Mobius Maxi F1.5 2.7k

[TonyM]

@c4rc4m aside from the video playback issue, what are your first impressions of the Maxi?

 

[c4rc4m]

It's a shame about the compatibility. I can only conclude, Mobius appear to have deviated from the standard MP4 specs.

As for my impressions....

At Extreme settings, the files are very large. That aside, I'd say the overall quality at "Extreme Fine", is the best I've seen from a dashcam allowing for the fact that the raked windscreen on my car produces horrible reflections. I can see an immediate difference between the quality of this and other cameras in daylight and can imagine without the reflections, it would be excellent.

However, I have found some image quality issues - for me these aren't totally unexpected as I was only able to test during dusk / dark. I found that even at quite light dusk, although the video quality looked good, number plates were blurred and pretty much irretrievable. Obviously this got worse as it got darker. I think I'd have to put this down to shutter speed. I haven't had an opportunity to try the camera in full daylight yet, although given Harsh's pics, I expect number plate retrieval to be good. I was a little disappointed at how bad retrieval was in the light dusk though as there was comparatively quite a bit of light around.

One thing that was aweful though was setting the camera up. I bought the capacitor pack and put this in. I then added the Transcend Endurance Card from my previous Viofo, and this is where the issues started. The camera / app wouldn't see the card or allow me to format it from the app. I downloaded Mobius's card testing app to be sure it was ok, and ran it but when it became apparent it was going to be slow, I stopped it using abort. Fine except then, whatever it had written to the card was then stopping my pc from accessing it fully!

Any attempt to format it using a right click, caused Windows Explorer to crash, a black screen then a Windows Explorer reboot. In the end I had to go to the Transcend Website, download their card app, and perform a full format using their app, which took 1.5 hrs in order to access the card. After that, after a few attempts I was able to format the card in the app and eventually update the firmware to version 1.9, which had failed a few times before - here's another slight app / instruction issue, there are no instructions for updating firmware when you have caps fitted instead of a battery. The standard instructions tell you to ensure the battery is fully charged 1st and then says updating takes 30-40 secs on battery to occur! With caps, the camera powers down almost instantly when disconnected contravening the important instruction to keep the camera powered!

Having said that, I found eventually when I got the SD working in the Mobius, it did eventually update the firmware after several attempts and appeared to update after the camera was reconnected following the disconnect.

Another thing to beware of, is when the camera is 1st connected to a USB power supply, it goes into mass storage mode which then causes it not to show in the Mobius app. There are instructions in the app to overcome this - you press the shutter button once. However, it's not intuitive in my opinion as you have to see the message between the mobius camera screen and settings screen and then press the 2nd half of the message to get up an instruction box containing the solution instruction.

Overall though, plate retrieval at dusk / dark aside, 1st impressions are this is going to be one of the best pictures out there.

 

[country_hick]

It's a shame about the compatibility. I can only conclude, Mobius appear to have deviated from the standard MP4 specs.

As for my impressions.... I was a little disappointed at how bad retrieval was in the light dusk though as there was comparatively quite a bit of light around. (T)here's another slight app / instruction issue, there are no instructions for updating firmware when you have caps fitted instead of a battery. Another thing to beware of, is when the camera is 1st connected to a USB power supply, it goes into mass storage mode which then causes it not to show in the Mobius app. it's not intuitive as you have to see the message between the mobius camera screen and settings screen and then press the 2nd half of the message to get up an instruction box containing the solution instruction.

Overall though, plate retrieval at dusk / dark aside, 1st impressions are this is going to be one of the best pictures out there.

I wonder if mobius deviated from the mp4 specs or if many apps are not able to handle these large video files especially on older computers. If the mp4 standard was badly implemented a firmware change can fix that problem.

