M2 Discussion

[kamkar]

Or film your favorite basketball team as they walk past you

 

[c4rc4m]

Is it possible to get a rubberised housing for the M2?

 

[kamkar]

I dont think there is anything like that out there for the M2

 

[c4rc4m]

Shame.

After saying I wasn't buying atm due to a lack of SD cards, I found someone including SD cards U3 class with the cams, so ended up with an Opia 2.

However, I'm sending it back.

No matter how good the quality, the issues I have with it are:

1. With the CPL fitted, it's huge and stands out way too much to risk leaving it in the car

2. Even without the CPL, I'd still want to remove a £200 dashcam, and the Opia 2 is just a cheap piece of brittle feeling plastic in my opinion. Considering my dashcams have either fallen off the windsceen regularly, or been dropped by me whilst carrying them out onto concrete, the Opia simply isn't worth keeping as the 1st time it's dropped I'm convinced it will shatter. By comparison, I've dropped both the GoPro and Mobius 40 or 50 times, and it was only when the Mobius 1 fell lens down onto a tiled floor, did it break. I've never broken the GoPro.

I was rather hoping that the M2 would have a rubberised housing therefore and I think it's a massive step backwards in not supplying one. I'd personally rather pay an extra £5 and have a rubberised exterior than have the cam £5 cheaper in brittle plastic.

 

[Dashmellow]

40 or 50 times! How is it possible to drop cameras that many times or to even consider that dropping them on concrete is something that cameras should be able to repeatedly stand up to? The silicone coating on a Mobius hardly offers protection from impacts like that.

Personally, when I carry dash cams around I keep them in a padded protective case similar to a Pelican box.

@c4rc4m, it sounds like you really need one of these.

 

[kamkar]

Ever since i gotten the new phone i have been thinking " i wonder when i drop it and the screen break"

The new phone just feel so big ( and it is ) but also it feel so slippery with its ALU housing, my old HTC phone had some sort of rubber like surface so i had i much better grip on it.
Off course i could get one of those covers, but to be honest those just look so "gay" to me.

I have already contemplated if its possible to get the phone wrapped in something with a better grip, but to my knowledge wrapping of cars normally is a matter of looks and not texture.
I have already been down the plasti-dip road in my mind, but for just the back half of the phone i dont think plasti-dip would stick that well.

Perhaps i should mention i have very dry skin, so if i have not washed my hands within seconds or just come out of the bath, my palms are dry as a bone.

 

[c4rc4m]

40 or 50 times! How is it possible to drop cameras that many times or to even consider that dropping them on concrete is something that cameras should be able to repeatedly stand up to? The silicone coating on a Mobius hardly offers protection from impacts like that.

Remember I'm a domestic user and I do a lot of short journeys in my car. Every time I leave the car I remove the camera - maybe 8-10 times a day. If I'm out I lock it in the boot which means carrying it around the back of the car then opening the boot with it in my hand. If I've come home, then I'm usually juggling shopping, the camera and other items whilst trying to get out of the car, lock it and then retrieve the house key and open the house door. It's easy in those circumstances when holding lots of items to drop something.

Also, I've lost count of the number of times the suction mount has failed because the windscreens become a little dry and the camera has dropped off, bounced off part of the dashboard on the way down and fallen into a footwell. I don't use adhesive mounts because they can be difficult to remove and with those dots on my windscreen top, I don't want to risk bringing those off if I ever have to remove the mount.

As for Pelican cases, thanks for the suggestion, but I really don't want any more items to carry, my car's full enough as it stands.

I think manufacturers should realise that these cameras are often not left on windscreens but put on / taken off with every journey and so realise they're prone to being dropped. Action camera manufacturers make them rugged so why not dashcam manufacturers? For sure, no-one drops one deliberately unlike action cams which get deliberately put in physically abusive situations. However, the usage means dashcams that are removed are often accidentally subjected to knocks so making them tough doesn't seem such unreasonable or a bad marketing move, especially as the rubberised coating of the Mobius 1 was quite discrete.

