How should the perfect dash cam designed?

Well, from today I would suppose 4ch cams are not the mainstream for customers, 2ch would be sufficient for the most. We always need to keep in mind the costs. For a 2ch system with really high quality video (day + night) I estimate a limit of 300 USD is a threshold.
For such a system 1920x1080 for the front is mandatory and I would prefer same resolution for rear cam.
As someone posted before, if the main unit is sperated from the lenses it could be mount somewhere else and if the mainunit also has the abililty for quick attach/detach a harddrive or an SSD ;) it would be outstanding :D.

A 4ch system is - in my mind - a really high end solution which will extend the costs of a "dashcam" significantly.
Please dont le me be misunderstood, I guess there is need for such a system and people will buy it, but currently it is not the main target for privates. For drivers/owners of car fleets, trucks and so on this would be a great solution.

What I am also missing is a playback software which easily displays both recorded files at the same time, with an option to show only a) front video b) rear video c) both videos PiP where you can swap the video content.

Not to forget, I didnt see one point mentioned here: a big, really BIG need is reliabilty of the cam/system. If a cam could do 100 things and have 1.000 options but you cant rely on it, no one needs such a box ;).
So some times a lot of options is fine, but never forget the old phrase "keep it as simple as possible" to avoid misbehavior.

Regards
 
FSC830 said:
Well, from today I would suppose 4ch cams are not the mainstream for customers, 2ch would be sufficient for the most. We always need to keep in mind the costs. For a 2ch system with really high quality video (day + night) I estimate a limit of 300 USD is a threshold.
For such a system 1920x1080 for the front is mandatory and I would prefer same resolution for rear cam.
As someone posted before, if the main unit is sperated from the lenses it could be mount somewhere else and if the mainunit also has the abililty for quick attach/detach a harddrive or an SSD ;) it would be outstanding :D.

A 4ch system is - in my mind - a really high end solution which will extend the costs of a "dashcam" significantly.
Please dont le me be misunderstood, I guess there is need for such a system and people will buy it, but currently it is not the main target for privates. For drivers/owners of car fleets, trucks and so on this would be a great solution.

What I am also missing is a playback software which easily displays both recorded files at the same time, with an option to show only a) front video b) rear video c) both videos PiP where you can swap the video content.

Not to forget, I didnt see one point mentioned here: a big, really BIG need is reliabilty of the cam/system. If a cam could do 100 things and have 1.000 options but you cant rely on it, no one needs such a box ;).
So some times a lot of options is fine, but never forget the old phrase "keep it as simple as possible" to avoid misbehavior.

Regards

Regarding firmware, playback, pip etc iCaro b4 solved all and has outstanding performance in this. I did while ago video overview about interface but did not had time to upload it. Try to do it when will get a chance.
 
Just taking a brief view across the manual. Its a good idea, but I cant see any price information. Also one disadvantage: all cams are recording to a 16(32)gb SD card.
Why do they not spending an eSATA or USB Port to the main unit to connect a larger recording media???
And yes, when looking at the small SD cards I also suggest that resolution is low, referring to the manual its only 704x288 :(.

But a good first draft ;).
This is of course a unit which I would use if some improvements will be done.

Regards
 
FSC830 said:
Just taking a brief view across the manual. Its a good idea, but I cant see any price information. Also one disadvantage: all cams are recording to a 16(32)gb SD card.
Why do they not spending an eSATA or USB Port to the main unit to connect a larger recording media???
And yes, when looking at the small SD cards I also suggest that resolution is low, referring to the manual its only 704x288 :(.

But a good first draft ;).
This is of course a unit which I would use if some improvements will be done.

Regards

please refer to my earlier post about price, resolution and that it is 2y old model. Yes, there are things that could be done differently, but it would be unfair to judge model made 2y ago and compare todays standards. Hope you know what i am trying to say.
 
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I wonder if we're going about this from the wrong angle.
Instead of designing a new system, why not tweak what is already out there?
How about having a couple of really good mini cameras - the Mobius, for example. (is being hailed by some as being better than the 808.)
Provide each cam with a long power cord and give it bluetooth capability.
It shouldn't be too difficult to provide power to both cams.
Then provide an app for android and iphone.
The app could, for example, be used to view the pic from front or rear at any time (inc live feed for reversing cam?) as well as programming each/both cams - you want both to say the same time, have the same settings? done, from the app.
Same with transferring footage, no need to remove the SD card, simply open the app, view the file & save to phone (or even email it to yourself/police etc).
Rather than adding gps, gsensors etc to existing cams, why not utilise the phone's built in tech - whilst the app is open you could have the option of saving gps data in a small file set aside for this - in the event that you may need this data, the file could be locked.
The setup could also be provided reasonably cheaply since it utilises what is already on the market (ok, the bluetooth bit has to be added to each) and you are only buying a couple of mini cams plus an app.
It also means that it can also be very easily upgraded since you may only wish to change the front cam (I'm guessing everyone will be happy with 1080@30fps for a rear cam?) and any new firmware etc will come in via the app automatically.

