Do we really need 60P on a dash cam?

Do you want a 60P Dash Cam?


  • Total voters
    54
.......I have noticed an increase in footage where half the screen is someone's dash! or the cam is tilted so high as to be washed out with the slightest bit of light....

It may be footage from my cams that you're seeing posted. I usually run two front cams with one mounted high and one low.
I find the high one suffers from windscreen dash reflection in daylight due to shallow windscreen angle, but at night the low one suffers from oncoming headlight glare or puddle reflections.
I am also limited in where I can fit a cam due to an enormous sensor housing on the top middle of my windscreen.

A couple of screenshots showing the difference it can make when the sun is on the frontal arc:

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Thank you again 2000rpm. Which pics were taken with which model Cobra? You only list an 840 in your sig.

To paraphrase you said "60fps better with high speeds in good light, 30fps better with slow speeds and in poor light" which makes so much sense that I wonder if any mfrs have considered if they could AUTOMATICALLY alter res & fps according to e.g. a night detection photocell sensor.

The cross-country trips that I like a dash cam for are mostly at (very) high speeds i.e. 70-80mph, though of course sometimes going through cities, or slowing/stopping for gas/food/rest every few hours causes slowdowns.

I suppose there are truckers' forums where these things are discussed. I am not especially thrilled with my Blacksys CF-100 but neither am I all that impressed by other video I've seen, most of which tends to be at slower speeds.

It would be nice if this board had a "best" thread where posters could argue which dash cam got the best results for them. For me this is a "money is no object" thing but the hundreds of models on the market these days are just too much to research....

:confused:

Both cams were Cobras (notice the two images look very similar apart from motion blur), mounted adjacent to each other. The 1080p30 image was then cropped and laid over the top of the 720p60 image in the Cobra player.

The picture was mainly created for my own records and not necessarily intended for a public forum, although it seemed relevant to this topic so I posted it. I keep it as a reminder that in daylight and high speed 720p60 can outperform 1080p30.
At slower speeds and low light conditions 1080p30 outperforms; in the former it's because the car doesn't move too far across the cam's field of view at slower speed (less blur) and in the latter it's because 60fps doesn't give long enough exposure for good night images.
 
Thank you again 2000rpm. Which pics were taken with which model Cobra? You only list an 840 in your sig.

Pics could be either two Cobra 840 or a 840 and 820 because at one time I had a Cobra 840 and a Cobra 820 (extremely small cam, ideal for stealthiness).

The Cobra 820 was very unreliable due to random shutdowns (about half of all journeys would have a shutdown at some point). I politely emailed Cobra customer service for advice on the erratic 820, detailing everything I had tried to make it work. They sent me out a free 'upgrade' to the Cobra 840 and let me keep the 820 which I never managed to get to work consistently so it ended up in the bin. So now I have two Cobra 840. Video quality and all available settings appeared to be identical between the two cams, except the 840 has GPS.

I have a few other duplicates too, because until several months ago we were running four cars with front+rear cams - often 2x front and 1x rear. Now we have three cars and I have a handful of spare cams.


.....To paraphrase you said "60fps better with high speeds in good light, 30fps better with slow speeds and in poor light" which makes so much sense that I wonder if any mfrs have considered if they could AUTOMATICALLY alter res & fps according to e.g. a night detection photocell sensor....

@JooVuu's X-cam has a menu option for two different recording modes, with the cam switching at a pre-set time. The X can do 2560*1080p/30fps and 1920*1080p/60fps which could make good night/day recordings but I haven't tried the timed mode on my X so can't comment on whether it's functional yet. The downside to the 60fps option on most cams is that the field of view narrows by (e.g. 1920p instead of 2560p or 1280p instead of 1920p).