 

[Dashmellow]

Remember I'm a domestic user and I do a lot of short journeys in my car. Every time I leave the car I remove the camera - maybe 8-10 times a day. If I'm out I lock it in the boot which means carrying it around the back of the car then opening the boot with it in my hand. If I've come home, then I'm usually juggling shopping, the camera and other items whilst trying to get out of the car, lock it and then retrieve the house key and open the house door. It's easy in those circumstances when holding lots of items to drop something.

Also, I've lost count of the number of times the suction mount has failed because the windscreens become a little dry and the camera has dropped off, bounced off part of the dashboard on the way down and fallen into a footwell. I don't use adhesive mounts because they can be difficult to remove and with those dots on my windscreen top, I don't want to risk bringing those off if I ever have to remove the mount.

As for Pelican cases, thanks for the suggestion, but I really don't want any more items to carry, my car's full enough as it stands.

I think manufacturers should realise that these cameras are often not left on windscreens but put on / taken off with every journey and so realise they're prone to being dropped. Action camera manufacturers make them rugged so why not dashcam manufacturers? For sure, no-one drops one deliberately unlike action cams which get deliberately put in physically abusive situations. However, the usage means dashcams that are removed are often accidentally subjected to knocks so making them tough doesn't seem such unreasonable or a bad marketing move, especially as the rubberised coating of the Mobius 1 was quite discrete.

I've not heard of anyone removing their dash cam ten times a day but I guess it happens. Dropping a camera 50 times is a first to my ears.

Anyway, I'm surely puzzled by your odd logic here. How would putting your camera in a protective case be an additional item to carry once your camera is inside it?

I too carry many items to and from my vehicle on a daily basis. This includes two power banks (in Pelican style cases), a small iPad, a still camera (in a padded case), spare memory cards and USB cables; currently, two additional Mobius cameras that I am beta testing, and an assortment of other miscellaneous items. Everything is kept in a canvas cloth tote bag. This makes it very convenient to transport whatever I need to and from my destinations and this way, regardless of how many items are involved I never drop anything. You should consider trying it. There's no need to suffer like this, especially this chronically dropped camera business.

As I mentioned previously, the thin silicone rubber coating on the Mobius is not in any way intended to prevent damage from dropping the camera onto concrete. It is really more of a design flourish that gives the device a certain tactile feel. The notion that dash cam manufacturers should build to ruggedized action camera standards seems illogical. Dash cams are intended for permanent or semi-permanent installation with occasional removal and to me the theory that dash camera manufacturers are somehow at fault because you are careless enough to drop your camera 40 or 50 times seems downright absurd. I've spent a lifetime around outrageously expensive cameras and lenses and they are built to withstand a lot of abuse but I would never blame Nikon or Hasselblad or Schneider if I dropped one onto the pavement. I transport them in protective cases just as I do with my dash cams. And I certainly wouldn't blame Apple either if I dropped my iPad on the pavement and the glass broke. I just use care as best I can along with common sense.

As for your problem with the suction cup mount falling off quite that much, if you replace it with a better quality one that has a higher grade of silicone rubber suction cup on it, it won't fall off so much anymore. Everyone who has been around dash cams for any length of time learns the difference between the cheap garbage suction cup mounts and the decent ones. Of course, it is important to install these mounts correctly but alas, not everyone does that.

You might also reconsider using an adhesive mount. Those "dots" on the windscreen you are fretting over so much are known as"frit" and sometimes "third visor frit". The frit in modern automotive glass is a black ceramic enamel that is literally fused into the windshield glass. Frit is extraordinarily durable and you could not scrape it off or otherwise remove it even if you wanted to! Typical 3M VHB tape will not harm it in any way and you can use it without concern. I've been applying and removing adhesive dash cam mounts to the frit in my vehicle on countless occasions over the last nearly seven years without any issues. Any residue that may remain after tape removal can be cleaned with a small amount of appropriate solvent.