It might also be possible to expand the system - have 4 or even 6 cams so all four sides of the car are covered including inside front & rear (for buses, coaches, taxis etc). Simply buy additional cameras as and when you need or can afford.
Maybe include a basic app for free & charge a few pounds for a 6 camera app?

Personally, I would be happy to buy 5 of these systems for me & my family since we all use dashcams & we all have smartphones. Heck, I'd even buy one for my bus at work!
 
sludgeguts said:
I wonder if we're going about this from the wrong angle.
Instead of designing a new system, why not tweak what is already out there?

I'm not sure I would do like you suggest but I do like that you are thinking outside the box, sometimes innovation comes out of left field ideas like this
 
Based on information i got about 2 month from 808 #16 developers regarding they new 1080p keychain camera release price will be around 90-100usd for full set and its available now. If buying 2 of them, it is already 200usd. I am sure it is possible to have much better 2ch dash cam solution for same price.
However new design of Mobius is very tempting and i like it more then old key chain dvr design. Reliability and video quality recording is not yet widely known.

Prerelease price is 54.50gbp


http://joovuu.com/store/index.php?id_pr ... er=product
 
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niko said:
Based on information i got about 2 month from 808 #16 developers regarding they new 1080p keychain camera release price will be around 90-100usd for full set and its available now. If buying 2 of them, it is already 200usd. I am sure it is possible to have much better 2ch dash cam solution for same price.
However new design of Mobius is very tempting and i like it more then old key chain dvr design. Reliability and video quality recording is not yet widely known.

Prerelease price is 54.50gbp


http://joovuu.com/store/index.php?id_pr ... er=product


OK, so £54 is about US$85, two cameras would then bring the price to US$170 (£108). and that's for a system using two cameras, with independant recording (most current models record both cams to one card - which can lead to problems).
so what would it cost to add bluetooth to both cams & design an app? another US$30 maybe?
Also, the two keyfob sized units wouldn't need to be anywhere near as complicated as they are now since the app would instruct the phone to deal with most other things like GPS and programming settings. All the cam needs is video on demand (on ignition power) and the ability to recycle files - and maybe a battery to enable recording after the power is shutdown (maybe 10 mins max?). I cannot see the need for a dashcam to be able to take photos!
Since the cameras only have one task, they have no need for buttons either (maybe a reset)- just a decent LED - not so bright as to glare during the night.
 
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jokiin said:
sludgeguts said:
I wonder if we're going about this from the wrong angle.
Instead of designing a new system, why not tweak what is already out there?

I'm not sure I would do like you suggest but I do like that you are thinking outside the box, sometimes innovation comes out of left field ideas like this

I do think it would be better to have two independant systems rather than two remote cams and one recording device.
With the one dvr taking feed off two cams, if the DVR breaks or the card goes faulty, you lose the lot whereas using two keyfob cams, one breaks down the second still operates. If the damaged one happens to be the front cam, you can still use the rear cam, so disconnect from the holder & put it in the front so that you're not without coverage.
Another advantage is that the system would also be simple and cheap to upgrade. If mobius (for example) then bring out a super high def camera with ultra night vision & thermal imaging blah blah blah, you could add this to your system for the cost of just the camera. Having a main DVR with two remote cameras means you are stuck until someone develops a better remote cam & I doubt that would happen soon whereas advances are being made all the time in the main dvr scene (the newest 808 or the mobius for example)
 
sludgeguts said:
Also, the two keyfob sized units wouldn't need to be anywhere near as complicated as they are now since the app would instruct the phone to deal with most other things like GPS and programming settings. .

where did the GPS come from in your budget :shock:

sludgeguts said:
I cannot see the need for a dashcam to be able to take photos!

the logic 'supposedly' is that if you have an accident you can use the camera to take still shots of the event, the odds of someone having a dashcam and not having a phone with a camera in it are very slim I would think, I think it's a pointless feature as well
 
sludgeguts said:
I do think it would be better to have two independant systems rather than two remote cams and one recording device.
With the one dvr taking feed off two cams, if the DVR breaks or the card goes faulty,

our dual cam product will be two memory cards, one per camera
 
jokiin said:
sludgeguts said:
I do think it would be better to have two independant systems rather than two remote cams and one recording device.
With the one dvr taking feed off two cams, if the DVR breaks or the card goes faulty,

our dual cam product will be two memory cards, one per camera

My point there was, if the two memory cards are in the one unit & a fault occurs in the unit, you potentially lose the two cards.