I agree that low light image capture could be improved. Hopefully a bit of programming by the developer can improve that issue as suggested here: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threa...fantastic-the-reality-is-not-there-yet.36064/

Using Msetup is confusing (at first). I pressed buttons until it finally worked. Now I know how to get in and out easily. I suspect this is a result of mobius programming its cam to act in a certain way that the app writer can not bypass. I have updated firmware using Msetup alone.

P.S. I wish mobius would offer a cpl filter or at least a 25mm lens mount to which we could add a cpl (or other) filter at a reasonable price.

 

[Dashmellow]

At one time Mobius tested a CPL for the M2 and even considered building it permanently into the lens but as might be expected it was not viable at night. I was told it might become an add-on accessory but it never went into production. Perhaps we may see one introduced for the Maxi at some point?

 

[dirkzelf]

I found that even at quite light dusk, although the video quality looked good, number plates were blurred and pretty much irretrievable. Obviously this got worse as it got darker.

You are correct, BUT, this is almost impossible for cams in this price range. However, it is totally viable to high expectations because on the sales page Mobius wants us to believe otherwise by placing this image below.

 

[c4rc4m]

I think Dirkzelf their advertising is probably correct in those circumstances as in crawling to stationary traffic as show above, there's no movement so little blur from a slow shutter. Also, by and large all of those plates are shot from almost straight behind which helps greatly. The issue with shutter blur blur is more prominent where there's movement of each vehicle in different directions relative to each other at speed as then there's more movement at the end of the frame relative to the position of the capture at the start.

As I can't put up edit the videos atm, here's a still from mine at light dusk - you can also see this illustrated in the stationary cars - their plates are sharp in the distance as there's little relative change in position, but the van that's almost next to me and moving is totally blurred out - classic signs of slow shutter being the cause here in my opinion. Both vehicles were doing around 20mph.

Sunset time was 19.32pm Recorded time was 19.21pm so 11 minutes before sundown:




Other than that, it's hard to tell from the stills because of the individual frame blur, but the pictures otherwise look very nice. In this one taken a couple of minutes later (so nearer to dark), you can see the bollard straight ahead looks quite crisp considering the slow shutter (obviously very little movement relative to the vehicle, but it indicates what the camera will probably deliver in better lighting.
If it can be quite crisp with a slow shutter, imagine with a faster one).

There's nice saturation. There appears to be detail in the trees and grass, albeit they're blurred because of the slow shutter and movement once more. However, the detail appears to be there. I imagine (still to be tested) in much better daylight conditions, the picture it going to be rather good and probably one of the very best. It doesn't look bad as video instead of stills even in these lo light conditions. Only caveat to this is what effect reducing from extreme fine to fine will have on the picture.

 

[c4rc4m]

I wonder if mobius deviated from the mp4 specs or if many apps are not able to handle these large video files especially on older computers. If the mp4 standard was badly implemented a firmware change can fix that problem.

I doubt it's file size. I've pulled in multi-gig files before. I'm running 16gb of memory and even then, it still refuses to pull in a single smaller file of 750mbs. Hence why I suspect as slight deviation from standard spec. It doesn't take much. I can adjust the MP4 settings in the video editor when I output (depending on the codec used - there are several different MP4 codecs as well - the most compatible being Mainconcept and Sony), sometimes just the wrong data rate here or other compression setting can make the file un-openable in other common programs. VLC plays them perfectly (where I took the screen captures from), but VLC has almost universal compatability. Don't forget as well, Vegas Pro is the Professional version so compatability with files types should also be high as should its compatability with large files / high data rates (most broadcast cameras record at rates of over 100mbs).

 

[TonyM]

@c4rc4m I'm surprised you had so much trouble with your SD card. I've moved cards between A119/A129 and my Maxi without any such issues.

I think you will find a noticeable quality drop going from 'extreme fine' to 'super fine'. The extra compression seems to affect detail quite a lot at 2.7k resolution.

I agree that the in-camera format instructions are misleading for capacitor-equipped cameras. The same applies to the M1 & M2 with capacitor. Obviously you need to maintain power to the camera whilst it is doing a card format or firmware update.

