A229 Pro Test & Review PP

[ogzogz]

Yes, it actually amounts to the same situation as I mentioned above.

So, 3 cameras on the front (front, front telephoto and interior) do not make much sense.
FHD is quite sufficient for the rear camera. So the rear camera can be provided with a 3.5 mm jack.
Also, as far as I can see, Starvis 2 is not very good in the rear position for night driving.
To summarize, we can say that the new camera is taking shape for 2025.

we'll wait and see.

Well I do not know. For my taste, Starvis 2 2К beats FHD on the rear window day and night.

To elaborate a little,
Starvis 2 is better if there is light.
It might be better in a sedan. The tilt of the glass and the plane behind the seat can have a positive effect on the performance of the camera.
However, I am not satisfied with the performance of a hatchback vehicle with dark windows on low-light roads.
Yes, reading license plates is important, but there is not as much illumination at the rear as headlights. Sometimes the environmental view can also be important. For this reason, my experience is that it may be better to view the surroundings and the incident rather than reading the license plate on the rear camera. There is no stable image at night on dark glass.

 

[Karagandinez]

To elaborate a little,
Starvis 2 is better if there is light.
It might be better in a sedan. The tilt of the glass and the plane behind the seat can have a positive effect on the performance of the camera.
However, I am not satisfied with the performance of a hatchback vehicle with dark windows on low-light roads.
Yes, reading license plates is important, but there is not as much illumination at the rear as headlights. Sometimes the environmental view can also be important. For this reason, my experience is that it may be better to view the surroundings and the incident rather than reading the license plate on the rear camera. There is no stable image at night on dark glass.

Viofo has a huge selection of models and any of them can be installed on the rear window.
As a last resort, you can change the car model.
All in your hands.

 

[Dashmellow]

Mtz does recommend having the Telephoto a little on the driver's side, so that the angle of the windscreen points it more at the oncoming lane.

@Mtz seems to be in the habit of taking credit for things others have said or done long before he did, such as when he performed the exact same telephoto mod that @TonyM did quite some time before as if it was his own invention or remarks I and others made long ago. He dismisses the initial experimentation with telephoto lenses and modifications I and many others have been engaged in as the "old times' as if all of that history, development and commentary didn't finally lead to the commercial telephoto product we are just now seeing from @viofo.

Nine months ago I explained why after many years of using a telephoto dash cam my preferences have evolved to using a slightly shorter (wider) focal length lens to capture more of the road in front of one's car and how I often angle the telephoto lens slightly to my left to better capture oncoming vehicles.

In my reply to @viofo, I explained my thinking about why a wider lens might be an option and demonstrated why I turn the lens slightly left towards the oncoming lane of traffic. This was in the A139 Pro thread before the A229 series came to market.

September 12, 2023

These days I use a less powerful 8mm lens that allows me to capture the oncoming lane as well. I sometimes even turn the lens slightly to the left to enhance oncoming lane capture.

Some years ago when testing a pre-production mini 906 I suggested that the camera could benefit from the ability to slightly turn to the left or right using wedges. This led to the camera shippimg with two screw-in wedges (or with tape) that could be used alone or in combination. Depending on how you installed the wedges the camera could point left or right. One wedge would turn the camera 2 degrees, the other 4 degrees. Both together would turn the camera 6 degrees right or left. A few degrees is all that is required and I found that 6 degrees was never necessary but it might be useful for some. Perhaps, @viofo might consider including such wedges with the new telephoto lens? From the looks of things it could be a worthwhile enhancement.

Edit: Here is how the wedges worked.




This is a 12 megapixel ƒ/1.8- 8mm lens I install in place of a previous 12mm lens I found to be way too narrow for many scenarios. I turned it slightly to the left.



I find the new telephoto lens overall to be very impressive but after many years of using a powerful telephoto lens I have concluded than in many driving scenarios it is counterproductive and often unnecessary. You want a lens that reaches out there but still captures what is happening, including plate numbers that a normal camera will miss but you still want to tell the story. I have often said that a normal dash cams captures what is happening but the telephoto lens tells to story. It can be more than just license plates. Sometimes it can be a maneuver off in the distance that sets a chain of events in motion or the specific behavior of a driver such as talking on a cell phone but that may not be clearly captured on your primary camera.