...The cross-country trips that I like a dash cam for are mostly at (very) high speeds i.e. 70-80mph, though of course sometimes going through cities, or slowing/stopping for gas/food/rest every few hours causes slowdowns.
I suppose there are truckers' forums where these things are discussed. I am not especially thrilled with my Blacksys CF-100 but neither am I all that impressed by other video I've seen, most of which tends to be at slower speeds.
It would be nice if this board had a "best" thread where posters could argue which dash cam got the best results for them. For me this is a "money is no object" thing but the hundreds of models on the market these days are just too much to research....

:confused:

I've been working on my own version of a rough-and-ready scoring system for cams (based on currently available cams) where they are graded on what I consider to be the main factors:
1. Ability to capture details/long-range plate reading.
2. Field of view.
3. Night image brightness.

Unfortunately, improving one of the above tends to worsen one or more of the others.
As you have a CF-100, I'll tell you that I score mine as about 4/10 for details, 9/10 for field of view and 9/10 for low light.
The Cobra (on 1080p30) mentioned above is almost the opposite, with about 10/10 for details (I haven't found anything able to surpass the Cobra's long-sightedness in daylight), 5/10 for field of view (on sharp corners some things can slip past unseen by the cam!) and 6/10 for low light.
 
Ah, thanks again 2000rpm for explaining about the two Cobras you have. And for you to relate your experiences is invaluable; there are so many here, like me perhaps, who have experience with a couple of dash cams and other (I have an action cam too) but these things really do need some personal experiences to evaluate them effectively (it's very hard to find ORIGINAL VIDEO of cams that have ALL THE CONDITIONS one might be interested in whether daytime, nighttime, slow speed, high speed, weather, etc).

Would you say the Cobra 840 is "the best" of the cams you own?
 
....Would you say the Cobra 840 is "the best" of the cams you own?...

The Cobra sees great detail during the day but its night performance is well below that of the best cameras - and its narrow field of view means it might not see something far off to the side. The ideal dashcam strikes a balance between those conflicting features (improving one thing tends to adversely affect something else).

Due to the large amount of storage space required to hold video clips (and a very poor internet connection even if I wanted to upload footage) I tend to just take a handful of interesting screenshots from any comparisons I make so I can look back at the key differences between cams.

Of all the cams I own, the SGZC12RC-V2 probably has one of the best combinations of detail, field of view and night ability (detail 6/10, fov 10/10, night 9/10) plus the benefit of being an easy-to-hide 'lens on a wire'. The JooVuu X (detail 8/10, fov 9/10, night 7.5/10) is a very strong contender too but can sometimes cause me frustration due to minor bugs in the software that are gradually being dealt with. The X can do 1080p60 (which is what this topic was about).
 
Another nice post 2000rpm.

Another question I might have about 60p is that given it takes-up more storage space, some cam mfrs should consider perhaps an optional "warning" in the Loop-recording capability. So if you wanted e.g. to make sure you keep a particularly scenic drive available, the cam would warn you that it is about to loop-back on itself, and you could pull off the road and change-out the SD card.

Yeah I know that's pretty anal; but I like cams for "scenic posterity" and not just "accident recording just in case" ... :)
 
Another nice post 2000rpm.

Another question I might have about 60p is that given it takes-up more storage space, some cam mfrs should consider perhaps an optional "warning" in the Loop-recording capability. So if you wanted e.g. to make sure you keep a particularly scenic drive available, the cam would warn you that it is about to loop-back on itself, and you could pull off the road and change-out the SD card.

Yeah I know that's pretty anal; but I like cams for "scenic posterity" and not just "accident recording just in case" ... :)

Some cams allow the user to disable loop recording.

I run two front cams with at least one using a 64GB card (7-9 hours recording time for 1080p30) and I carry a spare 32GB micro sd in the glovebox.
If something particularly interesting happens on a long journey I'll either briefly turn the cam off to change the memory card before it starts overwriting (while stuck in traffic or just pull over somewhere or wait until I stop for food/fuel) or just switch off one of the cams so it can't overwrite.
 
here's an instance where capturing an oncoming front plate would have been useful. but with a combined closing speed of ~140mph, i couldn't even capture the larger VIN and DOT numbers on the side of the cab - i only had something like 2-3 frames where the truck was even close enough to try getting a plate or other identifier.

