Disappointed with Viofo for Abandoning A129 Duo Owners

[DarthMaul]

How many have reported the RANDOMLY dropped frame in front? I've only heard of one person having this problem, but randomly and not able to knowingly reproduce it because it happens randomly.

I didn't notice any dropped frames on the front or rear camera. Could be an isolate case, and it can be caused by the SD card, or maybe a faulty camera.

 

[HonestReview]

How many have reported the RANDOMLY dropped frame in front? I've only heard of one person having this problem, but randomly and not able to knowingly reproduce it because it happens randomly.

Only problem I see is the g-sensor in parking mode. It's only benefit would be to lock the file of an event.

If something bumps the car door, video won't pick it up anyway unless you have the cameras mounted to the sides instead of front/rear. The front/rear cameras may pick up something coming/going before or after the triggered event, but they'd do that anyway using the motion detection or if using low bitrate mode. It just won't lock the file in a special folder.

G-sensor sensitivity will be different for different sized vehicles and would ideally need a wide range of adjustment. A bump to the door on a Miata is more easily detected at the front unit than a bump on a passenger door of a sedan or SUV.

A duplicate frame every 92 on the rear camera may be an annoyance, but really only if you just sit and watch all the footage from the rear cam. Who does that? I'm not trying to make Omni Max quality videos to post on social media with my dashcam, not many people do. I rarely watch my videos from the cam, and if/when I do I'm pretty much skipping through or watching at 2x speed until I get to the event I am looking for.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

It's a bug. I have confirmed the dropped frame issue after it was raised here and it definitely affects all A129 Duo users. A duplicate frame every 92 is a major annoyance. No one is expecting cinema quality, but it'd be nice to have playback smooth and without jitters should an event be captured. But this issue, while annoying, is definitely on the same level as a dropped frame. Which again, affects 100% of users.

 

[HonestReview]

I didn't notice any dropped frames on the front or rear camera. Could be an isolate case, and it can be caused by the SD card, or maybe a faulty camera.

It's there. I've seen it. Unfortunately, the issue is more random than the duped frame every 92 frames. But the fact that any video is dropping a frame is quite disconcerning.

 

[Gooffeyguy]

It's a bug. I have confirmed the dropped frame issue after it was raised here and it definitely affects all A129 Duo users. A duplicate frame every 92 is a major annoyance. No one is expecting cinema quality, but it'd be nice to have playback smooth and without jitters should an event be captured. But this issue, while annoying, is definitely on the same level as a dropped frame. Which again, affects 100% of users.

So how random is it? Once per 3 min video segment, once an hour, once daily, weekly, monthly?

Saying something happens randomly is pretty vague and probably why it's not considered a priority

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[jokiin]

So how random is it? Once per 3 min video segment, once an hour, once daily, weekly, monthly?

Saying something happens randomly is pretty vague and probably why it's not considered a priority

random bugs are the hardest to solve, you can't really solve them until they're repeatable, once they are and you know the cause then you can fix them

 

[Prelude89]

I think there's been plenty of time to fix these issues.

More assumptions.

And you make it sound like ripping out a properly installed camera (hard wired, cords ran, etc) is a fun and easy task. It's not.

I've run enough cables in cars to know the job can be hard, but you have to make a decision. Bellyache and wait, possibly forever, or bite the bullet and make the change.

That's Viofo's call, but it shows that their product support is short sided. Instead of addressing current issues, they'll move on to another product line and "phase out" the problem.

History is littered with things like this. There are loads of products that have been left behind, simply because there's no profit in fixing issues. This is a MASSIVE problem with cheaper end stuff. Mobile phones are renowned for this. This is why I say, if you're not getting the performance you expect, move on now, rather than waiting for a fix that may never come.

If you are still using your a129, then I suggest to you the flaws are not as bad as are making them out to be.

These issues are longstanding.

That doesn't mean Viofo, or anyone else that has to do work to fix the issues, see them as problems worth fixing.

People running their dashcams in parking mode with a decent parking battery risk losing the moment their car was hit because the important moment was not locked and the file was overwritten.

