COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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Well finally someone with medical and scientific respect has done a study on how effective face masks are on reducing aerosol droplets (y)(y)

Duke University, who are one on America's leading Medical Research institutions released THIS yesterday. It clearly shows that all true 'masks' can reduce disease transmission by aerosol droplets, but one type (the fleece neck gaiter or sleeve) actually increases it :eek: As expected, true non-valved N95 masks are best, but even home-made masks are quite effective and just a double-layered triangular bandana is beneficial :)

Phil
 
A news paper here just commissioned a test of a handful of masks generally available, really it was just the medical mask that was any good, but fabric / cloth masks work too but far from as good.
Really with cloth / fabric masks the more layers the better, which in turn mean the more frustrating and hard to breathe in it is, the better it also is.

There is talks here about making masks free, as on several other areas where Danes are asked to spend money on their health, well they dont really like to ( i assume from the fact they had over so much money to " big brother" so its his job to make sure they are healthy )
Danes have a really sickening approach to many things.

Also here if you have problems getting pregnant well public healthcare will pay,,,,,, anything i assume until you get your child
BUT ! that just go for the first kid, any more and you are supposed to pay yourself, something that seem to infuriate many people here and so of course also politicians.

If you ask Danes to choose between safety provided by government at a very high cost, and it really not working anyhow, and freedom,,,,,,, most Danes will choose safety.

personally i would rather die slowly at the hand of some nutcase than i will choose safety, though of course as i live here i am forced to choose safety in the collective, and have absolutely no chance of going any other way without breaking on a whole score of laws.
I do so not like the socialist dictatorship my country have turned into.
 
SawMaster said:
Well finally someone with medical and scientific respect has done a study on how effective face masks are on reducing aerosol droplets (y)(y)

Duke University, who are one on America's leading Medical Research institutions released THIS yesterday. It clearly shows that all true 'masks' can reduce disease transmission by aerosol droplets, but one type (the fleece neck gaiter or sleeve) actually increases it :eek: As expected, true non-valved N95 masks are best, but even home-made masks are quite effective and just a double-layered triangular bandana is beneficial :)

Phil
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I saw this posted on Linsey Marr's Twitter feed yesterday. It is a newspaper clipping from a doctor during the influenza pandemic in 1918 showing that even back then those in the know were aware that masks can stop pathogens in droplets/aerosols, so we need to be concerned with stopping those droplets/aerosols, not necessarily the size of the pathogen itself.

masks_1918.png

If you don't know who Linsey Marr is, she's one of the few trained engineers studying aerosol science as it relates to virus laden aerosols.

The New York Times ran an interesting article about her in June that led me to visit her fascinating Twitter feed periodically.

The Scientist, the Air and the Virus
 
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Yes, even back then there was enough empirical evidence to show that face masks are effective and it's been consistently re-proven with every virus outbreak since then. Which is why I am forced to question the intelligence of anyone claiming that masks are ineffective at helping in the control of outbreaks :cautious: It is good to always seek more proof, but it's utterly stupid to reject what proofs you do have while waiting on the proofs to become absolute :mad:

Question your logic first, then apply it if it's correct. If your logic is incorrect you can only achieve the correct answer by chance which any fool can do as well as you can ;) Personally I do not wish to be seen as being the same as a fool, so I always question my logic before making statements or decisions in hopes of keeping myself at a higher level of intelligence :cool:

Phil
 
SawMaster said:
Yes, even back then there was enough empirical evidence to show that face masks are effective and it's been consistently re-proven with every virus outbreak since then.
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The interesting thing was that back in 1918 they didn't really understand yet what viruses were. It wasn't until 1933 that there was proof that the 1918 pandemic was caused by a virus.
 
So true. In fact, before SARS1 came along, almost everything we knew regards virus epidemiology came from studies of the "Spanish Flu" and it is still the basis of most of what we know today ;) It was the first well and nearly universally studied epidemic the world had seen, and it taught us a lot including how mutations can happen bringing a 'second wave' to those who had developed immunity to the first round through surviving an infection then :oops: Which also clearly shows why "herd immunity" is not a reliable defense against a possibly mutating virus :cautious:

And it also validates my position regards having the correct logic with mask usage being so clearly called for from the beginning of Covid-19 because there WAS proof that it was at least somewhat effective against a virus, even when that proof was only empirical and not yet fully proven or fully understood :cool:

As bad as Covid-19 is, the "Spanish Flu" was far worse not only because they did not know how to fight it, but because of who it targeted and how quickly their condition deteriorated into death from the first signs of infection. Completely healthy young adults died mere days after showing the first symptoms :eek: From it we now understand what "cytokine storms" are and how they cause our bodies to self-destruct; an effect we still have little means of dealing with which we've seen happen with Covid-19 too :(If Covid-19 had been like the "Spanish Flu" we'd have had similar results even with our currently greater knowledge and abilities because we're not properly using what we know- our logic is flawed so our results will follow.

Phil
 
I think corona could be just as bad as the Spanish flu if people was just messing around doing what they use to do, oblivious to any measurements you could to to minimize the risk.
I can only guess what would happen is something like Ebola went airborne, or maybe if AIDS changed its avenue of attack.
Countries with large parts of population being poor will probably tell in the end, those people can not afford to undertake even the most simple things to minimize exposure, they just have to get out there every day or die from starvation instead.

We people in here are blessed we have a lot of options we can undertake to minimize the chance of exposure, and for some of us at least on the face of it it will be cheaper and more easy to do than for others, even if our respective countries are very much alike on the major parameters.
 
