having vids of an incident instead of you just being able to show you had no fault.

Phil

 

[HonestReview]

Fixed side cams aren't possible in every vehicle. For instance, the passenger window on my Volvo is attached to the door. Offering no location to mount a side camera.

 

[Dashmellow]

Fixed side cams aren't possible in every vehicle. For instance, the passenger window on my Volvo is attached to the door. Offering no location to mount a side camera.

I agree that lateral facing dash cams won't be possible in all vehicles but I've had side cams mounted on the rear door windows of my double cab pick-up truck for nearly eight years now without any problems. It is simply a matter of providing a strain relief loop of cable between the door frame and the door so the door can open and close freely without affecting the camera.

Ideally, you want a fixed glass window, but some vehicles provide space on the frame of an operative window for securely mounting a camera.

 

[HonestReview]

I agree that lateral facing dash cams won't be possible in all vehicles but I've had side cams mounted on the rear door windows of my double cab pick-up truck for nearly eight years now without any problems. It is simply a matter of providing a strain relief loop of cable between the door frame and the door so the door can open and close freely without affecting the camera.

Ideally, you want a fixed glass window, but some vehicles provide space on the frame of an operative window for securely mounting a camera.

Vehicles with a fixed small window offer the best positioning, since the camera and cord are fixed in place. While it's possible on a vehicle where the door opens all the way, the small window needs closest to the B-Pillar, and you're going to be left with a dangling cord. As there's got to be enough slack to open the door, which then creates excess cord, when the door is shut.

I really wish I could install a side camera, but it's the reason I run the A139. It gives me a quasi view outside the windows, but nothing comparative to having two fixed cameras on the passenger windows. Mainly, the A139 would be effective in showing (without crisp detail) a car sideswiping you or someone attempting to damage your car. Proof but without the benefit of identification.

@kamkar setup is definitely ideal.

Per a Volvo S60, there's zero place to put a side cam unfortunately. As you need to be able to allow the windows to roll down. And the side window protrudes out the furthest.

 

[kamkar]

Before current setup i had side cameras ( L side mounted off headliner above rear door window close to B pillar ) ( R side mounted off B pillar 10 Cm or so below top of rear door window )

Cameras : L side mobius and R side Innovv C3, that setup i wheeled for 3 years or so.

 

[Dashmellow]

Vehicles with a fixed small window offer the best positioning, since the camera and cord are fixed in place. While it's possible on a vehicle where the door opens all the way, the small window needs closest to the B-Pillar, and you're going to be left with a dangling cord. As there's got to be enough slack to open the door, which then creates excess cord, when the door is shut.

I really wish I could install a side camera, but it's the reason I run the A139. It gives me a quasi view outside the windows, but nothing comparative to having two fixed cameras on the passenger windows. Mainly, the A139 would be effective in showing (without crisp detail) a car sideswiping you or someone attempting to damage your car. Proof but without the benefit of identification.

@kamkar setup is definitely ideal.

Per a Volvo Volvo S60, there's zero place to put a side cam unfortunately. As you need to be able to allow the windows to roll down. And the side window protrudes out the furthest.


View attachment 57951

Funny how a guy with zero hands-on experience with something like this is handing out explanations and advice in reply to someone who has been using side cams on a vehicle's rear doors for at least eight years. In fact, as far as I am aware I was the first member on DCT to experiment with side and rear facing cameras going back to 2013. It all started with re-purposing a spare camera. Done properly, there is no "dangling cord"; it depends on where and how you place the strain relief loop. Obviously, this will depend on the particular vehicle along with your installation skills. But, like everything else, you know better, huh?

P.S. from the looks of your photo it would be relatively easy to mount a side cam on your fixed glass panel, although you'd have to tolerate a small section of exposed cable where it would make the jump from your door frame gasket to the glass panel.

 

[HonestReview]

Funny how a guy with zero hands-on experience with something like this is handing out explanations and advice in reply to someone who has been using side cams on a vehicle's rear doors for at least eight years. In fact, as far as I am aware I was the first member on DCT to experiment with side and rear facing cameras going back to 2013. It all started with re-purposing a spare camera. Done properly, there is no "dangling cord"; it depends on where and how you place the strain relief loop. Obviously, this will depend on the particular vehicle along with your installation skills. But, like everything else, you know better, huh?

P.S. from the looks of your photo it would be relatively easy to mount a side cam on your fixed glass panel, although you'd have to tolerate a small section of exposed cable where it would make the jump from your door frame gasket to the glass panel.