If you're leaving your car in parking mode for 17 hours a stretch (the amount you get on 128gb card at full rate recording), I suggest you buy a 256gb card! If you switch to low bit rate recording, you get a load more hours.

but randomly and not able to knowingly reproduce it because it happens randomly.

Working in the field of PC repairs, this is a major issue. Customer tells me his PC is crashing randomly. Unless I can reproduce the issue, there is simply no way to diagnose a solution. It's even harder if I can't get the PC to crash at all.

A duplicate frame every 92 is a major annoyance.

Rubbish. 1 frame extra every 3 or so seconds would be hardly noticeable, and I bet the vast majority of viewers wouldn't even pick it up while casually watching a video.

 

[HonestReview]

So how random is it? Once per 3 min video segment, once an hour, once daily, weekly, monthly?

Saying something happens randomly is pretty vague and probably why it's not considered a priority

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

This thread has gone on a while. @gabilondo77 first identified the dropped frames / duplicate frame every 92 frames. We can isolate where and how the problems occurred. In firmware V 1.11, neither dropped or duplicate frames existed. However, this firmware did not support parking mode. So my guess / intuition is that when parking mode was added in the next firmware, both bugs were introduced.

You're welcome to read through the 21 pages of this thread if you want a more in depth explanation.

 

[HonestReview]

random bugs are the hardest to solve, you can't really solve them until they're repeatable, once they are and you know the cause then you can fix them

Well these aren't all necessarily random.

1. Firmware V 1.11 - Before Parking Mode had Zero Dropped Frames and Zero Duplicate Frames.
2. After firmware 1.11, these bugs were introduced.
3. Post 1.11, Dupe frame occurs every 92 frames.
4. Dropped frame is indeed random.

 

[Nigel]

It's there. I've seen it. Unfortunately, the issue is more random than the duped frame every 92 frames. But the fact that any video is dropping a frame is quite disconcerning.

If disconcerning is the opposite of concerning then why do we need a long thread about it?

The 92 frames duplicate is not perfect but there is no lost data so it is not a real problem, just an issue that would be nice to get fixed, and hopefully when the next firmware arrives using the updated SDK, it will have been fixed.

You haven't answered the question on how often the dropped frame occurs, most people have never seen it so I don't think it can be a serious problem. Is it once a day, once an hour, only in weak phone reception areas when your phone transmits a high power data burst once a minute that corrupts the frame data, or only when an alien spacecraft flies overhead?

 

[jokiin]

or only when an alien spacecraft flies overhead?

 

[Nigel]

View attachment 50323

The Kp-Index is very low at the moment so it is probably not a good time to go looking for lost frames!

Planetary K-index | NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center

www.swpc.noaa.gov

 

[Andy McKay]

Streetguardian took control and devlopes their own. Viofo can very easily demand that a resolution be created to the problem. It's not a minor bug, but one that affects their whole A129 Duo product line. Either that or tell the developer they'll go elsewhere. Plenty of people out there to resolve coding issues and that will gladly take on a project for money. You make it sound like Viofo has no choice here.

And you're continuing to what I would suspect is greatly oversimplifying things. Sure, maybe other companies have done things on their own, but it is unlikely that they did it in the middle of a product's lifecycle. They would most likely have had to design new products to use a different chipset, or custom design their own so that they had all the relevant specifications and documents to create an SDK/API framework on their own.

I'm not saying Viofo has no choice, but I am saying that you're not taking into account the complexity of the issue, and the fact that Viofo is but ONE of the customers of that SDK.

You're ALSO underestimating the timeframe that some things can be fixed. The time to trace the cause, the development time required to develop the patch, the different levels of testing that is required. You're making this out to be a case of someone sitting down and changing something that says:

if  (x < y)
{
     do this
}
else
{
     do that
}

to

if  (x > y)
{
     do this
}
else
{
     do that
}

Now, I don't work for Viofo, but I do work for an electronics company. A large one with far greater resources available to them than Viofo. And what you're demanding would even be a bit much for a company of that size. You're not talking about a catastrophic bug that renders multi-thousand dollar equipment less capable. You're talking about a dashcam that was a couple of hundred dollars that has, at worst, a minor annoyance of a duplicated frame every 3 seconds (seriously, that's 1/30 of a second every 3 seconds) and a randomly occurring dropped frame. If it comes down to that exact single 1/90 chance of missing a plate number, you probably weren't going to get it anyway. If it really is that catastrphic for you, and you're not happy with Viofo's response, really, just sell the camera and buy something else. You'll be a lot happier.

