Mobius-sized 4K camera

[TonyM]

If Mobius or someone else were to release a 4K version of the popular Mobius 1, would anyone here be interested in it for dashcam use?

• Do you think 4K is only useful for an action camera to record short-duration videos?
• Would you invest in higher capacity SD cards to store large driving and parked videos at 4K (perhaps 256GB for 6 hours)?
• Would you risk your insurance company, lawyer, police etc. not being able to view your high-resolution, high-bitrate video evidence on their slow PC?
• Would you only consider a 4K dashcam if its low-light sensitivity can match the IMX291?

The GitUp F1 comes close to providing 4K in a Mobius-style body, but does not yet have a fast 130deg FOV lens or a capacitor option which limits its appeal as a dashcam, and its low-light performance does not match an IMX291 camera.

EDIT: Changed thread title to suit broader discussion around small 4K cameras

 

[jokiin]

IF Mobius were to release a 4K version of their popular Mobius 1, would anyone here be interested in it for dashcam use?

why does it have to be Mobius to release it? Given the products they've put out post M1 I'm not sure they're the best choice for a lot of people. the GitUp F1 is already close and wouldn't need a lot to fill the void

 

[kamkar]

Yes maybe a F1 V2.0, with godlike 4K EIS
Dont really need super low light performance as i would never use it as a dashcam.

 

[Dashmellow]

My answer is no.

Personally, I would like to see Mobius perfect 2.7K technology. I would love to see the Maxi developed with the same fanatic dedication to IQ that we saw in the M1 but apparently that is not likely to happen. Especially, it needs to dramatically enhance the fine tuning in the Advanced image controls to bring it up to Mobius 1 standards. As it is now, as only one example, one click higher on the sharpening control ruins the image and that will never do. I fear that a 4K product from Mobius would suffer the same fate, or worse. Quite some time ago, I stated my thinking that the Mobius 1 might have been a lightning-in-a-bottle product, the likes of which we will never see again and nothing has changed my opinion about that after all this time.

 

[Nigel]

• Do you think 4K is only useful for an action camera to record short-duration videos?

No, we will have decent 4K dashcams soon...ish.

• Would you invest in higher capacity SD cards to store large driving and parked videos at 4K (perhaps 256GB for 6 hours)?

Yes, it would be necessary, since H265 doesn't deliver on its promises and AV1 isn't going to appear in dashcams for another couple of years.

Fortunately prices of 256GB cards have been dropping towards reasonable for dashcam use and 256GB should probably give 8 to 10 hours of decent quality 4K. However since dual dashcams are now almost standard, 256GB may not be enough ... should the rear cam also be 4K or is 1080 OK?

• Would you risk your insurance company, lawyer, police etc. not being able to view your high-resolution, high-bitrate video evidence on their slow PC?

If recorded in H264 at a reasonable bitrate then that is probably not much of an issue, although it is unlikely they will have a 4K screen so will not see the advantage unless you edit the video and zoom in for them, in which case you might as well send them an edited 1080 video and remove any issue.

IF Mobius were to release a 4K version of their popular Mobius 1, would anyone here be interested in it for dashcam use?

I would not trust them to avoid the overheating issues that most 4K cameras suffer.

 

[Dashmellow]

I would not trust them to avoid the overheating issues that most 4K cameras suffer.

I would agree with that.

I was very impressed to see the way Gitup built the F1 however with an integrated sort of "chassis" and the pcb on a massive heat sink (plate), much more along the lines of how CCTV cams are built which is an approach I've be advocating for dash cams for some time now.

 

[Bungus]

No,
I wouldn't mind a improvement of Mobius 1 with better night capture and wi-fi.

 

[jokiin]

No,
I wouldn't mind a improvement of Mobius 1 with better night capture and wi-fi.

I think everyone would, can they deliver though, they've been stumbling the past few years

 

[Nigel]

No,
I wouldn't mind a improvement of Mobius 1 with better night capture and wi-fi.

I use a Viofo A129 for that, makes quite a good action camera apart from needing a power bank to power it, and has excellent night vision, even fits in my Gopro frame.

