Mobius 5MP Varifocal Zoom 6-22mm ƒ/1.6

Aico make M12 lenses as well including rectilinear models. Probably might be worth a look sometime. How they compare in quality to one and other, I wouldn't know. However, there are some AICO lenses with very low distortion claimed @ around -2%. This compares to around + 30% or more from memory for some standard "high quality" (not Mobius) dashcam lenses I've seen listed on Chinese sites. I think I saw something somewhere on the AICO site that indicated they put the IR in the rear, but I could be wrong. The biggest issue I find with finding an accessory lens, is the sensor size. There are loads of M12, but aren't that many manufactured for tiny dashcam sized sensors.

Also, glad you found the cause of the smudging. Must admit, it had me puzzled. Such smudging is typical of compression issues, not the lens and it was hard to work out why motion would blur on one lens and not the other. Glad you got that sorted. Grease makes perfect sense!
 
AICO makes some nice lenses but they charge a lot to buy from them, to include shipping. They don't sell on Ali Express as a company (making it cheaper for all their lenses), when they do sell there it is from what I can see/figure to close out or get rid of some particular lens. Try picking out one of there lenses (AICO) you like and request a price (their website) shipped to your address, this will explain what I'm trying to tell you.

They do put the cut IR filters in the rear, but that is only for lenses with a set FL. The lenses with the zoom Focal lengths like the 6-22 must have the cut IR filter placed on the lens ring of the last element lens in the lens barrel so as not to interfere with the lens barrel movement itself. This is something that @Dashmellow found out in his research (discussed above).

As for the lenses and sensor size. You can have/use a larger lens diagonal sensor size then used on a cameras sensor size.
I'll give you a link that will explain this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/image_sensor_format

If it doesn't make sense to you come back and tell me and I'll explain it.

No comment on the smudging, I don't think it's settled yet.
 
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AICO makes some nice lenses but they charge a lot to buy from them, to include shipping. They don't sell on Ali Express as a company (making it cheaper for all their lenses), when they do sell there it is from what I can see/figure to close out or get rid of some particular lens. Try picking out one of there lenses (AICO) you like and request a price (their website) shipped to your address, this will explain what I'm trying to tell you.

They do put the cut IR filters in the rear, but that is only for lenses with a set FL. The lenses with the zoom Focal lengths like the 6-22 must have the cut IR filter placed on the lens ring of the last element lens in the lens barrel so as not to interfere with the lens barrel movement itself. This is something that @Dashmellow found out in his research (discussed above).

As for the lenses and sensor size. You can have/use a larger lens diagonal sensor size then used on a cameras sensor size.
I'll give you a link that will explain this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/image_sensor_format

If it doesn't make sense to you come back and tell me and I'll explain it.

No comment on the smudging, I don't think it's settled yet.


Yeah, we've talked about the sensor size vs lens coverage before (circle of coverage).

You might recall that I created a graphic to demonstrate. As long as the lens throws a circle of coverage large enough to exceed the size of the sensor, it doesn't matter what size sensor you have, except that the FOV provided may have more magnification than if the lens was matched specifically to the size of the sensor.

image_circle.jpg

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threa...g-with-4mm-f1-2-lens.31145/page-9#post-371230

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/mobius-varifocal-zoom-ir.30602/post-364081
 
AICO makes some nice lenses but they charge a lot to buy from them, to include shipping. They don't sell on Ali Express as a company (making it cheaper for all their lenses), when they do sell there it is from what I can see/figure to close out or get rid of some particular lens. Try picking out one of there lenses (AICO) you like and request a price (their website) shipped to your address, this will explain what I'm trying to tell you.

They do put the cut IR filters in the rear, but that is only for lenses with a set FL. The lenses with the zoom Focal lengths like the 6-22 must have the cut IR filter placed on the lens ring of the last element lens in the lens barrel so as not to interfere with the lens barrel movement itself. This is something that @Dashmellow found out in his research (discussed above).

As for the lenses and sensor size. You can have/use a larger lens diagonal sensor size then used on a cameras sensor size.
I'll give you a link that will explain this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/image_sensor_format

If it doesn't make sense to you come back and tell me and I'll explain it.

No comment on the smudging, I don't think it's settled yet.

The Wiki was long so I didn't read it, just skimmed, but I am aware you can use other sizes of lenses. The issue as Dashmallow illustrates above is you either get vignetting from the use of too small a diameter lens, or cropping ie read zooming from the use of too large a diameter lens. Although cropping is liveable, it does make choosing the focal length difficult as then you have to factor in not only the lens FOV but also the crop factor to ascertain the actual FOV after cropping. With cropping there's also going to be the resolution issue as well as you're cropping only some of the pixels onto a MP sensor and so still need enough resolution to exceed the pixel resolution of the sensor otherwise you're going to lose resolution.
 
