How important is license plate capture?

[relive]

Hi everyone,

I am new here, and just started the process of researching my dashcam purchase. From my brief research, it seems that most dashcams currently on the market are not capable of reliably capturing US license plates when traveling at highway speeds, even during the day.

1080p simply isn't enough resolution when we're talking about a 140°+ field of view to render a readable license plate, unless it's very close and straight ahead. The 4k DR900S is better, but its resolving power is compromised by its extremely wide 162° FOV, so it's not measurably better than the 1440p Viofo cameras. Additionally, the bitrate on most dashcam models is far too low, and still frames turn into mush. I do understand that dashcams have limited processing power, so compression settings have to be tweaked for speed over quality, but this problem can be fixed by increasing the bitrate. While 100Mbps will drastically cut recording time, it will greatly increase the odds of identifying a license plate in the footage. This is not for everyone, but it seems that it should at least be an option, instead of the 25Mbps that the high end cameras top out at.

Finally, in reviews, few people discuss dynamic range of sensors, and I can't find anyone who has actually measured them at all. Most people talk about the "brightness" of footage, and use this as a metric to compare different cameras, but brighter footage does not mean that the quality is better. The only metrics that matter for forensics are resolution and dynamic range (signal-to-noise ratio). Furthermore, darker footage is often better than brighter footage, given the reflective nature of license plates. Once an area is blown out, no details can be recovered.

I have a two-part question:

1. Is it actually important in most cases to be able to capture a license plate? It matters for hit-and-runs, but how common are those events compared to "normal" incidents when dashcam footage is used help arbitrate a he said, she said situation?
2. If it actually is important, what is the best resolving dashcam currently on the market for both day and night recording, after tweaking with custom firmware?

 

[Fabio.he]

1, Capture license plate is important because it can be one of the most key evidence, and that's why the manufacturers, the sellers overhype their dash camera capable of seeing license plate clearly;

2, But as a matter of fact, the capability of seeing license plate clearly to all dash cameras is limited into a few of circumstances, for example, in good weather condition, near the target vehicle, etc, because the overwhelming majority of dash cameras don't have the technology to automatically and intelligently recognize the license plate, it means to see a license plate is no difference to see any other objects with the same size of license plate.

3, Accordingly, if based on the same external condition, the camera with higher resolution, or narrower viewing angle is a bit better to see the license plate, because more pixels can be averaged to "this object".

 

[Nigel]

I have a two-part question:

1. Is it actually important in most cases to be able to capture a license plate? It matters for hit-and-runs, but how common are those events compared to "normal" incidents when dashcam footage is used help arbitrate a he said, she said situation?
2. If it actually is important, what is the best resolving dashcam currently on the market for both day and night recording, after tweaking with custom firmware?

Welcome

1. Very hard to find any real data on this. If everybody obeys the law then it is unimportant, but we do get quite a few threads where it was considered important and they tend to be the higher profile threads. As well as hit and run, you/the police might want to find a witness that drove off, and here we may want to report some extremely dangerous driving by a BMW, if we got the number plate then the police will take their license away based purely on our dashcam evidence, without the plate capture the police will do nothing, however that is UK, I don't think USA police take any interest, plate or no plate.

2. Currently the Viofo A119 V3 is getting good comments, it is 1440 resolution with a relatively narrow field of view, so good for plates. Personally I prefer the Viofo A129 Pro because it has a normal field of view and 4K resolution, and decent bitrate, but isn't currently available (another month, or maybe two). There are a few other 1440 cameras about, but you also have to take into account the sensitivity of the sensor, the A119 V3 has one of the latest Sony Starvis sensors and so in the evening/night has less motion blur than others, and motion blur is a big enemy when reading plates in low light.

 

[TonyM]

I was a victim of a minor hit and run around 18 months ago. The only reason I could identify the other driver and eventually have my insurer mark the incident as non-fault was because one of my dashcams was able to read the licence plate of the other car.