 

[dirkzelf]

Ever since i gotten the new phone i have been thinking " i wonder when i drop it and the screen break"

The new phone just feel so big ( and it is ) but also it feel so slippery with its ALU housing, my old HTC phone had some sort of rubber like surface so i had i much better grip on it.
Off course i could get one of those covers, but to be honest those just look so "gay" to me.

I have already contemplated if its possible to get the phone wrapped in something with a better grip, but to my knowledge wrapping of cars normally is a matter of looks and not texture.
I have already been down the plasti-dip road in my mind, but for just the back half of the phone i dont think plasti-dip would stick that well.

Perhaps i should mention i have very dry skin, so if i have not washed my hands within seconds or just come out of the bath, my palms are dry as a bone.

I have been struggling with this myself for a long time, and maybe it's of help for you, but I use the thin rubber sheets that are used for bicycle tire repair. I buy a cheap case, and pad the back with this rubber sheet. It has a self adhesive side, but is not strong enough on itself,since it is meant to be fused to the tire rubber with a special bonding glue. You can't use that, but I use a thin broad double sided carpet tape to bond the rubber sheet to the case....

Works great, gives your phone unprecedented grip, but it doesn't really look sophisticated.... I can hold my phone almost vertically with only 3 fingers on the back.... And it still doesn't fall down.

Besides you may need use tape at the edges cause the rubber tends to round up from using it.....

Let me know if you want a picture....

Piece.

 

[c4rc4m]

I've not heard of anyone removing their dash cam ten times a day but I guess it happens. Dropping a camera 50 times is a first to my ears.

Anyway, I'm surely puzzled by your odd logic here. How would putting your camera in a protective case be an additional item to carry once your camera is inside it?

50 or so times would be over a long period of time, maybe 3 years+. If you said 10 fixings / removals a day, then potentially (although unlikely as it wouldn't be every day), that's 50 times out of almost 22,000 removals / fittings. Not too high when you consider the juggling items with full hands scenario and the fact that quite a few were also mount failings. Yep I probably could go back twice to the car, but let's face it, most of us are lazy when it comes to things like that.

As for the case, I welcome the suggestion, but it would be an additional item to have to carry in the car.

As I mentioned previously, the thin silicone rubber coating on the Mobius is not in any way intended to prevent damage from dropping the camera onto concrete. It is really more of a design flourish that gives the device a certain tactile feel. The notion that dash cam manufacturers should build to ruggedized action camera standards seems illogical. Dash cams are intended for permanent or semi-permanent installation with occasional removal....

Do you really want to risk leaving a E / £ / $200 dashcam in a vehicle in areas with high vehicle crime? I've not heard of dashcam theft, but it's only a matter of time once thieves realise there's a market. After all throw out the SD card and the theft evidence disappears, plus if your vehicle is broken into, your insurance goes up to pay for the window / locks.

As for your problem with the suction cup mount falling off quite that much, if you replace it with a better quality one that has a higher grade of silicone rubber suction cup on it, it won't fall off so much anymore. Everyone who has been around dash cams for any length of time learns the difference between the cheap garbage suction cup mounts and the decent ones. Of course, it is important to install these mounts correctly but alas, not everyone does that.

You wouldn't believe the number of times my GoPro mount has fallen off the screen. Hardly a poor quality mount.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything wrong with ruggidized cameras. Do we really want to pay £ / E / $200 for a cheap piece of brittle plastic or something made from quality materials and construction. I know what I want from spending that much money and if action cam companies like SJ can ruggidise cameras for well under a £/ E / $100, then I see no reason why dashcam manufacturers couldn't ruggidise cameras without any significant extra cost.

 

[SawMaster]

Rule #1: "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

After so many spills your Mobius is still working, and only one lens got smashed. I'd say that pretty rugged already. I've had a few cam spills, but only onto the car seat or the carpeted floor. So far I've been lucky when suction mounts let go- the PS cable stayed in leaving the cam dangling. I always route those cables so that this can happen just in case it does. Now I reset those when I check the cards so it's a rare event. I view suction mounts as being temporary. Once you get the right location for your cam you need to swap for a more secure mount I'm pretty hard on things because I like only things that won't break under a little abuse, but I do try to be careful especially with my cams as they're a large investment to me and I also don't want unavoidable down-time waiting for a replacement cam.

c4rc4m, what you need is a better logistics system. With one job I worked, there was so much junk to carry that I had a small gym bag to toss it all in and keep it together. A small backpack or hardcase might work. Lots of options there.