Your crusade is just going to serve to put Viofo off taking it seriously. You've moved well beyond providing reasonable feedback and onto screaming at windmills.

 

[Paul Iddon]

It's also possible, maybe even highly likely, that Viofo (and other manufacturers) are in a contract with the SDK supplier, and to stop using it would be a breach of contract that could cost them financially, and affect their business adversely.

Street Guardian may have taken control of there's, but if they were not in a contract or had reached the end of an agreement, were then able to make their own move.

I don't have this cam now (moved on) but as for extra frames, I once saw a starling beat its wings twice as a it flew through the frame, and I never saw a dropped frame.

I also think that 99% of people would never even know of any issues, and that only members of forums such as this ever find out about issues. Indeed, I would hedge my bets that if this or the Viofo community were not available, the world would be completely unaware of dropped and duplicate frames, and it would not be an issue.

It would be interesting to know how those who have complained of this even realised it was happening and indeed, why they even looked for the issue in the first place!

 

[DT MI]

...You've moved well beyond providing reasonable feedback and onto screaming at windmills.

 

[HonestReview]

If disconcerning is the opposite of concerning then why do we need a long thread about it?

The 92 frames duplicate is not perfect but there is no lost data so it is not a real problem, just an issue that would be nice to get fixed, and hopefully when the next firmware arrives using the updated SDK, it will have been fixed.

You haven't answered the question on how often the dropped frame occurs, most people have never seen it so I don't think it can be a serious problem. Is it once a day, once an hour, only in weak phone reception areas when your phone transmits a high power data burst once a minute that corrupts the frame data, or only when an alien spacecraft flies overhead?

@gabilondo77 referenced the dropped frames on multiple videos. He'd be more inclined to point out the exact circumstances. I personally don't recall 6 months later what video or where I experienced the issue, too. And I have zero resolve to go hunting through my dash cam videos frame at a time to locate another instance.

 

[DT MI]

...And I have zero resolve to go hunting through my dash cam videos frame at a time to locate another instance.

So much for it being a major failure.

 

[Nigel]

 

[jokiin]

Streetguardian took control and devlopes their own. Viofo can very easily demand that a resolution be created to the problem. It's not a minor bug, but one that affects their whole A129 Duo product line. Either that or tell the developer they'll go elsewhere. Plenty of people out there to resolve coding issues and that will gladly take on a project for money. You make it sound like Viofo has no choice here.

before this gets out of hand let me clarify, we do not write our own SDK, that's how you make it sound

what we do have now that we didn't have before is full SDK access which means we can implement our own changes in the SDK rather than having to wait for someone else to make the changes, there's a few reasons we wanted this, one is that it can in some circumstances make it quicker to get changes done, the main one though is that previously all our changes ended up in the SDK that everyone else had access to so other suppliers were benefiting from all our debug and feature development without doing a thing, I'm all for the industry improving and the standard being raised but when we do all the work and bear all the expense it becomes a bit much

 

[DarthMaul]

before this gets out of hand let me clarify, we do not write our own SDK, that's how you make it sound

what we do have now that we didn't have before is full SDK access which means we can implement our own changes in the SDK rather than having to wait for someone else to make the changes, there's a few reasons we wanted this, one is that it can in some circumstances make it quicker to get changes done, the main one though is that previously all our changes ended up in the SDK that everyone else had access to so other suppliers were benefiting from all our debug and feature development without doing a thing, I'm all for the industry improving and the standard being raised but when we do all the work and bear all the expense it becomes a bit much

Yes, but it paid off. Street Guardian seems to have the best reputation among dashcam manufacturers...

 

[Prelude89]

what we do have now that we didn't have before is full SDK access which means we can implement our own changes in the SDK rather than having to wait for someone else to make the changes,

How do you go about folding in changes you have made when a new SDK is released? Or have you decided the SDK you have is the one you'll modify, and not bother with any newer SDK's for a given product?