1. That's a stock image of a Volvo S60 (2019).

2. I am dying to hear the explanation from the guy who literally proclaims he knows everything and is a subject matter expert on a car he doesn't own.

I'll bite. Pull up an imagine of a 2016 Volvo S60 and show me how the wire can be run without tons of dangling cord. Hint, the door jam closes securely.. The small window protrudes far away from the car. And I believe the grommet terminating from the B-Pillar to the door holds a plug and is not hollow.

If you mount on the main window itself, then you can't roll down the window....

But hey, I love to be proven wrong by a guy that doesn't even own this car...School me!

 

[Dashmellow]

1. That's a stock image of a Volvo S60 (2019).

2. I am dying to hear the explanation from the guy who literally proclaims knows everything and is a subject matter expert on a car he doesn't own.

I'll bite. Pull up an imagine of a 2016 Volvo S60 and show me how the wire can be run without tons of dangling cord. Hint, the door jam closes securely.. The small window protrudes far away from the car. And I believe the grommet terminating from the B-Pillar to the door holds a plug and is not hollow.

But hey, I love to be proven wrong by a guy that doesn't even own this car...School me!

It's not a matter of being familiar with the car in your photo, it is merely a matter of observing the photo and analyzing what approach I would take. Any properly installed excess cable simply folds out of the way into the door frame. It doesn't need to be very long and it can be placed where it would not be very noticeable. No need for "tons of dangling cord". It just takes some ingenuity and common sense. Beyond this I'm not interested in playing one of your games or taking the time to post an installation tutorial.

 

[HonestReview]

It's not a matter of being familiar with the car in your photo, it is merely a matter of observing the photo and analyzing what approach I would take. Any properly installed excess cable simply folds out of the way into the door frame. It doesn't need to be very long and it can be placed where it would not be very noticeable. No need for "tons of dangling cord". It just takes some ingenuity and common sense. Beyond this I'm not interested in playing one of your games or taking the time to post an installation tutorial.

You made an assertion it's possible. I want you to prove it. You stated you know for a certainty (without owning this car) that a side camera can be run.

So now you're side stepping and saying "I'm not going to waste my time posting an tutorial"......Enlighten Me.

Think I got my answer, you're wrong and cannot admit it.

Until next time.....

 

[Dashmellow]

You made an assertion it's possible. I want you to prove it. You stated you know for a certainty (without owning this car) that a side camera can be run.

So now you're side stepping and saying "I'm not going to waste my time posting an tutorial".

Think I got my answer, you're wrong and cannot admit it.

Until next time.....

You've absolutely got to be the most bellicose, belligerent guy on this forum. No, I'm not going to waste my time being bullied by you. If you can't figure out how to do it, that's your problem. Running a cable with a couple of inches of strain relief is not rocket science.

And BTW, all I actually said was, "from the looks of your photo it would be relatively easy to mount a side cam on your fixed glass panel." You sure do have a habit of twisting people's words and putting words into people's mouths.

 

[HonestReview]

You've absolutely got to be the most bellicose, belligerent guy on this forum. No, I'm not going to waste my time being bullied by you. If you can't figure out how to do it, that's your problem. Running a cable with a couple of inches of strain relief is not rocket science.

And BTW, all I actually said was, "from the looks of your photo it would be relatively easy to mount a side cam on your fixed glass panel." You sure do have a habit of twisting people's words and putting words into people's mouths.

I'm twisting your words? You said it was easy..... Prove it:

I'm not bullying you, You stated you had "expertise" on a car you don't own. Just how every topic on this forum is followed by @Dashmellow advice on his vast years of experience and how no one knows better than you.

Have a great day. You're wrong here.....See the Image I posted. You find a good path to that small window and I'll eat my hat. As the Big Window can't hold a camera, if intend to roll it down ever.

Yes, I know it hurts to be told than that....

P.S. from the looks of your photo it would be relatively easy to mount a side cam on your fixed glass panel, although you'd have to tolerate a small section of exposed cable where it would make the jump from your door frame gasket to the glass panel.

 

[Dashmellow]

I'm twisting your words? You said it was easy..... Prove it:

I'm not bullying you, You stated you had "expertise" on a car you don't own. Just how every topic on this forum is followed by @Dashmellow advice on his vast years of experience and how no one knows better than you.

Have a great day. You're wrong here.

Yes, I know it hurts to be told than that....

I'm wrong? YOU prove it!

BTW, once again, you are putting words in my mouth. At no time have I ever said that I "know better" than anyone else. I simply stated that I've been doing dash cam installations for a very long time (with dozens of different cameras).