 
Another nice post 2000rpm.

Another question I might have about 60p is that given it takes-up more storage space, some cam mfrs should consider perhaps an optional "warning" in the Loop-recording capability. So if you wanted e.g. to make sure you keep a particularly scenic drive available, the cam would warn you that it is about to loop-back on itself, and you could pull off the road and change-out the SD card.

Yeah I know that's pretty anal; but I like cams for "scenic posterity" and not just "accident recording just in case" ... :)

bitrate rather than frame rate is the issue, how many mbit per second you write to memory determine how much data you create, not how many frames per second
 
If something particularly interesting happens on a long journey I'll either briefly turn the cam off to change the memory card before it starts overwriting (while stuck in traffic or just pull over somewhere or wait until I stop for food/fuel) or just switch off one of the cams so it can't overwrite.
Sure, but how do you know when it's about to overwrite itself? Or do you simply change the card when convenient, after the "something interesting happened" event? Do any cams actually warn you when memory is running out, when loop recording is turned off?
 
Sure, but how do you know when it's about to overwrite itself?

it's first in, first out, on most models that will mean anything you have recorded that you want to keep is going to be around 4 hours before it gets overwritten with a 32gb card
 
bitrate rather than frame rate is the issue, how many mbit per second you write to memory determine how much data you create, not how many frames per second
Aren't they related though. Yes, if a 30fps bitrate is 18Mbps and a 60fps bitrate is 18Mbps they will take-up the same amount of space, but it means that the 60fps stream is suffering from bit-starvation compared to 30fps.

This gets way too complicated for my brain to process, especially when mfrs play games with these params such as "FULL HD!!!!" when all they're doing is making a 1280x720 image out of a 640x480 sensor... :eek:
 
it's first in, first out, on most models that will mean anything you have recorded that you want to keep is going to be around 4 hours before it gets overwritten with a 32gb card
Yes, I know I can keep track of my bitrate/card capacity/time-to-replace but I was just wondering if any cams alerted you.
 
Aren't they related though. Yes, if a 30fps bitrate is 18Mbps and a 60fps bitrate is 18Mbps they will take-up the same amount of space, but it means that the 60fps stream is suffering from bit-starvation compared to 30fps.

This gets way too complicated for my brain to process, especially when mfrs play games with these params such as "FULL HD!!!!" when all they're doing is making a 1280x720 image out of a 640x480 sensor... :eek:

Not sure what bit starvation is?????

1280 x 720 would be HD not Full HD but yes there are lots of fake spec products out there, fake 4k is the latest con from many suppliers
 
Not sure what bit starvation is?????
Simply that if 60fps is twice the frames-per-second then each frame is getting half the bits (assuming same bitrate as a 30fps stream).

This site is too big/complex for my pea brain, I would love to find a technical discussion about optimal designs for dashcams i.e. lens, sensor, compression chipset, etc. It seems to me that cheap dashcams fail up-front (lens) and at-back (compression) though I'm no doubt naive about the in-between. The two or three cams I've played with do a poor job of compression--reminds me of the very early days of DVD i.e. 1996 or thereabouts.
 
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doesn't work out like that
Well I suppose "half the bits" is wrong, since each frame is probably storing only difference information (b or p-frames), but if you mean something different altogether by all means tell. Thanks.
 
Things get a bit messy with video compression with 60P vs 30P. It all depends on how it's compressed. In terms of raw data, yes 60P is double the data of 30P, but because at 60P we have lots more frames that are close differences between each frame we can have more "b" and "p" frames that take up less space. On the other hand, if the manufacturer follows the exact same "i", "b", and "p" sequences found on the 30P footage, on the 60P footage, then the compressed data size would double. (Unless they apply more compression to the 60P footage.)

Honestly, when you consider what could be done 10 years ago, it's amazing what we can do today.
 
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