Mobius Super Capacitor.

[DashCamMan]

Another 2 items supporting that the Mobius is using the Aptina AR0330:

Tom Frank mentions it is a 3.5MP sensor. The ONLY Aptina sensor that has this resolution is the AR0330.
https://www.aptina.com/products/image_sensors/

and Omnivision does not sell a 3.5MP sensor. At $70, you won't be seeing any high end CMOS sensors (i.e. Sony Exmor).

The Mobius captures photos with a resolution of 2304x1536. This is not a popular resolution but surprisingly, it is the same array size as the AR0330.

Here is a picture of an unlasered NT96650BG, beside a picture of the lasered chip in the Mobius. Notice any similarities.

 

[murcod]

Back to the topic- Super Capacitors!

Thanks for the info Necromancer and Gurkha9. I've contacted eletoponline365.

(Gurkha9, I've bought off Joovuu in the past and have been very happy with the service. Postage costs- and time wise- HK works out better for me.)

 

[Gurkha9]

(Gurkha9, I've bought off Joovuu in the past and have been very happy with the service. Postage costs- and time wise- HK works out better for me.)

Oops...sorry thought you were in the UK for some reason. HK would be much better in your situation for sure.
On another note look what just arrived today with some other 808#16 battery replacements. 🙂
Nice of eletoponline365 to include a bag of those tiny screws (without asking) for the 808's, just in case.

 

[Isoprop]

So if I use a supercap will that change the minimum voltage requirement for the Mobius? I thought it was said that it should be 1amp solely because the battery would keep micro charging and discharging.

The current requirement will be similar. Remember that the supercap can store a lot more energy than a battery but it can only store the voltage needed to record for a second or two. If the voltage drops because of inadequate current the charger IC will kick in and that is something that should be avoided. The charger can't determine if a battery or a supercap is connected so it will treat the supercap as a battery. The supercap won't overheat like the battery but you may experience other issues like the camera unexpectedly turns off. Whether you use a battery or a supercap, a 1A supply is recommended whenever you record with external power.

 

[VIIVIIIXIII]

So...when using the super capacitor, a 1amp adapter is preferred over the 2.1amp adapter? I was under the assumption that the 2.1amp would still only supply the needed 1amp to power the mobius. Should be the same, no?

 

[murcod]

I'm a bit dubious about the "real world" difference with the capacitor reducing electrical loads compared to the internal battery?

If the Mobius starts off with a full internal battery - and is always used in a vehicle with external auto power on/ off enabled- then the electrical load would have to be almost identical. The capacitor is still going to need to be "recharged", like the battery, from the RTC drain. I'm sure there would be more charging losses with a battery fitted, but how much difference in reality?

The real "advantage" seems to be the much talked about death of LiPo batteries in hot climates?

But, perhaps there's more to it than I've thought about???

BTW we've just had 5 days in a row over 40 degrees C (highest days were 44C) with overnight minimums above 30C! Thank goodness the cool change has arrived. I think the Mobius has survived, but I need to check the wife's car. 😉

 

[Isoprop]

I'm a bit dubious about the "real world" difference with the capacitor reducing electrical loads compared to the internal battery?

If the Mobius starts off with a full internal battery - and is always used in a vehicle with external auto power on/ off enabled- then the electrical load would have to be almost identical. The capacitor is still going to need to be "recharged", like the battery, from the RTC drain. I'm sure there would be more charging losses with a battery fitted, but how much difference in reality?

The real "advantage" seems to be the much talked about death of LiPo batteries in hot climates?

But, perhaps there's more to it than I've thought about???

BTW we've just had 5 days in a row over 40 degrees C (highest days were 44C) with overnight minimums above 30C! Thank goodness the cool change has arrived. I think the Mobius has survived, but I need to check the wife's car. 😉

You're right, the "real world" differences between charging a battery and charging a capacitor are minimal. The BIG advantage is that the capacitor doesn't get as hot as the battery while charging and won't deteriorate as soon as the battery. More importantly, a supercap will withstand a lot more heat than a LiPo battery.

 

[GJHS]

So Im now using my Super Cap in my Mobius and 8"lens extension cable. Mobius body tucked away and the lens attached at the base of the stem of the rear view mirror. You cant see it at all, great, but still tinkering as Im only using electrical tape at moment to secure it and the very rare and never mentioned at all 3M Dual Lock tape. But please enjoy my artists impression of a 5 year old drawing the set-up.