My newest cam for my car is the F70n (60fps) (replacing my old F70 (30fps) sadly, the recording off the rear cam is very ropey. Watching 'live' on the screen, it is brilliant & there is nothing wrong with the card or the remote cam - just the way it records! So I have a dual cam that is only any good as a single camera.

BTW, my suggestion for the GPS was to let the app control the phone's GPS. Anyone who insists on having GPS can let the phone save gps to a small file which it saves in the main "car dvr" file. If the app is used to send all initial settings to the cam, the date/time on the cams is sync'd to the phone so the gps files saved should tally with any downloaded off the cams.
If you are using an app on a smartphone, you may as well take advantage of the phone's capabilities to cutdown on bells and whistles in the camera. The fewer things it has to do, the better it will be able to do them (do one job really well instead of doing a dozen things reasonably well)
 
sludgeguts said:
My point there was, if the two memory cards are in the one unit & a fault occurs in the unit, you potentially lose the two cards.

I don't see total failure as a common occurrence, two individual cams certainly halves your risk but it doubles your complexity elsewhere also



sludgeguts said:
My newest cam for my car is the F70n (60fps) (replacing my old F70 (30fps) sadly, the recording off the rear cam is very ropey. Watching 'live' on the screen, it is brilliant & there is nothing wrong with the card or the remote cam - just the way it records! So I have a dual cam that is only any good as a single camera.

Known problem model that will always be flaky I expect, its faults are inherent to the design, if it's what you're used to I can understand your reliability concerns

sludgeguts said:
BTW, my suggestion for the GPS was to let the app control the phone's GPS. Anyone who insists on having GPS can let the phone save gps to a small file which it saves in the main "car dvr" file. If the app is used to send all initial settings to the cam, the date/time on the cams is sync'd to the phone so the gps files saved should tally with any downloaded off the cams.
If you are using an app on a smartphone, you may as well take advantage of the phone's capabilities to cutdown on bells and whistles in the camera. The fewer things it has to do, the better it will be able to do them (do one job really well instead of doing a dozen things reasonably well)

Two cams wirelessly logging to another device is a lot more complex than logging internally, plenty of things that could go wrong in that scenario, I'm not sure we'd ever see this happen, not with currently available technologies at least

still, even with all that said I do like the fact that your thinking is outside of current design ideas
 
sludgeguts said:
...
Then provide an app for android and iphone.
The app could, for example, be used to view the pic from front or rear at any time (inc live feed for reversing cam?) as well as programming each/both cams - you want both to say the same time, have the same settings? done, from the app.
Same with transferring footage, no need to remove the SD card, simply open the app, view the file & save to phone (or even email it to yourself/police etc).
Rather than adding gps, gsensors etc to existing cams, why not utilise the phone's built in tech - whilst the app is open you could have the option of saving gps data in a small file set aside for this - in the event that you may need this data, the file could be locked.
The setup could also be provided reasonably cheaply since it utilises what is already on the market (ok, the bluetooth bit has to be added to each) and you are only buying a couple of mini cams plus an app.
It also means that it can also be very easily upgraded since you may only wish to change the front cam (I'm guessing everyone will be happy with 1080@30fps for a rear cam?) and any new firmware etc will come in via the app automatically.

...
As I mentioned before, every user has his own idea of a perfect dashcam :D ...

For myself I would never buy or use such a cam for which the settings can only be modified when using a smartphone! All settings must be done from the cam/main unit. An app for a smartphone is a nice addon, but I am afraid this will be paid with a larger and more unreliable firmeware. If videos from front and rear cam are coreded to one or multiple SD cards I dont care take about that if the recording is reliable (no damaged files) and naming/watermark timestamp of both videos is matching (this should not be a problem).
Actually I would prefer an external recording device which can be detached from the car quick and easy and leave the rest in the car (lense/cam/main unit). As a backup for the recordings a SD card in the main unit would be nice. My idea:
as long a the external device (SSD/HDD) is connected the files are saved to this device as long as free space is sufficient.
If the HDD is detached recording would be redirected to the SD card. If the HDD is attched again recording is redirected back to to HDD. A "copy files" push button to copy the files from the SD card to the HDD would ne nice to get the complete recorded files at the HDD.

Regards
 
jokiin said:
sludgeguts said:
My point there was, if the two memory cards are in the one unit & a fault occurs in the unit, you potentially lose the two cards.

I don't see total failure as a common occurrence, two individual cams certainly halves your risk but it doubles your complexity elsewhere also



sludgeguts said:
My newest cam for my car is the F70n (60fps) (replacing my old F70 (30fps) sadly, the recording off the rear cam is very ropey. Watching 'live' on the screen, it is brilliant & there is nothing wrong with the card or the remote cam - just the way it records! So I have a dual cam that is only any good as a single camera.

