Mini 0803 coming

[spotmom]

From the 0803: Windshield and camera just cleaned. There are 2 pics from the camera just sitting in the drive, one full screen and one zoomed into the gravel right under the nose of the car. The gravel looks like giant gray potato chips, not gravel. That is the same view I get from a license plate, just blur.

The pic from the intersection is in the 2304 x 1296 setting with WDR off. Pretty soft image and if I zoom in a little it is that watercolor look, everything runs together. Not much detail. Looks exactly the same as the 1080p.

The picture with the car in front is in a parking lot. We are just about to touch bumpers, maybe 3 feet apart. I can't even see if the person in the car is a man or woman. I can at least read the plate, but it isn't very sharp.

 

[V8Rocks]

From the 0803: Windshield and camera just cleaned. There are 2 pics from the camera just sitting in the drive, one full screen and one zoomed into the gravel right under the nose of the car. The gravel looks like giant gray potato chips, not gravel. That is the same view I get from a license plate, just blur.

The pic from the intersection is in the 2304 x 1296 setting with WDR off. Pretty soft image and if I zoom in a little it is that watercolor look, everything runs together. Not much detail. Looks exactly the same as the 1080p.

The picture with the car in front is in a parking lot. We are just about to touch bumpers, maybe 3 feet apart. I can't even see if the person in the car is a man or woman. I can at least read the plate, but it isn't very sharp.

Yeah, the picture quality is awful - I am preparing my unit for return. Even if it would be fixed - the bit rate is just crazy - it would be eating SD cards for breakfast.

 

[pewe]

I agree.
These images are terrible - as bad as my crap mobile phone.

I think I am definitely going to wait for a while after release of the final production units to see if there is any improvements to the image quality and the bit rate issue.

 

[shrimpsiumai]

Ouch, looks like this camera isn't living up to par yet when it's suppose to be an upgrade from 0801.... I really hope these quality issues will be fixed because there's a lot of potential.

 

[Hilts]

From the 0803: Windshield and camera just cleaned. There are 2 pics from the camera just sitting in the drive, one full screen and one zoomed into the gravel right under the nose of the car. The gravel looks like giant gray potato chips, not gravel. That is the same view I get from a license plate, just blur.

The pic from the intersection is in the 2304 x 1296 setting with WDR off. Pretty soft image and if I zoom in a little it is that watercolor look, everything runs together. Not much detail. Looks exactly the same as the 1080p.

The picture with the car in front is in a parking lot. We are just about to touch bumpers, maybe 3 feet apart. I can't even see if the person in the car is a man or woman. I can at least read the plate, but it isn't very sharp.

Yeah, the picture quality is awful - I am preparing my unit for return. Even if it would be fixed - the bit rate is just crazy - it would be eating SD cards for breakfast.

I agree.
These images are terrible - as bad as my crap mobile phone.

I think I am definitely going to wait for a while after release of the final production units to see if there is any improvements to the image quality and the bit rate issue.

Ouch, looks like this camera isn't living up to par yet when it's suppose to be an upgrade from 0801.... I really hope these quality issues will be fixed because there's a lot of potential.

I am not sure why some of the sellers decided to flog the Pre-Production Mini 0803's as the 'real deal' when it is clear as day (well, somewhat fuzzy really) that the images are not of saleable quality. Perhaps it's time to name and shame these sellers??!
I have heard from a knowledgeable authority [you know who you are] that the Final Production Mini 0803's, coming through from the manufacturer now, are vastly improved. There is still some fine tuning to be done, which will be covered by future FW updates.

 

[David Pincus]

Rayman indicated the fuzziness was the result of limitations with the image sensor. I predict the "final production" 0803's will have the exact same performance and problems. Time will tell.

 

[shrimpsiumai]

I am not sure why some of the sellers decided to flog the Pre-Production Mini 0803's as the 'real deal' when it is clear as day (well, somewhat fuzzy really) that the images are not of saleable quality. Perhaps it's time to name and shame these sellers??!
I have heard from a knowledgeable authority [you know who you are] that the Final Production Mini 0803's, coming through from the manufacturer now, are vastly improved. There is still some fine tuning to be done, which will be covered by future FW updates.

What worries me the most is if they decide to "upgrade" hardware/optics after the "final" version is out. I just wish they would put out one final version and just update firmware.

 

[Hilts]

Rayman indicated the fuzziness was the result of limitations with the image sensor. I predict the "final production" 0803's will have the exact same performance and problems. Time will tell.

Many of the A7 chipset Ambarella's were suffering from issues, e.g., http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/thread...-wdr-ldws-fcws-gps-cpl.3674/page-5#post-60878
Ambarella have been working hard to resolve it and are making good headway.

 

[Hilts]

What worries me the most is if they decide to "upgrade" hardware/optics after the "final" version is out. I just wish they would put out one final version and just update firmware.

