Mobius Telephoto Dashcam

[Deleted member 37895]

Pixel binning is not downsampling.

Downsampling is done via software with already existing digital images and is a method for disposing of pixel information

Pixel binning is a hardware term having to do with the concept of combining the electrical charges of neighboring pixels on the sensor and this technique increases S/N ratios.

That would require combining 4 adjacent pixels into each final pixel which isn't what the Mobius does. Just because a Chinese translator uses a term doesn't mean it's accurate

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3922435

 

[Dashmellow]

That would require combining 4 adjacent pixels into each final pixel which isn't what the Mobius does. Just because a Chinese translator uses a term doesn't mean it's accurate

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3922435

Chinese translator? Where do you come up with this stuff?

Here is the explanation of what pixel binning does directly from the Mobius Instruction Manual which is hardly a "Chinese translation".



And the number of pixels required for binning is a function of the particular sensor and depends on the method of how it is read. 2x2 binning is common and is used in the following link that explains this.

https://www.photometrics.com/resources/learningzone/binning.php

You also may benefit from a more careful reading the link you posted.

• "Binning is the combining of photosite sensor values as they're read from the sensor and then sent to the demosaicing process."
• "Skipping is literally skipping over some sensor values."
• "Oversampling is reading more pixels than the final output format supports, and uses Downsampling, or scaling, to combine values, which is done after demosaicing."

The bottom line is that the Mobius employs pixel binning NOT downsampling.

 

[Deleted member 37895]

Chinese translator? Where do you come up with this stuff?

Here is the explanation of what pixel binning does directly from the Mobius Instruction Manual which is hardly a "Chinese translation".

View attachment 37120

And the number of pixels required for binning is a function of the particular sensor and depends on the method of how it is read. 2x2 binning is common and is used in the following link that explains this.

https://www.photometrics.com/resources/learningzone/binning.php

You also may benefit from a more careful reading the link you posted.

• "Binning is the combining of photosite sensor values as they're read from the sensor and then sent to the demosaicing process."
• "Skipping is literally skipping over some sensor values."
• "Oversampling is reading more pixels than the final output format supports, and uses Downsampling, or scaling, to combine values, which is done after demosaicing."

The bottom line is that the Mobius employs pixel binning NOT downsampling.

A sensor is a grid of red, green, and blue pixels. There are twice as many green pixels as red and blue. If you just generate an RGB image of the same resolution then each pixel is generated using color data from the 8 adjacent pixels all around it. Pixel binning refers to combining groups of 4 pixels into 1 and generating half the resolution (or groups of 9 or whatever). What you're talking about isn't called pixel binning, it's just standard demosaicing with a lower output resolution which requires some more complex geometric math

 

[Dashmellow]

A sensor is a grid of red, green, and blue pixels. There are twice as many green pixels as red and blue. If you just generate an RGB image of the same resolution then each pixel is generated using color data from the 8 adjacent pixels all around it. Pixel binning refers to combining groups of 4 pixels into 1 and generating half the resolution (or groups of 9 or whatever). What you're talking about isn't called pixel binning, it's just standard demosaicing with a lower output resolution which requires some more complex geometric math

Well, that's not quite how it works (or "whatever" ) but what does all this have to do with your original claim that the Mobius is "downsampling" which is the point I took issue with?

 

[Deleted member 37895]

Well, that's not quite how it works (or "whatever" ) but what does all this have to do with your original claim that the Mobius is "downsampling" which is the point I took issue with?

Do you know what demosaicing is? In order to understand what I'm saying you have to know that.

 

[Deleted member 37895]

http://www.dei.unipd.it/~emg/PAPERS/emgVISAPP07-Long-8pp.pdf

 

[Dashmellow]

Demosaicing is not downsampling.

 

[Deleted member 37895]

Demosaicing is not downsampling.

Demosaicing is not pixel binning.

Now that we've established that the Chinese translator used the wrong word, we can discuss what is actually going on. I don't think the Mobius is using a complex algorithm to demosaic more than 8 pixels into each resulting pixel. I think it's more likely it's using a standard algorithm and then downsampling the result. If it really is demosaicing from the whole sensor that's still downsampling. It's generating a smaller pixel grid than the sensor's

 

[Dashmellow]

Demosaicing is not pixel binning.

Now that we've established that the Chinese translator used the wrong word, we can discuss what is actually going on. I don't think the Mobius is using a complex algorithm to demosaic more than 8 pixels into each resulting pixel. I think it's more likely it's using a standard algorithm and then downsampling the result. If it really is demosaicing from the whole sensor that's still downsampling. It's generating a smaller pixel grid than the sensor's

What Chinese translator?