The main teething problem is that the Mobius always starts when I turn the key to the acc position (technical term for lights and stereo work but before engine is started which is a further turn), but once out of every four or five times it actually turns off when I start the engine. The only variable to my old set up that always started is the super cap. If I unplug the USB and put it in again with the engine on it works and is fine the next time. Using a 3.1 amp USB adapter for the lighter socket being shared between Mobius and rear cam, so plenty of power.

I only mention as there are some folk that dont check these things and leave their cams for weeks on end without once thinking to review the footage. You know who you are. lol

If you are using a super cap, please see if you are experiencing anything similar? Im using the two tiny ones recommended by the manufacturer.

View attachment 3526

Very nice, pics please when you finalize it. I wanted to do the same, with the exception of putting the lens inside the rear view mirror cover. Is the picture quality the same with the extension? How difficult was the conversion?
I had the same experience as you. Sometimes when I turn the key to ACC before starting the car then start the car, the camera doesn't start. So far it has happened twice.

 

[Gurkha9]

I know what you're saying Jim, I hope it's not going to be a widespread issue with the Cap as I have mine but have not installed it yet.

 

[John Smith]

So Im now using my Super Cap in my Mobius and 8"lens extension cable. Mobius body tucked away and the lens attached at the base of the stem of the rear view mirror. You cant see it at all, great, but still tinkering as Im only using electrical tape at moment to secure it and the very rare and never mentioned at all 3M Dual Lock tape. But please enjoy my artists impression of a 5 year old drawing the set-up.

The main teething problem is that the Mobius always starts when I turn the key to the acc position (technical term for lights and stereo work but before engine is started which is a further turn), but once out of every four or five times it actually turns off when I start the engine. The only variable to my old set up that always started is the super cap. If I unplug the USB and put it in again with the engine on it works and is fine the next time. Using a 3.1 amp USB adapter for the lighter socket being shared between Mobius and rear cam, so plenty of power.

I only mention as there are some folk that dont check these things and leave their cams for weeks on end without once thinking to review the footage. You know who you are. lol

If you are using a super cap, please see if you are experiencing anything similar? Im using the two tiny ones recommended by the manufacturer.

View attachment 3526

Hello Jim,

I don't know if something I've experienced is related to the problem you've been having. I drive an old car that doesn't always start immediately i.e. it sometimes take 1-2 seconds of cranking for the engine to start. I also own and use simultaneously three Mobius cameras as dashcams in this car (one facing forward, another facing backwards, and the third one recording me while driving.) I quickly noticed that if I have to crank the engine more than half a second, sometimes one or more of the cams is not working. This happened several times. I believe this is because the power gets interrupted to the cameras at some point during the engine start (between the acc and engine start positions.) When the power gets interrupted, the camera turns off for some reason instead of coming back on after the engine starts.

Solution: I quickly discovered that if I unplug my 12V plug, wait a couple seconds, and then re-plug it while the engine is running, the cameras all start at the same time and stay running (just like in your case.) I have made this easier by using a 12V three-way splitter which has an on/off switch on it. After I start the engine, I then turn the power to the cameras on via the on/off switch. I have had no problems with cameras not starting since then which was several months ago. I hope this helps.

John

P.S. I do not use supercapacitors, only the original batteries. So far they have worked fine in the Texas heat.

 

[GJHS]

No I'm stilling running the battery. I like the portable use it elsewhere idea. I want to take this thing around and see what it can do 😎

 

[Necromancer]

yeah i've experienced the same thing with original/battery Mobius. sometimes when i start the car, the mobius looses power when turning the key between the accessories and start positions and doesn't start. need to manually take it out and plug it in again.
hope the manufacturer can come up with a solution. the problem is not that it turns off when it looses power (otherwise a mobius with super caps could discharge), its that it won't start again. i can only guess its because the power is resumed during the shutdown process conflicting with the fact it also has to power up.
maybe add a check at the end of the power down process for "power up if external power is supplied" (or something) in case the power was resumed during the shut down process.

 

[GJHS]

On

In fairness I always used to only connected my Mobius once I have started the car. I did this as I know there can be power surges and as you mention also drops. But for the folk that want a plug in and forget, then its not that straightforward.

But anyone who blindly expects a cam to work without checking it once in a while hasnt had that many cams fail on them during a journey as I have.

When I first got it I put it in my car completely behind the rear view, I couldn't see it. Trying to peek while driving wasn't easy. Now it's in my wife's car and is mounted a little below to see the blinking light.
That has saved me once when it didn't start. I like to check it.

 

[Isoprop]

In fairness I always used to only connected my Mobius once I have started the car. I did this as I know there can be power surges and as you mention also drops. But for the folk that want a plug in and forget, then its not that straightforward.