PP's images are impressive but my take on the new lens is that it is too long a focal length than what is optimal and unnecessary in many situations except perhaps when you are on major straight multi-lane highway.

So, my views after 7 years of telephoto dash cam use have slowly evolved towards slightly wider lenses.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that when people are first introduced to telephoto dash cams the ability to capture license plates and other actions at great distances is so exciting that it's easy to lose sight of your goals for video capture.
For this reason practically everyone who has spent years experimenting with telephotos reached the consensus that slightly wider telephotos are preferable.

I think the focal length here may offer too much magnification but of course, some will have a different opinion, at least in these beginning stages.





My recommendation to @viofo last September was that it might make sense to offer two different focal length telephoto lenses so that buyers might have a choice best optimized for their particular driving circumstances. ( Again, this was back when all the telephoto discussion was geared towards the A139 Pro series.)

If you are finally going to produce a commercial telephoto dash cam option, perhaps a module for the A139, I would recommend doing two focal length options, one with a longer lens and one slightly wider so the buyer can decide which version works best for his particular driving conditions. Some people may want both which could lead to additional sales.

My entire post can be found here.

A139 (Pro) Telephoto Remote Camera

I used 2 pliers. One to hold the lens and another to twist the mount. As @Dashmellow said, use a hair dryer or heat gun to warm it up around the threads and it will make it easier. I don't generally recommend using a pair of pliers to remove dash cam lenses but over the years it has sometimes...

dashcamtalk.com

 

[Nigel]

I think the focal length here may offer too much magnification but of course, some will have a different opinion, at least in these beginning stages.

Note that the A229 Pro front camera lens is a relatively wide 4K lens, which makes the telephoto magnification appear greater than if you had overlayed on a 1080 or 2K front image.

Has anyone said what the focal length of @Panzer Platform 's lens is?

 

[Dashmellow]

Note that the A229 Pro front camera lens is a relatively wide 4K lens, which makes the telephoto magnification appear greater than if you had overlayed on a 1080 or 2K front image.

Has anyone said what the focal length of @Panzer Platform 's lens is?

The front cameras relationship to 1080p or 2K is irrelevant and it's telephoto magnification and Angle of View is self evident.

Basically, the Angle of View of the main camera (wider or less wide) and the Angle of View of the telephoto have little to do with one another. It is the combination of the two that tells the story.

If the telephoto viewing angle is too severe you can easily miss objects in the distance you had hoped to capture because they will be out of the frame depending on the type of road or street you are traveling on. This is the logic behind a slightly wider telephoto that still is capable of capturing distant license plates and other actions.

This whole notion of capturing plates at the farthest possible distance is something that only people new to telephoto dash cams get all excited about but that more experienced telephoto dash cam users wouldn't bother about because they've learned that is not the most useful goal.

 

[Mtz]

I figure I would have to buy the A229 Pro in single channel, then add the telephoto and interior cameras.
Or, buy the 3-channel version, add the extra telephoto and keep the 2K rear in a box.
Hopefully Viofo will consider selling the telephoto in a 3-CH setup.

Buying separate secondary cameras for Viofo A229 Pro is expensive. Better if they will offer a complete 3CH setup.

When the telephoto becomes available you could request to buy the 3-CH but in this configuration;
Front Camera
Telephoto Camera with 50cm cable
IR Interior Camera with 6 Meter cable
And just charge the “normal” 3-CH price.

I expect this to be possible only on viofo.com because it is not easy to make a custom build on any online store.

 

[viofo]

Buying separate secondary cameras for Viofo A229 Pro is expensive. Better if they will offer a complete 3CH setup.

I expect this to be possible only on viofo.com because it is not easy to make a custom build on any online store.

We plan to make a new 1080P rear cam to bundle with the telephoto camera.

 

[ogzogz]

I haven't received the telephoto cameras yet. I hope it arrives as soon as possible and I can test it.
It would be a better combination if the telephoto camera could be installed instead of the interior camera instead of the rear camera.
I hope there is an improvement for this and users can make a functional choice about which camera to disable.

I assume the A229 Pro can be configured to run as follows:
- 4K Front camera
- 2K 'Rear' as Telephoto Front camera
- 1080 'Interior' as Rear camera
With a short cable to the 2K camera, and a long cable to the interior/rear camera?