 

[SawMaster]

Welcome to DCT @relive
US laws vary by State, but with most nothing gets done without verifiable evidence such as pics of a plate or extra witnesses. And even with that you might find them hesitant to prosecute or ticket someone. It is still something to consider when selecting a dashcam- you want the best chances you can get should your video ever really matter. A dashcam is as much a device to show you did no wrong as it is to show what others have done (which almost any cam can do) but as cheap as the really good ones are there's little point in not getting a good one. Viofo's latest offerings are worth a look and Street Guardian's cams are always top-quality, but there are several other good cams too based on your needs and price range.

Phil

 

[comadose]

Someone needs to make a smarter dashcam. One with a phone grade sensor that snaps high resolution stills whenever it detects a visible licence plate.

My Pixel phone can do that. It can record 4k video and when you tap it takes a full quality photo. Massive dynamic range, excellent resolution.

How about a dashcam that records in black and white? You don't really need colour for the licence plate. Favour detail and dynamic range over colour. Colour is poor at night anyway. For the same bitrate you can encode much more detail in B&W.

 

[relive]

2. Currently the Viofo A119 V3 is getting good comments, it is 1440 resolution with a relatively narrow field of view, so good for plates. Personally I prefer the Viofo A129 Pro because it has a normal field of view and 4K resolution, and decent bitrate, but isn't currently available (another month, or maybe two). There are a few other 1440 cameras about, but you also have to take into account the sensitivity of the sensor, the A119 V3 has one of the latest Sony Starvis sensors and so in the evening/night has less motion blur than others, and motion blur is a big enemy when reading plates in low light.

This is good to know. Viofo's naming scheme is confusing for a newcomer, and I wasn't aware that they are rolling out a 4k camera. The $300 price point for the A129 Pro seems about right. Is there any information about what the sensor will be? I have also read that buffered parking mode will be available with a future firmware update. Is that correct?

I was a victim of a minor hit and run around 18 months ago. The only reason I could identify the other driver and eventually have my insurer mark the incident as non-fault was because one of my dashcams was able to read the licence plate of the other car.

I'm very glad to hear that your cameras were able to protect you. Which camera caught the plate number? Is 1080p generally sufficient for UK plates? US plates are much smaller, which is why I am looking for higher resolution cameras.

Welcome to DCT @relive
US laws vary by State, but with most nothing gets done without verifiable evidence such as pics of a plate or extra witnesses. And even with that you might find them hesitant to prosecute or ticket someone. It is still something to consider when selecting a dashcam- you want the best chances you can get should your video ever really matter. A dashcam is as much a device to show you did no wrong as it is to show what others have done (which almost any cam can do) but as cheap as the really good ones are there's little point in not getting a good one. Viofo's latest offerings are worth a look and Street Guardian's cams are always top-quality, but there are several other good cams too based on your needs and price range.

Phil

Hi Phil, I completely agree with the sentiment of spending more money for something that actually works. It's pointless to spend money on a bad dashcam and find out that the quality of the footage is too poor to protect or exonerate you. I was fully prepared to spend $400-500 on a DR900S or Q800 Pro, until I realized that the quality of the footage does not justify their price.

I see that the A129 has a lot of custom firmware support, and it seems that custom firmware is key to maximizing the potential of a dashcam. The Korean cameras don't seem to have any custom firmware at all. Are there any other brands that have custom firmware available?

 

[DT MI]

...The only reason I could identify the other driver and eventually have my insurer mark the incident as non-fault was because one of my dashcams was able to read the licence plate of the other car.

Unless I'm misreading what you said I find it very strange that it would be necessary to identify the other driver in order for you to be absolved of fault. It's obvious (at least to me) if the video showed another driver, known or unknown, to be 'at fault' there should be no reason for you to have to identify them in order to be cleared.

 

[TonyM]

Unless I'm misreading what you said I find it very strange that it would be necessary to identify the other driver in order for you to be absolved of fault. It's obvious (at least to me) if the video showed another driver, known or unknown, to be 'at fault' there should be no reason for you to have to identify them in order to be cleared.