But anyone who blindly expects a cam to work without checking it once in a while hasnt had that many cams fail on them during a journey as I have.

I think you're expecting too much from the supercap.
I don't know your setup, but with the internal battery I would expect that if you set the Power-off-Disconnect to 10 seconds the camera should always start when turning the ignition key.
The supercap is obviously not capable of storing enough energy for so long, so when you first turn the ignition key the camera will start and the capacitor will begin to charge. But then, when you turn the ignition key to start the engine, power is lost and the camera will run off the supercap. Depending on the supercap's charge, this backup power may be a second or two or there may be no charge left at all. You may get better results if you leave the key in the first position for a few seconds so the capacitor has a chance to charge and then turn to start. Definitely worth testing, I would say.

 

[niko]

I think you're expecting too much from the supercap.
I don't know your setup, but with the internal battery I would expect that if you set the Power-off-Disconnect to 10 seconds the camera should always start when turning the ignition key.
The supercap is obviously not capable of storing enough energy for so long, so when you first turn the ignition key the camera will start and the capacitor will begin to charge. But then, when you turn the ignition key to start the engine, power is lost and the camera will run off the supercap. Depending on the supercap's charge, this backup power may be a second or two or there may be no charge left at all. You may get better results if you leave the key in the first position for a few seconds so the capacitor has a chance to charge and then turn to start. Definitely worth testing, I would say.

you absolutely correct.
Similar way Panorama II behaves: first need to give some time to charge capacitors and only then it allows to turn on camera recording, but it happends even if just to start an engine, without pause-stop on ACC.
I would just add, that Panorama II ( as many other capacitor based dash cams ) have cold-start and hot-start. If left to switched off for shorter time, then it turns on and starts recording instantly, but if it's cold-start, then when I start an engine, dash-cam turns on, but first 2-3 sec charges supercap and only then proceeds to full power-on and recording mode.
I guess it's should be the same principle with Mobius.

 

[niko]

The main teething problem is that the Mobius always starts when I turn the key to the acc position (technical term for lights and stereo work but before engine is started which is a further turn), but once out of every four or five times it actually turns off when I start the engine.
View attachment 3526

I dont know if its the rule with all capacitor-based dashcams, but I can give you parallel example with Panorama II which has much higher capacity supercaps:
If I turn on ignition, then ( if it's hot-start ) Pano2 starts recording, ... so it records all the time, because it's getting a power from ACC, but as soon as I turn key further ( starting an engine ), - then Pano2 switches of for 1sec and at the same time instantly switches back on and starts recording. It's all happens within 2-3 sec. No matter if it is hot or cold start, but it always like that. The only time when there is no lag on power-on-rec is when I turn start car engine without stopping on ACC. I can do this on summer days or when engine is warm. However now it's winter time outside and having diesel car I need to pre-warm few sec befor starting a car as you know 😉. So I am always experiencing this lag described above.
I assume its the same with mobius, no matter how firmware is tuned. If you leave ignition on ACC for some time, then trying to start an engine, - there is a short electrical circuit brake in the loom, - Mobius feels that and switches off., then restarts again. I might be wrong, but those are my conclusions based on Pano2 experience.
I still yet to test Mobius on supercaps if/ when get time, then can share more accurate info, so sorry for speculation if they are not correct 😉

 

[jokiin]

Thanks Niko, yes but it doesnt switch on again after ignotion, but as I mentioned I have recreated (as have others) the same result without the super cap and by using the battery. So my original assumption of it being due to the super cap was in fact not true. 😳
.

this problem with the camera stopping if power is applied and then stopped and applied again used to be quite common with dashcams (we had the same issue about 18 months ago), most have resolved it already, it's a firmware thing, they should be able to resolve it but will probably just need a bit of time with it

 

[niko]

The only reason I posted my thoughts is for the install and forget users, that would be missing footage if they checked the recording. 😛
.......................

As long as people remember to have the mobius stop recording straight away in the settings and give it a good charge before they start using it, then im pretty happy so far.

.

I see your point. Good one !

 

[John Smith]

...
I don't know your setup, but with the internal battery I would expect that if you set the Power-off-Disconnect to 10 seconds the camera should always start when turning the ignition key.
...

For what it is worth, I do have an internal battery and have the Power-off-Disconnect set to 10 seconds on all my Mobius. Still experienced same problem with one or more cameras not powering on after engine starts.

 

[GJHS]

@Isoprop any word on what's causing this? I have the standard battery and again yesterday, 10 mins into my journey, I looked up to see the a Mobius off. It has happened twice this week