I figure I would have to buy the A229 Pro in single channel, then add the telephoto and interior cameras.
Or, buy the 3-channel version, add the extra telephoto and keep the 2K rear in a box.
Hopefully Viofo will consider selling the telephoto in a 3-CH setup.

Yes, it actually amounts to the same situation as I mentioned above.

So, 3 cameras on the front (front, front telephoto and interior) do not make much sense.
FHD is quite sufficient for the rear camera. So the rear camera can be provided with a 3.5 mm jack.
Also, as far as I can see, Starvis 2 is not very good in the rear position for night driving.
To summarize, we can say that the new camera is taking shape for 2025.

we'll wait and see.

We plan to make a new 1080P rear cam to bundle with the telephoto camera.

Yes, this is what I wanted to explain in my previous articles and I can say that the result was achieved.

4k front(2k for a229 plus front),
Fhd telephoto front,
Fhd rear.

and next, it's time to make a standalone telephoto camera by modifying the vs1 , a119 mini 2 , wm1 or trying another single design. Thus, he will want to buy a separate telephoto camera with his existing camera and use it only while driving, without using it while parked. @viofo

 

[Dashmellow]

and next, it's time to make a standalone telephoto camera by modifying the vs1 , a119 mini 2 , wm1 or trying another single design. Thus, he will want to buy a separate telephoto camera with his existing camera and use it only while driving, without using it while parked. @viofo

I wholeheartedly agree with this thinking!

While I am thrilled that Viofo has finally produced a high quality telephoto option for the multi-channel A229 camera after suggesting the idea long ago, having experimented with, refined and used a stand alone telephoto dash cam with a variety of different lens options for seven years now I believe a stand-alone single camera option could be an important and valuable addition to Viofo's product line.

However, I think such a camera should not be a modified version of an existing single channel camera but instead should be a small, discreet dedicated design. It should include the ability to aim the camera slightly to the left or right as well as up and down. It also needs a polarizer option that is user adjustable. (more on this below). The ability to adjust the aim of a telephoto dash cam for your specific installation is vital for a camera like this based on my experience.

Two seperate cameras provides a redundancy and installation flexibility you can't quite achieve with a two or three channel camera. Also, as someone who regularly runs four separate cameras when parked, the 5th camera, a telephoto never runs while parked as it simply turns off when I shut my engine off and this makes everything easy since you never even have to think about it.

One of the primary reasons I think a small dedicated telephoto dash cam would be a valuable addition to the Viofo product line is that this would allow anyone with an existing camera of any kind or number of channels to simply add a telephoto camera to their current set up without having to go out and purchase a new multi hundred dollar camera system just to acquire what I described years ago as this"game changing" capability.

It is quite possible, even likely that a small single channel dedicated telephoto dash camera could far outsell an optional telephoto camera module available only to Viofo's top of the line model(s). This is something @viofo might seriously want to consider.

 

[Dashmellow]

OK, so I mentioned that a telephoto dash cam should have a user adjustable polarizer. Here's why.

Everyone here seems exclusively zoned in on the ability of telephoto lenses capturing license plates and this is understandable, but it's also kind of a telephoto newbie thing. Once you gain more time and experience using telephoto lens dash cams you begin to realize and understand what else they can capture to tell the whole story of what is happening out in front of you in a way that a single wide angle camera often can't. This is why I think that a slightly wider (shorter focal length) lens would be a good option here as I spoke about in a previous post. I capture all kinds of interesting and sometimes vital events on my telephoto camera. Telephoto lenses on dash cams are absolutely NOT just about license plate capture!

After using a telephoto lens for quite some time I finally added a high quality polarizer to the lens and this too became it's own game changer. It wasn't really about reflections of my own windshield but about eliminating reflections on other vehicles windshields out there in front of you in traffic. You'd be amazed at how much more evidence you can effectively capture if you can record the behavior and even identity of other drivers involved in an incident. Polarizers are a vital enhancement for dash cam telephotos but their adjustment requirments are somewhat different than for typical dash cam polarizers and for this the individual user needs to adjust and fine tune the filter according to your specific vehicle, camera installation, driving circumstances and preferences and this is why I believe that any polarizer available for or shipped with a telephoto camera needs to be easily user adjustable. This is done visually in real time using a separate screen as you tune in the filter. (Notice that you want to find the sweet spot where most windshields of cars in your view become as free of reflections as possible while prioritizing the one directly in front of you.)