 

[c4rc4m]

I think the initial issue was there were still some files on the Viofo used card, notably the boot loader. I'm guessing they probably interfered with or confused the update from the Mobius. The more surprising issue though was how the card test app from the Mobius website left the card un-formattable in the PC and caused Windows Explorer to restart, That was the real issue. Luckily, the format of the card using the Transcend app did the trick. Not the easiest of starts to ownership though.

 

[TonyM]

The more surprising issue though was how the card test app from the Mobius website left the card un-formattable in the PC and caused Windows Explorer to restart, That was the real issue.

What Mobius website?? They don't have one.

 

[c4rc4m]

A closer looks shows it's an authorised dealers website: https://www.mobius-actioncam.com/downloads-info/

 

[dirkzelf]

I think Dirkzelf their advertising is probably correct in those circumstances as in crawling to stationary traffic as show above, there's no movement so little blur from a slow shutter. Also, by and large all of those plates are shot from almost straight behind which helps greatly. The issue with shutter blur blur is more prominent where there's movement of each vehicle in different directions relative to each other at speed as then there's more movement at the end of the frame relative to the position of the capture at the start.

As I can't put up edit the videos atm, here's a still from mine at light dusk - you can also see this illustrated in the stationary cars - their plates are sharp in the distance as there's little relative change in position, but the van that's almost next to me and moving is totally blurred out - classic signs of slow shutter being the cause here in my opinion. Both vehicles were doing around 20mph.

Sunset time was 19.32pm Recorded time was 19.21pm so 11 minutes before sundown:




Other than that, it's hard to tell from the stills because of the individual frame blur, but the pictures otherwise look very nice. In this one taken a couple of minutes later (so nearer to dark), you can see the bollard straight ahead looks quite crisp considering the slow shutter (obviously very little movement relative to the vehicle, but it indicates what the camera will probably deliver in better lighting.
If it can be quite crisp with a slow shutter, imagine with a faster one).

There's nice saturation. There appears to be detail in the trees and grass, albeit they're blurred because of the slow shutter and movement once more. However, the detail appears to be there. I imagine (still to be tested) in much better daylight conditions, the picture it going to be rather good and probably one of the very best. It doesn't look bad as video instead of stills even in these lo light conditions. Only caveat to this is what effect reducing from extreme fine to fine will have on the picture.

I know all of what you are saying above. There's just the illusion created by the seller to make the buyer convincing himself "that's what I want"!!

I've been years in sales and marketing, and I know the tricks when I see one... Nevertheless it's the buyer him or herself to decide what's what, and I believe new buyers to dashcams may be lead to believe that this camera sees all license plates even in the dark hours, just by viewing the nice pictures. It would be more honest to show a real video, instead of some still pictures.

 

[Dashmellow]

I know all of what you are saying above. There's just the illusion created by the seller to make the buyer convincing himself "that's what I want"!!

The sad thing is that all of us here know what we are looking at but the average consumer doesn't have the knowledge or experience to know just how misleading those images are.

 

[c4rc4m]

I know all of what you are saying above. There's just the illusion created by the seller to make the buyer convincing himself "that's what I want"!!

I've been years in sales and marketing, and I know the tricks when I see one... Nevertheless it's the buyer him or herself to decide what's what, and I believe new buyers to dashcams may be lead to believe that this camera sees all license plates even in the dark hours, just by viewing the nice pictures. It would be more honest to show a real video, instead of some still pictures.

I try to give full explanations because there are people new to forums like this. Also, not all members have equal knowledge and it's good to share on a forum like this, and debate, and further your own education or learn where you are mistaken. It's how we take the whole forum and industry forwards.

What they have done in their advertising is the same as any company does, put their best face forwards. I'm sure it's entirely accurate - I have little doubt that I could reproduce those results in stationary or slow moving traffic simply because a slow shutter doesn't matter if there's little to no movement (as you know). However, yes people without that knowledge may expect all night pictures to return sharp plate images.

