cammer partially at fault here? Dual right hand on Red

[GTA Driver]

Accident at a red light, where right hand turns drivers take advantage of the adjacent advanced left turn green. Its a dual right, where the car on the far right immediately goes to the lane to his left, hitting the car with the dash cam to his left. Its a dual right hand turn, where the car to the left can turn.

Question is, since its a red, can the car in the lane in the centre lane turn since its a red?

Me - I'll never turn right on red on a dual lane if I am on the lane on the left. Two years ago, my wife got hit on dual turn (on the car WITHOUT the dash cam) but she had a green light.

 

[lacibaci]

I'd say the camer is not at guilt. The driver in the right most lane should've stayed in his lane.

 

[randy]

From a legal perspective AND a common sense perspective....the cammer did nothing wrong. She has the right to turn as well provided that her lane is a turn lane. Truck is at fault all day...stay in your lane.

 

[Rajagra]

She said the turn was making her feel uncomfortable. But she kept going despite the other vehicle being very much in her lane.
She had time to avoid the collision. Maybe if she hadn't been yakking away she would have picked up on the fact that the other car had a trailer. It was in plain sight when she passed it!
Also the way she reacted after the collision makes me think she gets into a lot of scrapes. But "it's never her fault."

I'm not feeling very generous tonight, I know!

 

[randy]

She said the turn was making her feel uncomfortable. But she kept going despite the other vehicle being very much in her lane.
She had time to avoid the collision. Maybe if she hadn't been yakking away she would have picked up on the fact that the other car had a trailer. It was in plain sight when she passed it!
Also the way she reacted after the collision makes me think she gets into a lot of scrapes. But "it's never her fault."

I'm not feeling very generous tonight!

You have a valid point. She was already committed to the turn when she said she was uncomfortable, but she may have been able to see this coming. I do feel like if it was me I would have been able to slow down and avoid it....she also didn't come across as the brightest bulb. It is still not her fault though.

 

[GTA Driver]

The Ontario Driver's handbook doesn't address this matter. To me it doesn't seem safe or suitable to turn right on a dual turn lane on a red, but its not addressed
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section2.6.3.shtml


The Ontario Handbook does address left turn a little better - has illustrations and states

Turn from the lane closest to the centre line to the lane right of the centre line, following a smooth arc. Then, when you can, move into the right curb lane.​

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section2.6.4.shtml

I also feel a car should be in completely in a lane for at least one second before making a lane change after making a turn. As such, I feel the truck is mostly at fault. I was taught to check my mirrors or blind spot. Aside from the dual turn, a car behind him could have run the right light and try to overtake him immediately from the left lane.

Disappointing the handbook doesn't address dual lane changes.

 

[Rajagra]

To me it doesn't seem safe or suitable to turn right on a dual turn lane on a red,
...
I also feel a car should be in completely in a lane for at least one second before making a lane change after making a turn. As such, I feel the truck is mostly at fault.

The second lane was marked for right turns only. The green right turn filter arrow was lit.
By Euro standards that simply was not a turn on red, it was a turn on green. But you do things differently over there.

The truck was mostly to fault, but more because of the way it continued than how it started. It may have had to take the turn wide because of the trailer. And it gained the necessary head start to do so safely.
But then it kept drifting out, which is where it got dangerous. There was no reason for the truck to not move 'back' to its own lane.

But again, you do things differently over there. It is more common for you to overtake on either side, and cruise along in an overtaking lane despite the inner lane being empty. It's bad lane discipline and it can lead to events like this. We are getting more like you in this respect.

 

[Sunny]

Truck at fault.
Green arrow is not red.
Trailer is small so doesn't need two lanes to turn like 18 wheelers but they usually take the left lane to turn if trailer needs room.
I had exact same thing but the pickup didn't have trailer.
Luckily I saw it and slammed on the brakes.
When I honked, he was completely oblivious that he did anything wrong.

 

[Gibson99]

yeah i was about to say that it was NOT a turn on red - they had a green arrow. and both right lanes are right turn only - cammer didn't have the option to go straight. i had sound off since i'm at work, but it did look somewhat avoidable. then again, the cammer could have ASSumed that the truck was going to go back to the right lane, and was only slightly over the line because of the trailer.

i make right turns on red (and green of course) from dual turn lanes quite often - most commonly here: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.952...4!1s2r1G3uHhXc6hyNvOl6ualA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
i am normally going southeast on the 290 frontage road (aka hempstead hwy) and turning right (south-southwest) onto Barker-Cypress. it's only tricky at night, and that's only because it's hard to tell which lane people are in who are already on barker-cypress, coming from my left. i've had a few close calls there from people not staying in the right lane, but thankfully there's a yellow painted center divider on barker-cypress which gives me plenty of room for me to move into in case someone REALLY screws up on my right. in fact, i often put my left wheels slightly into the yellow as i make the turn anyway, to give the person on the right a little buffer. but because traffic is usually dense there, and i have to make a left at the next light on barker-cypress, it becomes a fight to get someone to let me into the left lane if i turn from the far right lane.

 

[Rajagra]

i had sound off since i'm at work, but it did look somewhat avoidable.

When they start turning and the video shows there's no room for her to pull alongside the other car (trailer or not), she says out loud that she's uncomfortable with the turn. Does she consider keeping her distance? No, she makes light of it, getting giggly and humming a tune. And continuing to try to take the lane. Only after the impact does she take it seriously.

Then she gets angry and instantly reads out the number plate for the camera. That's well practiced behaviour. It's not her first rodeo.

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[Module 79L]

Lol, our road rules have so many flaws and lack things in so many areas but that situation would be an open & shut case.
Switching lanes, especially to the left, without making sure it can be done safely (I also didn't see a signal) is a serious infraction and in case of an incident it puts the driver immediately at fault.

 

[Rajagra]

My feeling is that the drifting across lanes was down to stupidity and incompetence, not deliberate selfishness.

But this is very, very common. You need to deal with it, not think "it's my lane, I have the right to proceed, I'm not going to stop."

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[Module 79L]

Deal with it and waiver every right I have as driver/rider? If everytime you go out on the road you go with a "I'm going to avoid every possible accident, I'm going to accomodate every idiocy possible" attitude, you might as well stay home.

 

[Rajagra]

Deal with it and waiver every right I have as driver/rider?

If the alternative is to deliberately crash - YES! EVERY TIME! To think otherwise it's incredibly immature and dangerous.

If this had been a battle of wills it would have been a different matter. I'm willing to jostle for position when necessary. But there is no evidence to suggest that is the case here. The lady had no reason to think the other driver was aware of her proximity.

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[GTA Driver]

I will make a right hand turn on a dual stop sign here
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/40...b2c8c4e7e0784f!8m2!3d43.7874704!4d-79.1615997

As I am turning left 10 to 15 seconds after the turn, I will be in the centre lane at the intersection before the turn. I found if I was in the right lane coming from the interchange and tried to make two left hand lane changes before I turned left, it was a challenge as there would be cars in the left lanes, some coming from the interchange. When I do turn from the centre lane, I have to watch out as some cars in the right hand lane go directly to centre lane not the curb lane as they should such as the video with the accident with the truck and trailer.

If you look across from Google maps, you will see the building interchange to the highway in some of my other videos