 

[Dashmellow]

I use a Viofo A129 for that, makes quite a good action camera apart from needing a power bank to power it, and has excellent night vision, even fits in my Gopro frame.

Image quality aside, the Mobius 1 form factor is in large part what it's all about. Even the Mobius 2 and the Mobius Maxi are missing a certain "something" that's integral to the M1.

 

[TonyM]

why does it have to be Mobius to release it? Given the products they've put out post M1 I'm not sure they're the best choice for a lot of people. the GitUp F1 is already close and wouldn't need a lot to fill the void

Agreed, it does not have to be Mobius. I was thinking about 4k in a Mobius-size camera.

I really like the F1 and hope to see a dashcam-specific version with a capacitor and a fast 130 degree lens.

 

[SawMaster]

If it were as fully developed and as fully functional out of the box as the original, I'd skip meals to buy it. But not if it's anything less.

Mobius had the goose laying golden eggs and they let it die from inattention I no longer trust them to develop their cams in a reasonable time or manner.

Phil

 

[TonyM]

Yes maybe a F1 V2.0, with godlike 4K EIS
Dont really need super low light performance as i would never use it as a dashcam.

I was asking about dashcam use for a reason. I'm wondering whether it's asking too much for a 4k action camera to also be a good dashcam. Is that too much of a compromise?

 

[Dashmellow]

I was asking about dashcam use for a reason. I'm wondering whether it's asking too much for a 4k action camera to also be a good dashcam. Is that too much of a compromise?

I think heat is the big issue for a 4K dash cam in such a small package. The F1 seems to be pointing the way but it's not there yet.

 

[TonyM]

My answer is no.

Personally, I would like to see Mobius perfect 2.7K technology. I would love to see the Maxi developed with the same fanatic dedication to IQ that we saw in the M1 but apparently that is not likely to happen. Especially, it needs to dramatically enhance the fine tuning in the Advanced image controls to bring it up to Mobius 1 standards. As it is now, as only one example, one click higher on the sharpening control ruins the image and that will never do. I fear that a 4K product from Mobius would suffer the same fate, or worse. Quite some time ago, I stated my thinking that the Mobius 1 might have been a lightning-in-a-bottle product, the likes of which we will never see again and nothing has changed my opinion about that after all this time.

I agree with you that the fine tuning options of the M1 are sorely missing from the Maxi.

Like you I'm keeping hold of my Mobius 1 cameras.

 

[TonyM]

I would agree with that.

I was very impressed to see the way Gitup built the F1 however with an integrated sort of "chassis" and the pcb on a massive heat sink (plate), much more along the lines of how CCTV cams are built which is an approach I've be advocating for dash cams for some time now.

I've run the F1 at 100Mbps and even then it doesn't seem to get hot. Not bad for a camera with an internal battery.

 

[Dashmellow]

I agree with you that the fine tuning options of the M1 are sorely missing from the Maxi.

Like you I'm keeping hold of my Mobius 1 cameras.

I've been wondering whether it is a lack of appreciation for how important that level of control can be or whether there is something in the hardware platform that makes such precision and depth of control difficult or perhaps impossible to achieve.
I still remember my dismay the first time I tried increasing the sharpness on the Maxi by one click only to discover it was an utterly useless slider control.

Anyone who's familiar with the sharpness of some of the screen shots of birds at my feeder shot with the 2.8-12mm varifocal or some of my traffic screen shots from the 6-22mm varifocal would understand why the sharpness controls are so important to me. Those lenses are impressive on the Mobius by themselves at the defaults but with the use of all the advanced controls it brings it to another level altogether.

 

[Dashmellow]

I've run the F1 at 100Mbps and even then it doesn't seem to get hot. Not bad for a camera with an internal battery.

That's impressive. Looking at photos of the innards of the camera I am not surprised.

 

[jokiin]

I've been wondering whether it is a lack of appreciation for how important that level of control can be or whether there is something in the hardware platform that makes such precision and depth of control difficult or perhaps impossible to achieve.

I think the bit they might be missing at the moment is the right engineer, they lost a few people a while back, development seems to have stalled since then

 

[TonyM]

I have updated the thread title and first post to suit a broader discussion about small 4K cameras in general, from Mobius, GitUp or anyone else.