Moderna says it's on track to recruit a full 30,000 subjects for its vaccine trial by September, but slow enrollment so far has vaccine experts doubting the shot's chances at a green light before U.S. elections in November. As of Friday, only 54 of the trial's 89 sites were online, Moderna said; even if recruitment picks up, as NIAD director Anthony Fauci and NIH chief Francis Collins expect, the trial design means results won't come until the first quarter of 2021 at the earliest, vaccinologists Peter Hotez and Paul Offit figure. After Moderna enrolls its subjects and gives them their first shot, they then have to wait 28 days before giving them a second shot, then wait two weeks for the vaccine to become fully effective, then wait for sufficient subjects to catch covid-19.
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edition.cnn.com

Moderna's clinical trial numbers show there's 'no way' Trump can have a vaccine by Election Day | CNN

Contrary to his predictions, President Trump won't have a coronavirus vaccine ready by Election Day, vaccine experts tell CNN after reviewing data from Moderna, the first company to begin its Phase 3 clinical trials of a coronavirus vaccine in the United States.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com


Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro issued a decree on Thursday that will set aside 1.9 billion reais ($356 million) in funds to purchase and eventually produce the potential COVID-19 vaccine being developed by AstraZeneca PLC and Oxford University researchers. Brazil’s Acting Health Minister General Eduardo Pazuello said the vaccine could be available for Brazilians by December or January.
He called the vaccine “the most promising in the world” to fight the virus.
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Dashmellow said:
Speaking of spin, Nigel, this chart you posted ends on July 30th, exactly two days before the current spiking trend in UK COVID cases began.
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There is no "current spiking trend in UK COVID cases", although UK did get above Australia today with a bit of help from Oz dropping down a bit:

1597062780081.png
 
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d85257f1aaef8f20547a2a06a75c252e158288a1.jpg
 
It sure is (y) I like some of their music, they had a distinct sound.

Phil
 
They are looking a bit older these days, last year at Glastonbury with some top quality cameras:
 
Dashmellow said:
Really?
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Prof. Mathews, a former head of Australia's National Centre for Disease Control and ex-Federal Government Deputy Chief Medical Officer, said the UK's delayed lockdown measures may ultimately prove advantageous.
The UK waited longer than many European countries to enforce strict lockdowns.
"But [the data] is suggesting that a larger proportion of people were infected without getting symptoms and that a proportion of them have now got immunity.
"[This] is a plausible explanation for why the rates in the UK have gone down so dramatically recently."
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"[The UK] suffered economically with the shutdown. But if they really have got the herd immunity now and the virus is not going to have another wave then, in a sense, the economic costs for Britain are more or less over," Prof. Mathews said.
"Whereas in Australia, while we have still got the virus and we're striving for suppression, we're nowhere near having enough people infected to generate herd immunity.
"So we've got to keep the lockdown at a level to keep the suppression going."
"But the economic cost of continuing with suppression without an endpoint is also going to be very great.
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He said this meant Australia's economic costs would be significant and ongoing.
"Whereas the UK, people are now starting to say the worst is really over."
"It is important that we look at all the evidence and reassess the British experience over the next few weeks and compare it with what's happening in Victoria and what happened in New South Wales and other parts of Australia to help us to decide precisely what should be done, given where we are at the moment," he said.
After the initial national lockdown, Prime Minister Scott Morrison's public strategy has been aggressive suppression.
But Prof. Mathews questioned whether suppression was a viable long-term strategy because so few Australians have been infected with the virus.
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www.9news.com.au

If UK has achieved herd immunity where does Australia go next?

There are some early signs the United Kingdom could be approaching herd immunity, which may shine a spotlig...
www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au

Note that Prof. Mathews has changed his message 180 degrees from earlier in the epidemic:
It’s a far cry from April, when epidemiologist Professor John Mathews told The Independent: “Australia has every right to hold its head up and say we’ve done well. I’m pretty proud of what Australia has done, really. My reckoning is we’ll come out in pretty good shape.”
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Australia is dependent on getting a vaccine, and trying to negotiate for the Oxford vaccine:

 
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The last Danish shipyard ( LIndo shipyard near Odense ) shut down in 2012, well it is getting rebuild,,,,,,,, in Adelaide / Australia, cuz Aussies know a good think then they see it.
Not that the British dont they will build 5 frigates designed there, what we Danes call the Huitfeldt class frigates they just call them Arrowhead 140

If the Aussies get their hands on the IP, they are well off in shipbuilding, i have worked on ships made on Lindo and they ares indeed better then the one i sailed on that was made in South Korea.

So the Aussies probably wait for a good Danish vaccine too.
 
kamkar1 said:
The last Danish shipyard ( LIndo shipyard near Odense ) shut down in 2012, well it is getting rebuild,,,,,,,, in Adelaide / Australia, cuz Aussies know a good think then they see it.
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You converted your shipyard into a wind turbine factory, very sensible, will give your country far more income than building warships! But the Aussies like global warming so they would rather build warships!
 
Well i think it was more a case of the high wages here, and the fact it got harder and harder to cut tax breaks for the owner Maersk, so it became what we Danes call " a hot potato" no one want to hold.
But yeah some form of activity still happen on the former shipyard.

But it was ship building and design they really excelled at over there.

BTW Vestaas ( wind turbine maker ) just presented their budget, red numbers all over due to warranty repairs ASO as i understand, in spite of increased sales numbers.
 
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