COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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At least when i have visited my mother and get home, i will not have a official at my door the day after installing a surveillance camera in my apartment.
The good thing is we humans have many things in common with a virus / parasites, so this too will not be the end of us and we will continue to proliferate and remain the largest danger to us self.

AOC,,, Adapt - Overcome - Continue
 
If this becomes a seasonal virus like the typical cold is what can be done?
If most people have immunity then future outbreaks will not need lockdown, they will less of a problem than flu.

There is a good chance of a vaccine arriving, not for this coming winter, but the winter after, and given that it does not mutate like flu, the vaccine may well help to wipe it out permanently.

I am not convinced they are correct anyway, there are several countries nearly wiped it out, New Zealand has announced that they have exterminated it, and if they can when they have very little immunity, it should be very easy for countries with immunity.

That report is from China, where they have a problem because they don't have immunity, apart from Wuhan, and being a big country with many people packed into cities, it will be extremely difficult for them to exterminate it completely, so yes, for them it may become seasonal unless they change how they are dealing with it, although they seem to have a continuing stream of cases anyway.
 
There is a good chance of a vaccine arriving, not for this coming winter, but the winter after, and given that it does not mutate like flu, the vaccine may well help to wipe it out permanently.

there are several countries nearly wiped it out, New Zealand has announced that they have exterminated it, and if they can when they have very little immunity, it should be very easy for countries with immunity.
Another corona virus is the common cold. There has never been a vaccine against the common cold. Why would this corona virus not be as undefeatable by a vaccine as the common cold?

Can you provide a link that shows some countries have wiped out corona?
 
Another corona virus is the common cold. There has never been a vaccine against the common cold. Why would this corona virus not be as undefeatable by a vaccine as the common cold?

Can you provide a link that shows some countries have wiped out corona?
Several of the cold viruses are coronaviruses, but there are also many of them that are not coronaviruses. I think the reason for not having vaccines for the cold viruses is that there has been no commercial demand. On top of that, several of the cold viruses produce immunity that only lasts a year or two, and a few only a month or two. Treating them with vaccines would be a huge effort every year or two for little benefit, since few people get seriously ill from colds. It used to take 7 years to develop a vaccine, a huge expense, but now we can manipulate the DNA on computers and apparently develop one in six months, so maybe if we succeed on this virus, we will go after some of the other cold viruses, at least the other coronaviruses. We still have to prove that we can do it though, which isn't certain, although listening to interviews with the Oxford scientists, there is a huge amount of optimism there.





 
New Zealand hasn't 'eliminated it'; by their very own words it's just down to low single-digit range and they cannot find any more contact-passed cases now. They had one of the strictest lockdowns and also the least trouble with the disease, which is at least for now a great success. If might prove an overwhelming success if there is no great immunity caused by having the disease, and at this point no such immunity has been documented anywhere yet. In fact some are saying that there may be no such immunity, in which case those who've let this disease more-or-less run rampant (as most countries have) will have needlessly lost many lives and lose many more in times to come. That possibility is scary to the extreme.

To me anyway, it's very clear that people would pay well for an effective common cold vaccine- they already spend lots and lots of money on OTC meds to mitigate the symptoms (which they usually don't do very well with). Eliminating the seasonal common cold and seasonal 'normal' flues probably ranks higher in what people want than cures for uncommom cancers which do truly affect very few people. Some might even rank that higher than curing all cancers simply because so very many are afflicted by these seasonal buggars. Which may even come about if we can learn enough about Covid-19 and corona viruses in general; we already know that the 'corona' part plays a role in how communicable the diseases are and in how the body responds to them, so if some DNA-level agent could be found or made to eliminate the corona' effects it might prove effective for all the 'corona' types. This would be the direction I'd want to go in if I were seeking the best long-term results from research funding. In a similar vein, if one could find a way to stop the out-of-control cell growth which typifies cancers, then that one solution could possibly work for all types or cancers. But in time I'm sure that no matter what we do, nature will evolve something else to make our previous cures and vaccines less effective or ineffective, or maybe even bring forth new forms of disease via evolution. It seems to be fate and an integral part of life to have disease among us, but we can still try to do what we can against them.

Phil
 
The governor did not ask for businesses to close. The governors order made them close.
There is a huge difference between asking for cooperation and doing this.