 

[DT MI]

...but about eliminating reflections on other vehicles windshields...

100% agree. This amusing sequence would not have been possible were it not for the polarizer on the rear camera.

 

[Dashmellow]

100% agree. This amusing sequence would not have been possible were it not for the polarizer on the rear camera.

Great capture! Love the part where she's cleaning her teeth, talking on the phone and rolling forwards with both hands off the steering wheel. That's why we need the ability to capture stuff like this.

I won't post the screen shots here but the clip reminds me of some telephoto captures I posted of this teenage girl in traffic talking on her phone while at the same time messing with her hair and driving slowly in traffic with both hands off the wheel. She's not even watching the road! The polarizer I was using with the telephoto provided absolutely crystal clear views into her car on a bright sunny day. Again, this is why telephoto lenses are about more than just capturing license plates.

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/mobius-varifocal-zoom-ir.30602/post-470970

 

[viofo]

@Mtz seems to be in the habit of taking credit for things others have said or done long before he did, such as when he performed the exact same telephoto mod that @TonyM did quite some time before as if it was his own invention or remarks I and others made long ago. He dismisses the initial experimentation with telephoto lenses and modifications I and many others have been engaged in as the "old times' as if all of that history, development and commentary didn't finally lead to the commercial telephoto product we are just now seeing from @viofo.

Nine months ago I explained why after many years of using a telephoto dash cam my preferences have evolved to using a slightly shorter (wider) focal length lens to capture more of the road in front of one's car and how I often angle the telephoto lens slightly to my left to better capture oncoming vehicles.

In my reply to @viofo, I explained my thinking about why a wider lens might be an option and demonstrated why I turn the lens slightly left towards the oncoming lane of traffic. This was in the A139 Pro thread before the A229 series came to market.

September 12, 2023


Some years ago when testing a pre-production mini 906 I suggested that the camera could benefit from the ability to slightly turn to the left or right using wedges. This led to the camera shippimg with two screw-in wedges (or with tape) that could be used alone or in combination. Depending on how you installed the wedges the camera could point left or right. One wedge would turn the camera 2 degrees, the other 4 degrees. Both together would turn the camera 6 degrees right or left. A few degrees is all that is required and I found that 6 degrees was never necessary but it might be useful for some. Perhaps, @viofo might consider including such wedges with the new telephoto lens? From the looks of things it could be a worthwhile enhancement.

Edit: Here is how the wedges worked.




This is a 12 megapixel ƒ/1.8- 8mm lens I install in place of a previous 12mm lens I found to be way too narrow for many scenarios. I turned it slightly to the left.


I find the new telephoto lens overall to be very impressive but after many years of using a powerful telephoto lens I have concluded than in many driving scenarios it is counterproductive and often unnecessary. You want a lens that reaches out there but still captures what is happening, including plate numbers that a normal camera will miss but you still want to tell the story. I have often said that a normal dash cams captures what is happening but the telephoto lens tells to story. It can be more than just license plates. Sometimes it can be a maneuver off in the distance that sets a chain of events in motion or the specific behavior of a driver such as talking on a cell phone but that may not be clearly captured on your primary camera.

PP's images are impressive but my take on the new lens is that it is too long a focal length than what is optimal and unnecessary in many situations except perhaps when you are on major straight multi-lane highway.

So, my views after 7 years of telephoto dash cam use have slowly evolved towards slightly wider lenses.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that when people are first introduced to telephoto dash cams the ability to capture license plates and other actions at great distances is so exciting that it's easy to lose sight of your goals for video capture.
For this reason practically everyone who has spent years experimenting with telephotos reached the consensus that slightly wider telephotos are preferable.

I think the focal length here may offer too much magnification but of course, some will have a different opinion, at least in these beginning stages.


My recommendation to @viofo last September was that it might make sense to offer two different focal length telephoto lenses so that buyers might have a choice best optimized for their particular driving circumstances. ( Again, this was back when all the telephoto discussion was geared towards the A139 Pro series.)

My entire post can be found here.