As to 'ruggedizing', you can 'pot' most electronics with epoxy, creating one solid nearly indestructible mass. You can devise a ring to go around lenses and protruding switches without affecting their function. There are a couple downsides to this; you can't ever do repairs afterward and this may affect heat-flow (cooling) of some components. Ruggedizing outer cases or improving their grip-ability is pretty easy sometimes. One of my fave tricks is using a section of inner-tube; slip on as many layers as you want with holes cut where you need them. If appearances don't matter blob on silicone sealer. Slip-on foam pipe insulation can also work. Just remember function and cooling are still needed and you'll be fine

Which brings me to rule #2: "If you need it and ain't got it, then you make it yourself." and rule #2A: "You can probably make it better suited for your specific needs than what they gave you to work with."

A little bit of brains and some imagination can go far towards making your life better
Phil

 

[c4rc4m]

Hi Phill,

I don't disagree with your philosophy. However, the rubberised coating has been removed from the M2, so it is broke in effect.

Whilst maybe designed only be tactile, it did nevertheless provide some cushioning.

As for potting, I'm aware of this. However, I think most action cams seem to do without this. I guess just good board construction. No issues with Mobius construction other than the loss of rubberised coating and the fact that one or two aspects of the case are a bit cheap eg. I found on opening my M1, the screw holes didn't grip so well after a few opening as screws into very soft plastic.

Can't comment on the quality of the M2 case, as I've never seen one in person. However, a little rubberising wouldn't hurt.

 

[Dashmellow]

50 or so times would be over a long period of time, maybe 3 years+. If you said 10 fixings / removals a day, then potentially (although unlikely as it wouldn't be every day), that's 50 times out of almost 22,000 removals / fittings. Not too high when you consider the juggling items with full hands scenario and the fact that quite a few were also mount failings. Yep I probably could go back twice to the car, but let's face it, most of us are lazy when it comes to things like that.

As for the case, I welcome the suggestion, but it would be an additional item to have to carry in the car.

Respectfully, removing and reinstalling a dash cam 22,000 times with no end in sight to the process sounds downright daft if you ask me but if that's your pleasure, I guess that is up to you.

In decades of working with and transporting cameras and lenses sometimes in precarious situations on location I've dropped a lens on a single occasion but that was about it. If I dropped any item more than a few times I would consider that a problem exists that needs to be addressed. In your circumstances since you are not willing to use a tote bag or satchel to transport all the items you regularly need to, or even a small protective case to transport your camera to and fro I don't see much hope for your situation since it appears to be entirely self inflicted together with a refusal to adopt a simple remedy.

Do you really want to risk leaving a E / £ / $200 dashcam in a vehicle in areas with high vehicle crime? I've not heard of dashcam theft, but it's only a matter of time once thieves realise there's a market. After all throw out the SD card and the theft evidence disappears, plus if your vehicle is broken into, your insurance goes up to pay for the window / locks.

Well, if you leave a GoPro dangling from your windshield, well yes, I think thieves indeed may find such an item to be highly attractive but many of us opt for stealthy cameras such as the SG9665GC or similar wedge shaped cameras that look quite like factory installed OEM equipment and are not even quite so visible and noticeable from outside the car to begin with. Anyone living in such a high crime area would surely opt for something like this. The Street Guardian SGZC12RC is another extremely stealthy option that one might consider for permanent installation in a high crime area. In my vehicle, my SG9665GC is mounted so that it just peeks out from behind the frit and is hard to see or notice at all. My Mobius cams are also stealthily installed and difficult to see from outside my vehicle. Even when detectable, I've learned that for the uninitiated they don't even register as cameras unless you know what you are looking at. Additionally, once installed properly a camera like the SG9665GC or Viofo A119 lend themselves to easy mounting and dismounting if that is your preference. With my Mobius cams I will sometimes just put the lens cap back on and stick it in a shirt pocket until I get back to my house if I decide to remove any of them from my vehicle. It is that easy to avoid dropping them.