Actions like this in different states by various governors is why some people have protested.

Kittery Trading Post ruled ‘non-essential,’ attorney general mandates closure

Amaral expressed concern this week that many of the license plates in the Kittery Trading Post parking lot are from out of state and states with higher rates of COVID-19 infection.

On Thursday, she said, “If they are deemed non-essential, we will take the action necessary to make sure they close down.”

The Kittery Trading Post on Wednesday took to Facebook to outline health and safety precautions the store has taken in light of the coronavirus pandemic.

Here is what the trading post said about being shut down.
 
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The governor did not ask for businesses to close. The governors order made them close.
There is a huge difference between asking for cooperation and doing this.

Actions like this in different states by various governors is why some people have protested.

Kittery Trading Post ruled ‘non-essential,’ attorney general mandates closure

Amaral expressed concern this week that many of the license plates in the Kittery Trading Post parking lot are from out of state and states with higher rates of COVID-19 infection.

On Thursday, she said, “If they are deemed non-essential, we will take the action necessary to make sure they close down.”

The Kittery Trading Post on Wednesday took to Facebook to outline health and safety precautions the store has taken in light of the coronavirus pandemic.

Here is what the trading post said about being shut down.

You are quite right, "There is a huge difference between asking for cooperation and doing 'this'". Obviously, the reason Governor Mills went with an executive order is precisely to prevent rogue corporations and businesses like Kittery Trading Post from acting in their own self interests rather than in the interest of public health and welfare.

There is a "huge difference" between voluntarily cooperation in an effort to save lives and reduce strain on overburdened hospital systems during a public health emergency and refusing to cooperate with a Governor's mandated order to close non-essential businesses.

With the spirit of "public good" in mind, LL Bean and Cabela’s, both selling merchandise similar to the Kittery Trading Post, voluntarily closed before Govenor Mills’ executive order. In fact, out of 120 stores at the Kittery Outlets, the Kittery Trading Post is the ONLY retailer that has defied the executive order.

The Kittery Trading Post happens to be in York County Maine, a major tourist destination. York County has the second highest number of documented COVID-19 cases in the entire state of Maine. Nevertheless, rather than follow the executive order which prohibits social gatherings of more than 10 people, and temporary closure of non-essential business, the Kittery Trading Post has decided it is somehow OK to remain open and that 100 customers in the store at once is just fine.

Regardless of whether governors of different states have asked for voluntary compliance or have mandated compliance, these are ALL temporary orders that are only days or at most a couple of weeks away from ending depending on the data and modeling coming in from each location. Data clearly shows that in states with high levels of voluntary compliance, reported cases of COVID-19, as well as deaths have been declining rapidly leading to sooner than originally expected lifting of shut-down orders.

Only reckless, selfish, entitled, individuals or businesses are the ones protesting these orders.

LL Bean and Cabela’s are the true Patriots here. Unfortunately, Kittery Trading Post has besmirched it's own reputation with it's actions and people will remember this going forward.
 
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You are quite right, "There is a huge difference between asking for cooperation and doing 'this'".
There is a "huge difference" between voluntarily cooperation...and refusing to cooperate with a Governor's mandated order.

Regardless of whether governors of different states have asked for voluntary compliance or have mandated compliance, these are ALL ...orders
The important point made is the one you missed or avoided. The governors order was a mandate and would have imposed fines if it was not followed. There was no request asking for voluntary compliance. When and how did the people alive today knowingly and willingly agree to take orders from any state governor?

The protesters protested mandates and orders coming from the executive branch that is only supposed to enforce not to create laws. The protests were not intended to oppose ignorable requests the protesters did not agree with. The protests were about what were declared to be legally binding orders that were not even laws that had been properly passed by the legislature as required by state constitutions.

How is a temporary violation or destruction of a right less damaging than if that denial lasts forever? If a right can be denied for a week, surely it can be denied for a month (like this one has). If it can be denied for a month why not a year? If it can be denied for a year why can't it be denied for a century or for all eternity? How can a right be considered to be a right if that right can be denied?

Some people still live according to principles that the founders believed in.