The Wiki was long so I didn't read it, just skimmed, but I am aware you can use other sizes of lenses. The issue as Dashmallow illustrates above is you either get vignetting from the use of too small a diameter lens, or cropping ie read zooming from the use of too large a diameter lens. Although cropping is liveable, it does make choosing the focal length difficult as then you have to factor in not only the lens FOV but also the crop factor to ascertain the actual FOV after cropping. With cropping there's also going to be the resolution issue as well as you're cropping only some of the pixels onto a MP sensor and so still need enough resolution to exceed the pixel resolution of the sensor otherwise you're going to lose resolution.

Well, remember, this is a thread about a 5MP ƒ/1.6 6-22mm varifocal lens that is designed for a 1/2.5" sensor which we are using on a 1/3" sensor. While what you are saying is essentially valid, this lens performs beautifully throughout its range.

I find there's a big difference between making assumptions based on reading technical lens and sensor specs on the internet and actually getting your hands on a lens and seeing just what it can do.
 
I agree, you never truly find out what a lens is capable of until you try it. As for lens vs sensor sizing, when it's close, you can get the result you've found because I'm pretty sure lens manufacturers design in a bit of a margin for error simply because they want to avoid vignetting. It's always better to over fill than to vignette.
 
I agree, you never truly find out what a lens is capable of until you try it. As for lens vs sensor sizing, when it's close, you can get the result you've found because I'm pretty sure lens manufacturers design in a bit of a margin for error simply because they want to avoid vignetting. It's always better to over fill than to vignette.

I'm a bit puzzled why you seem to keep bringing up things that are not quite germane to the subject at hand here and so I made an effort to clarify what we are actually discussing and working with here when I said above, "Well, remember, this is a thread about a 5MP ƒ/1.6 6-22mm varifocal lens that is designed for a 1/2.5" sensor which we are using on a 1/3" sensor."

In your response to my comment above you state that: "As for lens vs sensor sizing, when it's close, you can get the result you've found because I'm pretty sure lens manufacturers design in a bit of a margin for error simply because they want to avoid vignetting. It's always better to over fill than to vignette."

"Margin of error" has nothing whatsoever to do with the my results from this lens!

For one thing. I'm not clear how you even reach the conclusion that lens manufacturers design for a margin error as optics are generally designed to very exacting specifications to match specific sensors, which are also designed to very exacting specifications. Each lens design throws an image circle of different size but they are ALL designed to accommodate their rated specs rather than some "margin or error". I mean, you can characterize this as a "margin of error" but they are simply designed to do what they do, which is to throw an image circle large enough to cover the sensor they are rated for, otherwise they would not perform according to their rated specs. Lens designers don't say to themselves, "Hmmm....I think I'll add a little extra, just in case."

Your comments here suggest that you have some misconceptions about the design of this particular 6-22mm varifocal lens as well as how sensor sizes actually work. Any so called "margin of error" in conjunction with your concerns about potential vignetting are not relevant here as that's not how this works!

For one thing, the 6-22mm ƒ/1.6 varifocal lens is designed specifically for a 1/2.5" image sensor. The Mobius camera uses a 1/3" sensor. Thus, the lens throws an image circle that is significantly larger than the camera's sensor and so vignetting is not in any way an issue. This has nothing to do with a manufacturer designing in some "margin of error", this is simply a matter of a lens designed for a larger sensor size than the one in the camera it is mounted on.

Sensor sizing can be somewhat confusing because of the way the terminology is applied. In this case, the varifocal lens is designed to accommodate a 1/2.5" image sensor which measures 5.76mm by 4.29mm (7.18 diagonal).
The Mobius uses a 1/3" sensor which measures 4.8 x 3.6 mm (6mm diagonal). This is why vignetting would be of no concern here.

Secondly, you raised the concern about image cropping. This is not particularly relevant in this situation because of the particular sensor involved and this is what @Lola was actually referring to in her post (which was accurate).

To quote you: "With cropping there's also going to be the resolution issue as well as you're cropping only some of the pixels onto a MP sensor and so still need enough resolution to exceed the pixel resolution of the sensor otherwise you're going to lose resolution."

The 1/3" Aptina AR0330 sensor used in the Mobius has a CMOS array of 2304 x 1296 pixels. It uses pixel binning to scale this down to 1920 x 1080 when set to "wide mode". If you set the camera to shoot in "narrow mode", it captures a full 1920 x 1080 image directly from the center most portion of the CMOS array with no scaling. So again, we have a non-issue. No matter how much the image is cropped due to the size of the image circle thrown by the 5MP varifocal lens you will never lose enough resolution to be concerned with in any practical manner.
 
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I agree with you Tony that dashmellow had a solution to the problem, Tyeere just provided a work around, somewhat (fix), brute force is not the answer, more glue. If they don't change their method of dealing with Varifocal lenses eventually the word will get out and their business will be hurt badly. It's a shame because he spent a lot of his time describing the problem and talking to them.
Personally I have my doubts about the more glue fix actually working for long.
Possibly the new method hasn't trickled down to the workers, who knows!
 