It was a hit and run. She didn't stop at the scene. I reported it to the police with her licence plate number. They found out who she was and called me back later that day with her contact details so we could exchange insurance details etc.

Minor Hit & Run - Recorded on 7 cameras

Today I was unfortunate enough to be hit by an oncoming car that drifted onto my side of the road. Thankfully only the car suffered damage - offside wing mirror knocked off and some bodywork scuffs. I'm fine :) The other driver initially stopped, then drove away. She will be sorry that I...

dashcamtalk.com

 

[lacibaci]

I always look at it from the point of view that it is not my job to prove the identity of whoever caused the accident. As long as the dashcam shows that it was not my fault, I'm happy. If the insurance company or the cops want to find the perpetrator, they have better means of doing so.

 

[kamkar]

If you are the victim of a hit and run, then yes plate capture will be paramount, but at least here in Denmark there are people driving around with unregged cars and no insurance, sporting one or two stolen plates.
So in that case you are screwed plate capture or not, and those people will without a doubt run for sure.
But in most events, your car and the other car go nowhere, and then what you really need to have on tape is that leading up to the event you did nothing wrong or illegal, and in that case i am sure you can not be blamed for what ever happened.

So thats how i see dashcams mainly, as unbiased witness to what i do, and if i do nothing wrong then i am good i would think.
So i dont even feel like i need to capture that car rear ending me, or side swiping me from behind where there might not be a camera, of course if he run then it all change, but in general with all involved stranded at the scene of the event, it all come down to who did what and so who is to blame.
And in that case i can prove that i just drive merrily along in my lane, and i don't need his/ her plate for that cuz their now wrecked car are right there.

So what ever the camera capture outside of my casual driving i will merrily take, but it is not something missing there that are to blame for my at the moment chaotic sleep patterns.
It is only in testing i use plate capture, and then its in good lighting conditions and really most cameras can then capture a plate, and as light dwindle and plate capture get harder it is to a large degree getting just as hard for both high end cameras and fairly cheap ones.
There are no super dashcam out there, at least not in the consumer segment.

If you focus on dashcams as a witness to your own driving, it get much more easy to not be upset when the limitations of what they can do hit you, but when it come to recording pretty much everything you do many cameras do that 100% and in pretty much any weather conditions.
Cuz if you focus on little detail capture, and thats plates too, then you will feel let down with any camera you get, cus there are large parts of the day where a dashcam can not help you with those little things.

Regarding recording of self, this is also why i have always been interested in dashcams being able to log / display more info from the OBD port, cuz if you could have indicator use / brake use too, that will block further claims against you that might be a little difficult to do with just raw video.

 

[DT MI]

It was a hit and run. She didn't stop at the scene. I reported it to the police with her licence plate number. They found out who she was and called me back later that day with her contact details so we could exchange insurance details etc.

Minor Hit & Run - Recorded on 7 cameras

Today I was unfortunate enough to be hit by an oncoming car that drifted onto my side of the road. Thankfully only the car suffered damage - offside wing mirror knocked off and some bodywork scuffs. I'm fine :) The other driver initially stopped, then drove away. She will be sorry that I...

dashcamtalk.com

So I guess my question is - if you did not have the plate number what would the outcome have been relative to the insurance and repairing damage to your vehicle? Surely your insurance company could not claim you were 'at fault' and deny coverage or assess you with future premium increases.

 

[relive]

I always look at it from the point of view that it is not my job to prove the identity of whoever caused the accident. As long as the dashcam shows that it was not my fault, I'm happy. If the insurance company or the cops want to find the perpetrator, they have better means of doing so.

So thats how i see dashcams mainly, as unbiased witness to what i do, and if i do nothing wrong then i am good i would think.

Yeah, there seems to be two different opinions on this. Some people run dashcams for liability protection, and for this use-case, image quality is not important at all, as almost any camera will clearly show if someone is at fault or not.