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” Thomas Jefferson

"Life without Liberty is like a body without spirit. Liberty without thought is like a disturbed spirit ... Life, liberty, and thought three persons in one substance, eternal, never-ending, and unceasing." Khalil Gibran
 
Italy, NYC, and now England have all found the same thing about who dies from corona. The already seriously sick with underlying health conditions are the ones dying from corona just like they do when infected by the flu every year.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/sky-news-95-of-england-covid-19-victims-had-underlying-conditions?


The old, sick, and seriously disabled probably should stay at home. Why should the healthy be forced to stay home considering these facts?
 
How long before all stocks sell out?
Scientists are testing whether an ingredient contained in some insect repellents could kill the coronavirus, after the British army claimed that preliminary tests showed it may provide some protection them COVID-19.

Some UK soldiers have already been issued with the insect repellent Mosi-guard, Sky News reported , while testing begins to confirm whether it could be effective against the current outbreak.

Mosi-guard contains Citridiol, which is an ingredient contained in some insect repellents, and has been known to kill some other strains of coronavirus, the Ministry of Defence said. "Citriodiol is known to have anti-viral properties and has been used as a barrier against the SARS 1 virus,"

The spray is being used by soldiers working on the UK's response to the pandemic.

Promising results:
Six rhesus macaques received a vaccine produced by the Jenner Institute and the Oxford Vaccine Group. They were then exposed to heavy levels of the coronavirus that were known to have previously sickened other monkeys. These monkeys suffered no ill effects, however, and remained healthy at least 28 days later

Despite the lack of proof of its effectiveness, the Serum Institute of India, the world's largest vaccine manufacturer, vouched to start making doses of the vaccine in case it worked. At an average, the company produces 1.5 billion vaccine doses a year for an array of diseases.

Adar Poonawalla, the CEO of the Serum Institute of India, said that the institute plans to produce 5 million units of the vaccine in a month, continuously for six months. He admitted to wanting to get a jump-start on manufacturing and to have enough doses available if the clinical trials prove to be successful.

He adds that to get ahead of demand, they will start production right away. He stresses that the decision to do so was at their own risk and cost.

Poonawalla says they are planning to make the vaccine available at an affordable price of around 1,000 rupees in India, roughly $13.
 
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But last week, BARDA’s director Rick Bright was removed and reassigned to the NIH. He has said he will file a whistle-blower complaint, alleging the White House retaliated against him because he resisted promoting widespread use of malaria drugs Trump has touted for coronavirus.

The drugs, chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, haven’t been proven effective against the virus and some clinical trials have been abandoned because of dangerous side effects. After directing the government to obtain more than 29 million doses of the drug, Trump has recently stopped promoting the medicine as a coronavirus treatment.

He claimed last week that he didn’t know Bright and was unaware of his removal.
 
When and how did the people alive today knowingly and willingly agree to take orders from any state governor?
If you don't know this simple thing you're totally unqualified to act knowledgeable about any part of any political process or to take part in it. Seriously :(

In every Nation everywhere, when citizenship is conferred onto someone, there is implied consent of that person to obey ALL the laws of that Nation; you don't get to pick and choose among them. As a minor you have no choice of citizenship, but on reaching majority age if you haven't been granted citizenship elsewhere AND left the Nation of your origin, by default you've chosen to temain and be it's citizen. You willingly agreed when you didn't leave. You cannot just reject your citizenship and disobey any laws as you please. That goes from Federal to State to all lesser political subdivisions below that. If you don't like the laws of a State or how they are administered you are free to leave it, but as long as you remain within it's borders you must obey it's laws and live with how they are administered. Which is why I won't step foot in 2 States :cautious: If a State's Governor is legally empowered to issue orders closing businesses, making citizens wear face masks in public, or whatever the people in that State must obey until such a time where through the legal process that directive is legally deemed improper for whatever reason. Until overturned in this manner all laws stand.

And if you're going to post Court rulings, please be sure they're current and haven't been revised or overturned by later rulings, which many cases have. Some have been 'modified' in this manner numerous times to the point that the original ruling means nothing in a Court of Law now, and when you post such things in their original form without mentioning the supercession you mislead people.

Sheesh. This is exactly why I don't believe in granting rights or priveleges beyond the God-given ones to people until you ensue they can properly handle the inherent responsibilities that go along with them. This is why unrestricted Democracies fail.