You wouldn't believe the number of times my GoPro mount has fallen off the screen. Hardly a poor quality mount.

Well, if you have a large high quality suction mount like the GoPro that is falling off your windshield it is likely not installed properly. These tend to remain in place securely, even on the outside of a moving vehicle until intentionally disengaged.

Silicone suction mounts tend to be magnets for dust and fine particles and overtime this can lead to a loss of suction or improper adhesion in the first place. The silicone cup should be swabbed with a damp rag and allowed to dry before installing. At the same time, it is vital to properly clean and prepare the windshield glass before installing the suction mount. Finally, one needs to apply appropriate pressure on the mount to remove as much air as possible before engaging the vacuum lever on such mounts. Your results will be more successful if you follow these simple proceedures. For me, I have had suction mounts that have remained secure for many, many months at a time, although after long experience I've now come to prefer the benefits of an adhesive mount for permanence and stealth and use suction mounts only for temporary installations.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything wrong with ruggidized cameras. Do we really want to pay £ / E / $200 for a cheap piece of brittle plastic or something made from quality materials and construction. I know what I want from spending that much money and if action cam companies like SJ can ruggidise cameras for well under a £/ E / $100, then I see no reason why dashcam manufacturers couldn't ruggidise cameras without any significant extra cost.

I'd say it is just you. If you believe that manufacturers should produce dash cams intended to be dropped repeatedly onto the pavement because you are unwilling to put the thing into a small protective case I'm certain you will be waiting for a very, very long time indeed. Even action cameras are not made to such standards that they can be repeatedly dropped onto concrete, especially when they are not in one of those waterproof impact housings which in and of themselves have their limits. Action cams may seem rugged but they are by no means indestructible if repeatedly abused. And ruggedized external housings like those seen on most action cameras will never be seen on a dash cam, because of heat retention if nothing else and an exposed lens will be vulnerable to direct impact no matter how rugged the camera housing may seem.

 

[c4rc4m]

Respectfully, removing and reinstalling a dash cam 22,000 times with no end in sight to the process sounds downright daft if you ask me but if that's your pleasure, I guess that is up to you.

Nope it's far dafter to leave a £200 camera on view, have your vehicle broken into, lose a £200 camera, £200 on the window repair and face at least a £100 rise in your insurance for the next 3-5 years, instead of removing it.

Well, if you leave a GoPro dangling from your windshield, well yes, I think thieves indeed may find such an item to be highly attractive but many of us opt for stealthy cameras such as the SG9665GC or similar wedge shaped cameras that look quite like factory installed OEM equipment and are not even quite so visible and noticeable from outside the car to begin with.

Whereas I want a camera to be as small as possible, the quality of image is the most important factor.

Well, if you have a large high quality suction mount like the GoPro that is falling off your windshield it is likely not installed properly. These tend to remain in place securely, even on the outside of a moving vehicle until intentionally disengaged.

As I said before, the issue tends to be a dry windscreen from experience. Lack of moisture = poor to no suction even with a clean silicone mount.

I'd say it is just you. If you believe that manufacturers should produce dash cams intended to be dropped repeatedly onto the pavement because you are unwilling to put the thing into a small protective case I'm certain you will be waiting for a very, very long time indeed. Even action cameras are not made to such standards that they can be repeatedly dropped onto concrete, especially when they are not in one of those waterproof impact housings which in and of themselves have their limits. Action cams may seem rugged but they are by no means indestructible if repeatedly abused. And ruggedized external housings like those seen on most action cameras will never be seen on a dash cam, because of heat retention if nothing else and an exposed lens will be vulnerable to direct impact no matter how rugged the camera housing may seem.