Other people prioritize parking mode and image quality, and see dashcams as a way to recover damages from the other party, or avoid paying their collision/comprehensive deductible. Collision/comprehensive coverage may not even make sense for lower valued cars, and a high-end dashcam can serve as a cheaper alternative.

Since all cameras can serve as liability protection, I am trying to figure out if it is worth it to spend more for an high-end system to identify drivers in hit-and-run situations, and whether the best current cameras are even capable of doing that task. If the answer to either of those questions is no, then there is little practical benefit to spending $500 for a high end 4k system compared to $150-200 for a good dual channel 1080p setup.

 

[TonyM]

So I guess my question is - if you did not have the plate number what would the outcome have been relative to the insurance and repairing damage to your vehicle? Surely your insurance company could not claim you were 'at fault' and deny coverage or assess you with future premium increases.

With no other party to admit liability, it would go down on my insurance as being my fault, just as if I had hit a deer standing in the road. I would still be covered for repair costs, less my excess. Just because I have video showing the other driver at fault does not help my insurer recover that cost. My future premiums would be higher.

 

[Nigel]

So I guess my question is - if you did not have the plate number what would the outcome have been relative to the insurance and repairing damage to your vehicle? Surely your insurance company could not claim you were 'at fault' and deny coverage or assess you with future premium increases.

If you could not identify the culprit then neither you or your insurance could claim on their insurance and so there would be a claim on your insurance and that would affect your future payments. How much affect on payments it would have would depend on the insurance company, some of the more expensive ones may let you off, but there would still be a claim on your record so you wouldn't want to change insurance companies for a few years.

 

[kamkar]

The main thing i think is a camera you can trust,,,,,,though at the moment you cant really trust any of them.......... i think i better explain.

No of the current cameras you can get you cant just stuff a memory card in it, and stick it on the windscreen, for your own "safety" you will be wise to look over the footage on the memory card every month or two ( and if you can manage more often it will not hurt )
This are not really a big deal, it take me 10 minutes to look over a 128 GB memory card on the PC, so it give itself that i only watch seconds of each video i sample.
So i focus on all the first and last file in drive sessions, and look for if they start / stop in places that seem valid,,,,, this are most often your home / your work / where you do your shopping / where you fill gas and friend and relatives place.
And after that i sample some random files on the memory card.

The current 4K systems are early adopters, don't get me wrong 4K are nice and for sure the future of dashcams, it is just the current ones have issues / challenges, and not least their low light footage are not overwhelming.

And saying that let me elaborate a little on low light performance, so right now the best performers are the cameras with the Sony IMX 291 sensor ( 1080p ) and this is due to its larger pixels and so larger light sensitivity.

So if you compare footage from a IMX 291 camera Vs the older and popular IMX 323, then in the IMX 291 footage you will see it is much brighter and watching / comparing video footage head to head with the IMX 323 you will have no problem saying,,,,, "Good god that IMX 291 are much better",,,,, and it is,,,,,, BUT ! if you then pause the footage or look at it frame by frame you will see, that all the extra you can see in IMX 291 footage well it is not crisp buildings ASO you see, they and the rest of the footage still suffer from motion blur, it is just your brain that are wired to extrapolate a lot due to the rather poor vision of humans.
So the more you see on the IMX 291 footage as it is brighter and you can see more things, then really all those extra you cant use for much,,,, but it do make for footage much nicer to look at, but the detail lever are not much better.
So don't get me wrong no need to get a "cheaper" IMX 323 camera, you should still go for the IMX 291, it are a little better and much nicer to look at.

So my recommendation at this point in time are still to get a camera single or dual with a good 1080p sensor or maybe the up and coming 1440p cameras that also seem to be quite nice, though as far as i can tell only viofo have one on the shelves with their A119 V3, but more are to follow i am sure.
This is a excellent way to get your feet wet, and if you get hooked you can always enjoy the pleasure of donating your old camera to someone you care about, and then get a newer camera.