Phil
 
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The important point made is the one you missed or avoided. The governors order was a mandate and would have imposed fines if it was not followed. There was no request asking for voluntary compliance. When and how did the people alive today knowingly and willingly agree to take orders from any state governor?

The protesters protested mandates and orders coming from the executive branch that is only supposed to enforce not to create laws. The protests were not intended to oppose ignorable requests the protesters did not agree with. The protests were about what were declared to be legally binding orders that were not even laws that had been properly passed by the legislature as required by state constitutions.

How is a temporary violation or destruction of a right less damaging than if that denial lasts forever? If a right can be denied for a week, surely it can be denied for a month (like this one has). If it can be denied for a month why not a year? If it can be denied for a year why can't it be denied for a century or for all eternity? How can a right be considered to be a right if that right can be denied?

Some people still live according to principles that the founders believed in.

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” Thomas Jefferson

"Life without Liberty is like a body without spirit. Liberty without thought is like a disturbed spirit ... Life, liberty, and thought three persons in one substance, eternal, never-ending, and unceasing." Khalil Gibran

Firstly, the "dangerous freedom" Thomas Jefferson was referring to was rebellion in the face of "real tyranny", i.e. living in "peaceful slavery" under a brutal monarchy. He was talking about true "patriots" willing to risk their lives to defeat real tyranny.

As with virtually all of the modern "Patriot" movement, your notion of "Liberty" is a perversion of what the founders intended. And your quoting of Jefferson is nothing more than a self serving perversion of the true meaning and intent what he was talking about.

The founders saw "Freedom and Liberty" in a collective sense. You know, the "We the People" thing. When we Americans recite the pledge of allegiance to the flag we say the words, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for ALL.

Your version of "Liberty" is different. Your version of liberty is a "Me Generation" thing. Your version of liberty is all about you and you alone! F*UCK everyone else!

Your version of liberty says, "MY" individual rights exceed "YOUR" individual rights. And according to YOUR version of liberty YOU have the right to put everyone else's life in danger because somehow YOUR liberty and individual rights are more important than everyone else's individual rights and the greater good to society.

But that's not what indivisible means. INDIVISIBLE means - "not divisible; not separable into parts."

Sadly, people like you don't seem to realize that your version of liberty was bought and paid for by extremely wealthy individuals like the Koch brothers, Robert Mercer and others using highly effective influence campaigns for their own special interest political purposes.

Certainly, Thomas Jefferson would be appalled by the modern so called "Patriot" movement.

And certainly Kahlil Gibran would be appalled that you subvert his poetry to promote such philosophies and the resulting selfish, dangerous behavior as well.
 
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Firstly, the "dangerous freedom" Thomas Jefferson was referring to was rebellion in the face of "real tyranny", i.e. living in "peaceful slavery" under a brutal monarchy. He was talking about true "patriots" willing to risk their lives to defeat real tyranny. Your version of liberty is all about you and you alone! Sadly, people like you don't seem to realize that your version of liberty was bought and paid for by extremely wealthy individuals...
If you think the current government can not be brutal try to 1. sue a judge after that judge violates your rights. 2. sue a prosecutor who withholds evidence and presents a falsified case. 3. sue a police officer who shoots you in the back while you are unarmed and going away from that officer. 4. sue the state for violating your rights. 5. when you act according to your constitutionally recognized tights and get beaten or killed for it by the police.

All of these have happened and reported many times. Justice has been denied by the Courts and the legislatures with the executive branch refusing to uphold the highest law; the constitutions state and federal.

My version of liberty is about protecting the rights of everyone. Have you ever put yourself in a position where you risked your own money and spent a lot of time trying to get a government (local, county, state, or federal) to operate according to its charter when it was operating outside of its legal ability to act? Until you have spent a lot of your time and your own money trying to fight for an honest government that operates with honor I ask you to be quiet. I have spent a lot of money and time hoping to find integrity and government and found the government violates its own laws and constitution and refuses to correct itself.

I have the right to stay home. Joe and Tim have the right to protest. As long as I am not infected which would require quarantine why would my rights be limited because someone else was sick?
 