 

[Deleted member 37895]

What Chinese translator?

The person who wrote the English descriptions for mSetup

 

[Dashmellow]

The person who wrote the English descriptions for mSetup

That would be native English speaker @Isoprop, the author of mSetup.

 

[Deleted member 37895]

That would be native English speaker @Isoprop, the author of mSetup.

He should tell us how the algorithm works

 

[TexMex]

Nice job @TonyM. You and @Dashmellow certainly post some great shots!

 

[Lola]

Tony do you have a link to where you bought that cheese plate, you are getting a ton of use from it, I really like it, has it worked out to be the plate of your choice or is there another one you like better?
Nice pictures you and dashmellow are getting, keep them coming .

 

[Dashmellow]

Tony do you have a link to where you bought that cheese plate, you are getting a ton of use from it, I really like it, has it worked out to be the plate of your choice or is there another one you like better?
Nice pictures you and dashmellow are getting, keep them coming .

Those plates are from SmallRig. They offer some very unique and useful products.

https://www.smallrig.com/

https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-mounting-cheese-plate-1598.html

https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-bridge-plate-for-rrs-b2-lr-ii-1568.html

 

[Rocketvapor]

Tony,
Looks like the 25mm focal length is a good match with the Mobius sensor for your birding shots.
The f/2.4 gives you just enough DOF.
Nice pics, and nice timing on the 'angel' shot.

 

[TonyM]

Those plates are from SmallRig. They offer some very unique and useful products.

https://www.smallrig.com/

https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-mounting-cheese-plate-1598.html

https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-bridge-plate-for-rrs-b2-lr-ii-1568.html

I'm using this mounting plate from SmallRig, which is wide enough for three Mobius cameras. Its central hole is 1/4" which matches my screen mount. The 1598 plate is smaller and good for two Mobius cameras (I think @Harsh has one?) but it's central hole is 3/8". If I stop testing Mobius cameras one day, I'll probably change to the 1598 for a front facing Maxi and an M1 with the 6-22mm varifocal.
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-new-multi-function-mounting-plate-904.html

 

[Lola]

I'm using this mounting plate from SmallRig, which is wide enough for three Mobius cameras. Its central hole is 1/4" which matches my screen mount. The 1598 plate is smaller and good for two Mobius cameras (I think @Harsh has one?) but it's central hole is 3/8". If I stop testing Mobius cameras one day, I'll probably change to the 1598 for a front facing Maxi and an M1 with the 6-22mm varifocal.
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-new-multi-function-mounting-plate-904.html

Tony on the model 1598 they might/probably make a sleeve bushing to go from 3/8" to 1/4" for your screen mount, which would help me also. I won't need more then 2 cameras, Mobius 1 & possibly a Maxi. I'll wait on the 1598 model to see what @Harsh has to say about fitting those two cameras on his 1598 model.
Thanks for the reply, I will check on getting a sleeve.

This is a picture of one https://www.ebay.com/bhp/3-8-1-4-reducer . The 4th one down, just be sure the threads are correct.

 

[Harsh]

Centre screw adapter is 1/4".



Only disadvantage is the width, the 1598 isn't wide enough to screw-in both cradles by rotating them. Need to remove the 1/4" threaded adapter from the second camera's cradle to screw it in and then click the cradle into the adapter.

Not an issue if you use adhesive pads like Tony does.

Once I have it set up to go in the car, will post a pic with the Mobius and Maxi mounted.

 

[TonyM]

Centre screw adapter is 1/4".

View attachment 39141

Only disadvantage is the width, the 1598 isn't wide enough to screw-in both cradles by rotating them. Need to remove the 1/4" threaded adapter from the second camera's cradle to screw it in and then click the cradle into the adapter.

Not an issue if you use adhesive pads like Tony does.

Once I have it set up to go in the car, will post a pic with the Mobius and Maxi mounted.

Not wanting to be picky, but you have the 1568 with rounded ends. The 1598 rectangular plate has a 3/8" centre hole. On that basis I think your 1568 is a bit better. I have a couple of spare 1/4" to 3/8" adapters, but I'd rather not use them if I can avoid it.

How do you get on with tightening the plates in the correct orientation? I found that I wanted clearance holes rather than threaded holes when connecting a Mobius or GitUp F1 cradle to the mount plate. When the cradle was tight to the plate, it wasn't always pointing in the correct direction.