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I agree with you Tony that dashmellow had a solution to the problem, Tyeere just provided a work around, somewhat (fix). If they don't change their method of dealing with Varifocal lenses eventyually the word will get out and their business will be hurt badly. It's a shame because he spent a lot of his time describing the problem and talking to them.
Possibly the new method hasn't trickled down to the workers, who knows!
To be fair, Treeye shipped the replacement lens to me before Dashmellow was able to demonstrate his alternative filter solution to them.
 
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It appears that my replacement 6-22mm varifocal has lost a huge amount of zoom range at the wide end, due to the blob of glue inside the lens that I mentioned earlier.

This is the FOV at the widest available setting on the replacement 6-22mm varifocal lens:
View attachment 38577

This is the FOV from the same position, recorded through my 6mm F1.2 lens
View attachment 38578

That's close to a 50% crop from the FOV on the fixed 6mm lens. Thankfully that's about the focal length I was going to use with this varifocal lens ;)
Note: Both lenses are designed for a 1/2.5" sensor.

@TonyM.
I mentioned earlier in this thread that I am rather reticent to comment further here about what happened with your lens and a good part of that has to do with the fact that I feel like I am in an awkward position because so much of what has actually occurred with your experience goes back an entire month already to May 1st when you engaged me in a rather lengthy PM conversation before you had even received delivery of this lens when you were already expressing concerns about back focal length, the lens mount and potential focus and focal length issues. Everything you've reported here has begun to feel like some sort of self fulfilling prophesy that never really needed to happen. I feel that the picture you portray about this lens is somewhat misleading because it is quite a different one than what occurred in our private conversations which you've conveniently left out of your commentary here. There may or may not be a better explanation to why you've had so much trouble here but what you have been reporting has not been my experience at all. I'm not quite sure what to say at this point, if anything, although I do indeed have much to say about it. For the time being, I'm going to do nothing, except think about all this for a day or two, because I have better, more interesting things to spend my time on in regard my own particular experience with this 6-22mm varifocal lens, but stay tuned.
 
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OK, so Treeye sent me several 9.5mm IR-cut filters to play with and I installed one on my 6-22mm lens with great success. Treeye did a great job of getting the filters to me extremely fast as they arrived two days ago and they came extremely well packaged in a small cardboard carton when they just as easily could have been sent in an envelope.

Back before this whole IR-cut filter debacle occurred one of the first things I discovered about this new varifocal lens is that it has AMAZING macro photography capabilities. It is astonishing that a lens designed for a CCTV camera can focus this close! It can focus even closer that what I am about to show you here and I'll demonstrate that in a future post. I was quite busy yesterday but I was already excited to try a macro project so I made some time and did a quick set up on a convenient ant colony out in my yard. When you watch this video keep in mind that these tiny little ants are barely three millimeters long! Personally, I'm not so worried about whether this lens can achieve its ultimate zoom and wide angle specs (although I'm not seeing any significant problems). This appears to be a very sharp, capable, high resolution lens and I plan to have a lot of fun with it. Oh, BTW, first test results show this lens to make for a killer telephoto dash cam. I'll post more on that soon.


crop.jpg

macro3.jpg

macro2.jpg

macro1.jpg
 
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that's some pretty good macro results there

Yes, there's a lot of interesting potential here. I was excited to try this and post about it but I could see right away how much more this can be optimized. I barely had time yesterday, so I set it up quickly and went back to work but I can see where focus and depth of field can be improved. I had no time to experiment with zooming the lens or trying to achieve a better angle of view for example. Choice of subject matter will make a difference too. This is going to be a great lens for involving kids in video, and entomology (umm...bug pics in the kid's vernacular :joyful:) One again, an example of why I love the Mobius platform so much. There's nothing else quite like this little camera.
 
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My two boys are really into bugs and all sorts of wildlife. I will show them your video and suggest that we try something similar at home.
 
I was initially in such a hurry trying to get this all together yesterday that I completely forgot that my camera was set for tungsten lighting, hence the weird colors in this image. It's a crappy photo but it shows the whole operation involved at one point in capturing this video as the sun kept coming in and out of the clouds which I think some will find interesting, so what the hell.

macro4.jpg
 
the colours are still a bit off on the Maxi and need some further work but I can see the higher spec sensor working pretty good for something like this
 
the colours are still a bit off on the Maxi and need some further work but I can see the higher spec sensor working pretty good for something like this

Yes, I'm very much looking forward to checking out the Maxi. One is on the way!
 
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the colours are still a bit off on the Maxi and need some further work but I can see the higher spec sensor working pretty good for something like this
I intend to try a varifocal lens on my Maxi soon. Today I tested the video out over USB. The Maxi comes with its own 10pin wiring harness, and connects to the RCA wiring from the Mobius 1.
 
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