The answer as well known is to increase either the frame rate or shutter speed (both really are much the same with these types of cameras as increased frame rate often results in a reduction in the shutter time in any event to fit the extra frames in). The issue here is then whether the grain becomes out of control through too much electronic gain, or the picture becomes too dark. I personally, think that light dusk is one area where it might be possible to increase the shutter speed. However, I doubt much can be done about after dark. It's worth remembering though that even the best night dashcams struggle to retrieve sharp plates in darkness. The only comfort here is that if a car hits you, it usually comes to a stop nearby so getting a plate afterwards shouldn't be too difficult. In the meantime, the images of the car prior to the crash provide at least some explanation of what occurred.

The ultimate answer for nightime still lies with larger sensors at present, but then you run into a whole new world of costly problems to support them.

 

[TonyM]

I am using a twin Maxi setup for testing. One with the F1.5 Lens B, the other with an F1.6 6-22mm varifocal lens. The A129 has an IMX291 sensor and an F1.6 lens (which looks identical to the Maxi Lens B) so it could provide some interesting comparisons.

 

[dirkzelf]

The sad thing is that all of us here know what we are looking at but the average consumer doesn't have the knowledge or experience to know just how misleading those images are.

Yep, my point exactly.

 

[dirkzelf]

I am using a twin Maxi setup for testing. One with the F1.5 Lens B, the other with an F1.6 6-22mm varifocal lens. The A129 has an IMX291 sensor and an F1.6 lens (which looks identical to the Maxi Lens B) so it could provide some interesting comparisons.

Be interesting for sure, keep us posted.... not that I need to ask, but there it is....

PS: Can you tell / show us more about that mount??!?! seems nice, magnets?

 

[TonyM]

PS: Can you tell / show us more about that mount??!?! seems nice, magnets?

This screen mount:


plus this SmallRig 1598 cheese plate:

and VHB tape holding the Maxi cradles in place

 

[Dashmellow]

I am using a twin Maxi setup for testing. One with the F1.5 Lens B, the other with an F1.6 6-22mm varifocal lens. The A129 has an IMX291 sensor and an F1.6 lens (which looks identical to the Maxi Lens B) so it could provide some interesting comparisons.

I purchased the same Small Rig cheese plate to use with the same ball joint mount so that I can run my M1 with 6-22mm ƒ/1.6 varifocal side by side with the Maxi and ƒ/1.5 Lens B lens. However, instead of using VHB tape to mount the camera to the cheeseboard I use 3M Dual-Lock Tape. This provides the ability to securely mount and adjust either camera forwards or backwards to compensate for each camera's coverage so that the longer varifocal lens doesn't end up in the FOV of the Maxi. To a certain extent you can also adjust the horizontal lateral angle of each camera left or right using Dual Lock tape. Of course, having the ability to securely mount and unmount cams to the cheeseboard at will is much easier than to having to contend with VHB tape. For example, you don't need to re-adjust the chesse plate orientation each time you remount the cameras. (Edit: Dual-Lock tape holds so securely that it is easy to accidentally move the ball joint mount. With expereince, I've learned to carefully twist the cameras sideways for removal without messing up the cheese board adjustment.)

With the Maxi, I apply the tape directly to the bottom of the camera, thus eliminating the cradle. With the M1, I keep a spare cradle on hand with Dual-Lock on the bottom that I've had in service for various projects for several years now. (like my baseball cap cam)

 

[Dashmellow]

If anyone is interested in purchasing the ball joint mount @TonyM provided a link to at £4.99 ($6.50 USD), they are widely available for far less. I've bought them for years from various vendors in China for my DIY mount projects and they are generally delivered within 10 days to 2 weeks time at a cost of ( give or take) $1.67 USD (£1.28) delivered.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332362298472