Having just spoken to one of the biggest dashcam manufacturers about feedback, they seemed very interested in the idea of a more rugged camera. Yep not camera is every going to be totally drop proof. Even my Mobius M1 eventually landed lens down. However, for £200, I don't expect cheap brittle plastic as on many cameras.

 

[Dashmellow]

Nope it's far dafter to leave a £200 camera on view, have your vehicle broken into, lose a £200 camera, £200 on the window repair and face at least a £100 rise in your insurance for the next 3-5 years, instead of removing it.



Whereas I want a camera to be as small as possible, the quality of image is the most important factor.



As I said before, the issue tends to be a dry windscreen from experience. Lack of moisture = poor to no suction even with a clean silicone mount.



Having just spoken to one of the biggest dashcam manufacturers about feedback, they seemed very interested in the idea of a more rugged camera. Yep not camera is every going to be totally drop proof. Even my Mobius M1 eventually landed lens down. However, for £200, I don't expect cheap brittle plastic as on many cameras.

Well, good luck in your endeavors, my fumble fingered friend. And do keep us posted when your ruggedized dash cam shows up in the mail.

Me? I guess I'll just keep using care in handling my cameras, some basic common sense and my trusty tote bag.

 

[kamkar]

The Sitcom Home improvement with Tim Allen was called ( translated ) 10 thumbs in Danish.

10 thumbs is a saying we have if you are fumble fingered, and while thumbs are indeed cool fingers to have i am sure all thumbs would indeed be problematic.

 

[c4rc4m]

Well, good luck in your endeavors, my fumble fingered friend. And do keep us posted when your ruggedized dash cam shows up in the mail.

Me? I guess I'll just keep using care in handling my cameras, some basic common sense and my trusty tote bag.

Thanks for the good wishes. As I said, I have too many things to juggle when entering the house and I simply don't need another bag or box in the car as there's a boot full of stuff already.

 

[Dashmellow]

Thanks for the good wishes. As I said, I have too many things to juggle when entering the house and I simply don't need another bag or box in the car as there's a boot full of stuff already.

Good lord! How could placing all those many items you are juggling when entering your house into a single tote bag or satchel not reduce the number of items you need to carry? Why would anyone who is concerned about chronically dropping cameras not avail themselves of such a simple solution? Astonishing logic! Go figure?

Well, like I said, best of luck. There's obviously nothing more to be said here.

 

[c4rc4m]

It's ok now, as I've just found a perfect cam I'm going to get when I get the Vico refund, so no longer need to look at the M2.

It's the DDPai M6 Plus. Looks like a fairly rugged shape, easy to pocket due to the shape and the fact it attached to the mount magnetically. It's discrete from the front and looks cheap enough from the front not to be worth stealing. The video quality looks better than the Opia 2, and it costs just £95 complete with GPS, which whilst I don't want GPS, does allow you to turn speed recording off. Its also has an excellent parking mode. Almost sounds too good to be true. Maybe it is. I know there have been a dew issues reported in the DDPai thread. However, it looks worth a try - they seem to be refunding faulty ones no quibble by the looks of it.

 

[Dashmellow]

It's ok now, as I've just found a perfect cam I'm going to get when I get the Vico refund, so no longer need to look at the M2.

It's the DDPai M6 Plus. Looks like a fairly rugged shape, easy to pocket due to the shape and the fact it attached to the mount magnetically. It's discrete from the front and looks cheap enough from the front not to be worth stealing. The video quality looks better than the Opia 2, and it costs just £95 complete with GPS, which whilst I don't want GPS, does allow you to turn speed recording off. Its also has an excellent parking mode. Almost sounds too good to be true. Maybe it is. I know there have been a dew issues reported in the DDPai thread. However, it looks worth a try - they seem to be refunding faulty ones no quibble by the looks of it.

Like I said the yesterday, I wish you good luck in your dash camera endeavors but I'm of the humble opinion that this thread is not the place to be posting commentary about and a Techmoan video review of the DDPai M6 +.

And after it arrives, assuming you do keep it, I just hope you don't drop the damned thing.