A139 (Pro) Telephoto Remote Camera

I used 2 pliers. One to hold the lens and another to twist the mount. As @Dashmellow said, use a hair dryer or heat gun to warm it up around the threads and it will make it easier. I don't generally recommend using a pair of pliers to remove dash cam lenses but over the years it has sometimes...

dashcamtalk.com

We also tested another wider FOV telephoto lens, but the image quality is not so great, and the lens itself did not look professional.
I followed the telephoto camera discussion on DCT for years, and the Vortex Radar video review helped greatly.
Finally I have an idea that the telephoto camera should support HDR, otherwise it still can't capture license plate numbers for night recording.

 

[Dashmellow]

We also tested another wider FOV telephoto lens, but the image quality is not so great, and the lens itself did not look professional.
I followed the telephoto camera discussion on DCT for years, and the Vortex Radar video review helped greatly.
Finally I have an idea that the telephoto camera should support HDR, otherwise it still can't capture license plate numbers for night recording.

Thanks for your reply, Bill.

I’m well aware that you’ve been following the telephoto lens discussions for quite a long time.

In fact, on June 17th, 2018 you liked the following post in one of my varifocal telephoto threads where I speculated an enterprising camera developer like you might be following along with the discussion and could well be putting the wheels in motion to provide a telephoto option for a two channel dash cam as per my suggestion. Two channel dash cam chipsets and cameras were a relatively recent development at that time. When I saw that you had liked the post I certainly got the feeling that you would eventually make it happen and am thrilled that it is now finally a reality.

Well, many of us who have been experimenting with aftermarket telephoto lenses in our dash cams (primarily the Mobius) have found great benefit in having such optical reach and highly detailed capture of cars and scenes out in front of us. Of course, not one of us would be willing to give up our more traditional wide angle dash cams in lieu of just having the telephoto. Since the chipset technology for high quality dual channel cameras already exists and is already on the market in another form factor, certainly an integrated dual wide/telephoto lens front facing camera is quite viable and may have much appeal to a certain segment of the dash cam buying public.

It would not surprise me to learn that some enterprising dash cam developer has been reading this thread and is already putting the wheels in motion.

As for a different but slightly wider Angle of View lens, I am puzzled that you couldn’t find one that performed to your satisfaction. There are certainly many excellent 8mm M12 lenses available that offer outstanding performance, such as the 12 MP 8mm ƒ/2.0 lens I and others have been talking about and demonstrating or the zero distortion 8M 7.8mm ƒ/1.8 some lens vendors have on offer. And of course, I would imagine an entity like Viofo is likely have access to lenses that are not readily available to the average lens buying consumer like many of us DIYers and experimenters here on the forum.

I think the current remote telephoto lens module works quite well and offers impressive image quality. You've done a wonderful job with it. Nevertheless, as I’ve stated previously, years of experience and experimentation with many telephoto lenses and focal lengths has led me and other DCT members to reach the consensus that telephoto dash cam lenses that have too narrow an AOV have limitations and drawbacks because you can easily miss important, even vital events or license plates that are not dead center within the FOV. The goal is to capture license plates and driver behaviors in adjacent oncoming lanes of traffic on different types of roads or streets or on curved roads, while extreme telephoto lenses will primarily excel at capturing plate numbers way out ahead of you on straight roads, especially highways and directly in the center of your tele coverage window. A slightly shorter focal length provides a broader and wider view of the scene ahead while still providing more than enough magnification, and this is what some of us telephoto experimenters have labeled “the sweet spot” for telephoto dash cam focal length. And so that’s my logic for advocating for a shorter lens.

When you say that, “the lens itself did not look professional” it sounds like a choice of form over function. With a lens of a shorter or longer focal length, either it protrudes a bit more or a little less from the mount/housing but this would seem to be a question of designing a suitable housing to accommodate the chosen lens. Either way, I firmly believe that anyone who is serious about dash cams is far more interested in the camera’s performance and capabilities than they might be about its ultimate appearance, although I do understand the desire for an appealing design as a manufacturer. There are certainly buyers out there for whom appearance of the product supersedes performance. Such buyers likely have never visited a place like DashCamTalk.

Finally, I do hope you will consider eventually introducing a small single channel telephoto dash cam.

As I’ve mentioned previously, the ability to add a small telephoto camera to any existing dash cam installation could make for an appealing add-on product that has the potential to sell very well, especially as the advantages of telephoto dash cams become more well known to the buying public.