Also you should not save a few bucks by getting a good camera overseas, if you run into issues that cant be solved with the help of friendly people in here, then you need to RMA your camera, and that are often a pain to do overseas.
There are a range of good sellers in the US, with their own stores or on Amazon too.
Likewise with the memory card, ATM i would go for endurance memory cards that have warranty when used in a dashcam ( many regular memory cards don't have such a warranty for use in dashcam )
And the endurance have now dropped to price levels that are doable or at least not insane as they use to be.
You can also use regular memory cards, many of us have done that for years, and gotten years out of them too, but if they break then you can be screwed.
Personally i shop memory cards in local stores or on one of the EU amazons where i have gotten really good service when a card have died on me far too early ( some times before i got to fill it 1 time )

So in short forget about 4K, its not there right now it will be but a 1080 or 1440p system are also just fine, and i am sure we will see those resolution cameras for years to come too, 4K will not be the end all resolution.

 

[TonyM]

Since all cameras can serve as liability protection, I am trying to figure out if it is worth it to spend more for an high-end system to identify drivers in hit-and-run situations, and whether the best current cameras are even capable of doing that task. If the answer to either of those questions is no, then there is little practical benefit to spending $500 for a high end 4k system compared to $150-200 for a good dual channel 1080p setup.

My best footage came from the $100 Xiaomi Mijia Mini 4k action camera

 

[Nigel]

This is good to know. Viofo's naming scheme is confusing for a newcomer, and I wasn't aware that they are rolling out a 4k camera. The $300 price point for the A129 Pro seems about right. Is there any information about what the sensor will be? I have also read that buffered parking mode will be available with a future firmware update. Is that correct?

I'm expecting it to cost a fair amount less than that.

Sensor information has not been published, so I can't comment. It is not as sensitive as an A129, but it can see plates at greater distance which reduces motion blur, so on a straight road it has a definite advantage, not so much on corners unless there is sunshine.

Yes, buffered parking mode should be available, as is excellent low bitrate parking mode which I prefer.

(I have one in my car, and even though I live in UK with big number plates, I would definitely choose the A129 Pro over the others. For USA use I would get the A119 V3 over the A129 Duo, although then I would need a rear camera as well - any old cam will do for that! For UK/Europe, the A129 Duo has sufficient resolution and does have the least motion blur so is a good choice.)

 

[DT MI]

With no other party to admit liability, it would go down on my insurance as being my fault, just as if I had hit a deer standing in the road. I would still be covered for repair costs, less my excess. Just because I have video showing the other driver at fault does not help my insurer recover that cost. My future premiums would be higher.

If you could not identify the culprit then neither you or your insurance could claim on their insurance and so there would be a claim on your insurance and that would affect your future payments. How much affect on payments it would have would depend on the insurance company, some of the more expensive ones may let you off, but there would still be a claim on your record so you wouldn't want to change insurance companies for a few years.

Auto insurance is certainly different over there than here. In a case where an 'at fault' driver is unidentified my insurance will pay for repairs to my vehicle (less my deductible/excess) - but - because I'm not 'at fault' it will have no bearing on my future premiums. You guys are being unfairly (IMO) penalized for someone else's actions.

 

[Nigel]

Auto insurance is certainly different over there than here. In a case where an 'at fault' driver is unidentified my insurance will pay for repairs to my vehicle (less my deductible/excess) - but - because I'm not 'at fault' it will have no bearing on my future premiums. You guys are being unfairly (IMO) penalized for someone else's actions.

No, somebody has to pay for the repairs, and it is better that the people who get involved in "no fault" incidents pay than to put the cost on people who either manage to avoid them or manage to capture the culprit's license plate on their dashcam. Some of our insurance companies do claim to operate as you suggest yours do, but we will have to pay more to get that type of insurance, doesn't matter if we use it or not. You can be quite sure that it wont be the insurance company that ends up paying for the repairs.

If your insurance always pays up, why do you need a camera that can capture license plates?