Known problem model that will always be flaky I expect, its faults are inherent to the design, if it's what you're used to I can understand your reliability concerns

sludgeguts said:
BTW, my suggestion for the GPS was to let the app control the phone's GPS. Anyone who insists on having GPS can let the phone save gps to a small file which it saves in the main "car dvr" file. If the app is used to send all initial settings to the cam, the date/time on the cams is sync'd to the phone so the gps files saved should tally with any downloaded off the cams.
If you are using an app on a smartphone, you may as well take advantage of the phone's capabilities to cutdown on bells and whistles in the camera. The fewer things it has to do, the better it will be able to do them (do one job really well instead of doing a dozen things reasonably well)

Two cams wirelessly logging to another device is a lot more complex than logging internally, plenty of things that could go wrong in that scenario, I'm not sure we'd ever see this happen, not with currently available technologies at least

still, even with all that said I do like the fact that your thinking is outside of current design ideas

My old F70 hasn't had any problems. My old DOD F900HD is still going strong. My new F70n, as you say, is a bit flaky (then again, I know others who say theirs is fine). and My DR32 still has crap audio issues (yet others say theirs was fine out of the box/since the FW upgrade and my #16 keyfob still works ok.
As to the two cams logging wirelessly - I wasn't thinking this would be an ongoing thing. Initial setup, for example - open app, date/time sync'd with phone (which itself auto syncs through internet), adjust other settings as required then sync once. I'm thinking everything else is done internally by each cam.
I would only want a live feed from the rear cam when reversing. I guess that it would be hard for software etc to differentiate, so that would need to be a constant feed. However, if this a problem for the camera due to power constraints (you can tell I know nothing about the intricacies here!), then maybe you have to have a trade off - instead of the rear cam utilising maximum resolution etc, it would only record at, for example, 720p & maybe a lower frame rate?
 
FSC830 said:
All settings must be done from the cam/main unit.
Why? I have cams where settings are done on a pc, transferred to card & inserted into the cam (808 #16 for example) and others where settings are done within the cam. Since I tend to set & forget, neither route is a problem. I just figured that setting from the phone will mean that both (all) cams will/should show exactly the same time/date & this would also be set in the app's folder (where I figured GPS files could be saved)
FSC830 said:
An app for a smartphone is a nice addon, but I am afraid this will be paid with a larger and more unreliable firmeware.
Again, why? I have no idea about designing apps but it seems to me that you're only asking it to perform a couple of simple tasks.
sync date/time from phone, add a few initial settings - send to cams & save to internal file
save GPS log, if required
monitor one cam, if required (I have an app to constantly monitor my car via OBDplug/bluetooth & display/clear fault codes
view & d/l file from each cam as required send via email, bluetooth etc (as the phone already does with video, photo, music etc etc.
I already have a car dvr app that seems to do much of this already but this has problems since the phone isn't designed to be used as a video recorder all day long! I found my phone gets hot and the app/video takes more out than the charger can put in (possibly why the phone gets hot?) and, consequently, files get corrupted (the longer it records, the higher the corruption rate

FSC830 said:
Actually I would prefer an external recording device which can be detached from the car quick and easy and leave the rest in the car (lense/cam/main unit). As a backup for the recordings a SD card in the main unit would be nice. My idea:
as long a the external device (SSD/HDD) is connected the files are saved to this device as long as free space is sufficient.
If the HDD is detached recording would be redirected to the SD card. If the HDD is attched again recording is redirected back to to HDD. A "copy files" push button to copy the files from the SD card to the HDD would ne nice to get the complete recorded files at the HDD.

Regards
So put my two small DVRs in the car & power through their USB cable via some sort of splitter box. Power into the box from the car & data from the cams to a USB port - out to the phone connector (rather than bluetooth). Even older phones will act as a storage device when connected via USB or you could use a portable hard drive.
 
And whilst we're all arguing about what we'd like, the manufacturers will only keep giving us what they already have.

Can someone (manufacturer) please jump in and tell us if any of our/my wild & whacky suggestions are even possible?
OK, I'm guessing most anything is possible - so what sort of budget could we be looking at?
 
sludgeguts said:
...
Since the cameras only have one task, they have no need for buttons either (maybe a reset)- just a decent LED - not so bright as to glare during the night.

The comment to the settings was referring to this statement. At least the basic functions must be done from the camera itself, not by a phone or any other third party controlling device, i.e. start/stop recording (a manual override of the system settings in .ini file), formatting.
Everyone prefers his own way of using, I will not use a third device for such tasks. Why should I? By the way: there a a lot of people not using a smartphone but a simpe cell phone instead. Any also I will not use a device as "brigdehead" for recording when the cam itself is able to do this.

Again, we will never find a cam which fits for all, there is no right and wrong way, there are a lot of options and I just told my preferred one ;) .

Regards
 
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