I far as I am aware there are no further hardware changes planned for the 'Final Production' Mini 0803, only future FW updates.

 

[Hilts]

It's a real shame that the Pre-Production (sample units) were sold on! This seems to have really knocked the confidence in the Mini 0803's capabilities. Time will tell, or as a cook might say the "proof is in the pudding"!
I have a 'Final Production' Mini 0803 on order, but not dispatched yet. If it proves good enough then my Mobius will take a back-seat.

 

[pewe]

Rayman indicated the fuzziness was the result of limitations with the image sensor. I predict the "final production" 0803's will have the exact same performance and problems. Time will tell.

I have a Panasonic FZ200 - it is a 12MP camera.
Previously I had a Panasonic FZ100 which was only in production for a year because the image quality was resulting in images like those shown for the 0803 earlier. The reason - it was a 14MP camera and the 'experts' decided that the image resolution was to high for the small camera sensor to handle well. The replacement 12MP camera made all the difference.

It could be that we have a similar issue here - ie camera sensor too small for the resolution - resulting in unsharp imagery.

I also see that the camera sensor has been reduced from 5MP CMOS to 3MP CMOS - which would affect the image quality and being a new sensor cannot be compared to the 0801, it is a different beast.
Also the 2304*1296 (2.99MP) images are pushing the 3 MP sensor to its limits - which may affect the quality too.

@spotmom
As an afterthought - were the images you posted actual photo shots, or were they stills from the camera?

I have to admit on reflection though, that I am not too interested in 'photo' capability of the 0803 - I have an excellent camera for photos. I want a dashcam for recording good quality video, so as long as the final unit does this well, and the bitrate is sorted, I'd be content.

 

[jokiin]

dashcams generally take pretty poor photos

this model never had a 5mp sensor so it hasn't been reduced

the problem has been oversharpening and has been a fix that Ambarella has had to sort out, it is much better now than the original version back in January was which was very poor to say the least, there's room for further improvement still but a big improvement overall

 

[pewe]

this model never had a 5mp sensor so it hasn't been reduced

I never had one so was taking the information from the Fox site here

 

[jokiin]

I never had one so was taking the information from the Fox site here

spec listed shows 2M/5M, I'll assume the 5M is referring to an interpolated resolution for photos but the sensor is an OV2710 which is a 2mp sensor, details here http://www.ovt.com/download_document.php?type=sensor&sensorid=33

that aside though this info is for the 0801 which has no bearing on the 0803 which although it looks the same externally is all new inside, the 0803 uses the AR0330 sensor which is 3.5mp, details available here http://www.aptina.com/products/image_sensors/ar0330/

 

[leggo]

Jokiin, do you think the final mass produced 0803 model is much better than the pre-production model?

 

[jokiin]

Jokiin, do you think the final mass produced 0803 model is much better than the pre-production model?

the lens they are using is better, how much better is subjective

the firmware has been improved a lot already, this was the major issue, there is room for further improvement but this will take some time, how much further it can or will be improved is unknown, realistically anyone wanting to purchase the 0803 should make their decision based only on what it delivers today rather than what it might possibly deliver at some time further down the track, if improvements come then great, if not then nothing lost over what you already have

 

[leggo]

I have the pre production 0803.
Would I (as average Joe) see any difference if I were to buy the mass produced version?

 

[jokiin]

I have the pre production 0803.
Would I (as average Joe) see any difference if I were to buy the mass produced version?

the difference is there but it's minimal, firmware is the biggest problem in the units that shipped already which can obviously be updated after the fact

 

[pewe]

I'll assume the 5M is referring to an interpolated resolution for photos but the sensor is an OV2710 which is a 2mp sensor

that aside though this info is for the 0801 which has no bearing on the 0803 which although it looks the same externally is all new inside, the 0803 uses the AR0330 sensor which is 3.5mp

Forgive my lack of technical knowledge, but from the specs on these cameras the sensor size on the 0803 'appears' to be smaller than the 0801 (1/3 vs 1/2.7) but the image resolution is higher.
From previous experience I was lead to believe that to increase the resolution on a lens (let alone increase resolution on a smaller one) would degrade image quality.
However the sample video from the 0803 does look better than the 0801 (apart from the already mentioned issues).
So I am puzzled - but as I said I am not a technical expert so maybe I am misinformed or possibly missing something

 

[jokiin]

I think if the two sensors were from the same manufacturer the comparisons based purely on what's on paper would be more valid, I do appreciate this is all you have to go off, different product, different results, they each have their strengths and weaknesses

the 0803 can potentially provide a far better result because of what the chipset is capable of, all other things being equal the difference between the two sensors is not that great in the scheme of things but there are reasons for choosing one over the other depending on what you're trying to achieve