In every Nation everywhere, when citizenship is conferred onto someone, there is implied consent of that person to obey ALL the laws of that Nation

Phil
You made my point for me. That consent is inferred or considered to have been implied but consent is never actually given by any of the people except those who get certain government jobs. The problem is that the government violates its own rules as they are written. No one is presumed to have implied consent to tyranny by government. If everyone is equal under the law then no immunity can exist. Everyone, presidents, governors, legislators, judges, prosecutors etc. must all be equally legally accountable whenever they violate the rights of another or equal protection does not exist.

If you read the constitutions they are beautiful documents that fully recognize the peoples rights. If you apply the constitutions (state and federal) as a reasonable layman would understand those documents you can not understand how judges refuse to apply those constitutions according to the reasonable layman standard. How would a non-legally trained layman read those words and apply them?
 
This is not about me or others in just one state.
I see a bigger picture from the protests reacting to a problem as mentioned here.


 
How is this lockdown impacting people like business owners? Watch this.


This is perhaps the most important comment on her own video.

Lee'Ann Delcourt · 1:11 Many people in the USA have absolutely no understanding of the frustration and angst that many self-employed and small business owners are experiencing right now. And when they say to us, “is your livelihood more important than a human life?” it really demonstrates just how clueless they are to how we feel, what we think, and the many challenges we have overcome to get to where we are. They think we are worried about lining our pockets and want more $$$. It is absurd - and insulting - for any of them to think that because we want to save our businesses that we don’t care about the sick, have no empathy, or that we are not concerned about those who are vulnerable to the virus, or that we are simply selfish and self-centered.

They don’t understand. And the simple truth is, they can’t understand…and they will never understand. They have not walked in our shoes. They do not know the sacrifices we have made. They have no idea how much we have cried, pinched, and prayed, wondering if we will make it or the risks we’ve had to take. How we work 24/7 and it never shuts off - years of sleepless nights, stress and worry. They were not there when we celebrated the first year we broke even - not made a profit - just broke even and saw the potential of our dream. And that dream employed others, and met other needs! They don’t know the weight of responsibility a business owner feels for their employees. No, they collect a check and get to turn off the lights and go home, not worrying about how to make payroll, or rent, insurance, etc. They may be working or they may be at home, enjoying the time off, feeling inconvenienced, but is their life decimated? I think not.

So, please, they need to stop judging us and stop trying to shame us! They should stop pretending that they “get it” and “understand” because they don’t. They expect that our lives should come to a screeching halt while they sit in their office or work from home and experience a bit of inconvenience. Meanwhile, their paycheck is being direct deposited into their bank account while government destroys what we spent our entire lives to build. We still have bills to pay, food to put on our tables, and financial responsibilities that do not halt simply because we are told to shut our doors.

We are angry and frustrated. And it’s not because we can’t go buy seeds to plant tomatoes or go buy a sports bra at Target. Instead, we must literally sit by with hands tied by a government that says we can’t save what we’ve worked our entire lives for. We are watching more lives ruined long-term and far beyond when we get to go back to our work. We want to save our businesses and be able to salvage what is left and pray to God we will be able to provide for our families because there is no one else and no boss writing a check to us. Oh, and who pays for our health insurance? Our boss? Um, that also disappears as there is no income coming in to pay those unbelievable premiums. What do we do when the Stay at Home mandate from our Governor is lifted?

What will be left? Who will have a business left? You think that once it is lifted, then, boom, money starts to pour back in? No... not how it works for most businesses.. the blood, sweat and tears and rebuilding begin again...

I would love be at home wondering what to do with myself or working out all day! During this time, I would love to homeschool my kids all day and not be worried about how to pay the mortgage, and be more rested than ever before, as others are telling me. Instead, we choose to give whatever we can to the couple of employees we have left, and make sure they still have an income and health insurance.

So, when you see people protest and upset with restrictions that are not fair or justified, know that it isn’t because we are tired of being at home and inconvenienced.. or sick of cooking, or bored.. no, it actually is because we know that soon there will be nothing left or pieces to pick back up.

For those business owners and self-employed, we applaud you. We understand. We are praying that you find a way to make ends meet because we know that you aren’t home collecting a paycheck. Stand strong and we will get through this. You are some of the strongest people I know. Our faith carries us in a time of great uncertainty and anguish..And we will continue to walk in Faith.. ❤️

'copied and shared but very true'
 
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