Powerbank Battery for a Dashcam

[Dashmellow]

I reckon this is the reason I haven't dug deeper into the power bank. I do remember the Mobius USB's have to be one way or the other depending on what you want to use it for. Perhaps you can enlighten me a bit more. Let's say I didn't get a smart power bank, I'd need a 5 ft USB cable, but know the pins have to be a certain way. How would I obtain or jimmy rig one to work?

Everything I've said below the asterisk line is all about getting a Mobius to work with a power bank. If all you want to do is run the Mobius off a cigarette lighter adapter in a car or a home USB adapter all you need is a 5-pin USB-A t0 mini-B cable in the length you desire. Monoprice sells very nice quality shielded cables dirt cheap and any cable on this list will work.

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It is getting harder and harder to find a power bank that is not "smart" as most of them these days are used to manage charging of smartphones and tablets. The problem is that "smart" power banks can be too smart for their own damn good when it comes to running a dash cam without having the camera think it is connected to a computer.

Since the Mobius uses a 5-pin USB-A to mini-B plug cable, often the best thing to do is to simply cut the appropriate cable wires as mentioned above. From my experience this can sometimes be more challenging than it seems as the woven shielding and other wiring in the cable can trick the camera into still believing that it has a data connection. My solution has been to cut the cable completely in two, clip and trim away everything but the red and black wires and solder those two wires back together. I use very narrow heat shrink tubing over each of the black and red wires after carefully soldering them back together and then larger heat shrink tubing over both of those to complete the repair of the cable.

You can get a 6 foot USB 5-pin USB-A to mini-B for only 89 cents. For slightly more you can get cables with a ferrite bead or in heavier AWG sizes for longer runs. I use the 10 foot and 15 foot versions in my vehicle.

You can also buy 4 pin USB cables from Monoprice but I don't know whether they will work on the Mobius using a power bank without modification. For the modest investment involved it could be worth a try.

I've been using power banks with my dash cams daily for almost two years now and I love the capability and functionality.

 

[aprilia]

What powerbank do you offer for a118-c ?
What should i look about working voltage and amp?

 

[Dashmellow]

What powerbank do you offer for a118-c ?
What should i look about working voltage and amp?

Your A118-C should work fine with most any power bank but some "smart" power banks can "trick" your camera into thinking it is connected to a computer and it will go into "mass storage mode", so you need to make sure you purchase one that is compatible.

All USB power banks output 5 volts DC which is what your camera requires. The higher the output in milli-amp hours (mAh), the longer the camera will operate from a full charged battery bank. Many people find that 10,000 mAh to 20,000 mAh battery banks offer them the most optimal run times for their cameras.

 

[chris-s]

It must be added that the PowerBank should allow to be charged during camera use.
I have ordered this one for test : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/311357551134
(still not received)

 

[Dashmellow]

It must be added that the PowerBank should allow to be charged during camera use.
I have ordered this one for test : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/311357551134
(still not received)

The question of "pass through charging" seems to come up over and over again here on DCT but the practice of charging a battery bank at the same time it is discharging is a bad idea as it will shorten the life of the cells, eventually damage the power bank and can be a safety issue. This discussion often leads to all kinds of vehement arguments on these forums but the answer is still the same. Don't do it.

The reason lithium-ion battery banks should not be charged while power is simultaneously being drawn from them is because it violates the electro-chemisty of how batteries function.

In a lithium-ion rechargeable battery as used in these types of power banks both the positive electrode (cathode) and the negative electrode (anode) bind lithium ions from lithium oxide in the electrolyte that migrate back and forth between the cathode and anode during the charging and discharging process. When the battery is discharging, the lithium ions moving back to the cathode release energy (electrons) in the process and this is how the battery powers your device. When the battery is being charged, the lithium ions migrate back through the electrolyte in the other direction towards the anode.

So, if you charge the battery while it is simultaneously discharging, then you are trying to force the lithium ions to move in opposite directions through the electrolyte at the same time which will cause a lot of stress to the cells and this will eventually lead to lithium metal plating which is the dangerous process than can ultimately cause a thermal runaway (chemical combustion), but for the most part will simply shorten the lifespan of the bank's cells and prematurely reduce its charging capacity.

Some manufacturers falsely claim that their products accomodate pass-through-charging knowing that you are unlikely to notice any problems or loss of capacity until long after purchase but this practice should simply not be done.

 

[123]

The question of "pass through charging" seems to come up over and over again here on DCT but the practice of charging a battery bank at the same time it is discharging is a bad idea as it will shorten the life of the cells, eventually damage the power bank and can be a safety issue. This discussion often leads to all kinds of vehement arguments on these forums but the answer is still the same. Don't do it.

The reason lithium-ion battery banks should not be charged while power is simultaneously being drawn from them is because it violates the electro-chemisty of how batteries function.

In a lithium-ion rechargeable battery as used in these types of power banks both the positive electrode (cathode) and the negative electrode (anode) bind lithium ions from lithium oxide in the electrolyte that migrate back and forth between the cathode and anode during the charging and discharging process. When the battery is discharging, the lithium ions moving back to the cathode release energy (electrons) in the process and this is how the battery powers your device. When the battery is being charged, the lithium ions migrate back through the electrolyte in the other direction towards the anode.

So, if you charge the battery while it is simultaneously discharging, then you are trying to force the lithium ions to move in opposite directions through the electrolyte at the same time which will cause a lot of stress to the cells and this will eventually lead to lithium metal plating which is the dangerous process than can ultimately cause a thermal runaway (chemical combustion), but for the most part will simply shorten the lifespan of the bank's cells and prematurely reduce its charging capacity.

Some manufacturers falsely claim that their products accomodate pass-through-charging knowing that you are unlikely to notice any problems or loss of capacity until long after purchase but this practice should simply not be done.

im no expert, but:
a 'plugged-in' and 'in-use' laptop charges and depletes the battery simultaneously... cellphones are capable of doing the same. i would expect and budget to replace a powerbank as often as i replace laptop or cellphone battery, if not more...

i have one mobius that i want to run at least 24 hrs without my intervention, but it has to be independent of the vehicle battery when the vehicle is not running
i can put a slight solar charge on a battery 24/7 bc i park in a lighted garage and already have two 5watt panels and a 7watt panel <all 12v, though i do have a 5v panel i could use too>

with the way i am set up now, i have a 4 outlet 12v splitter. 3 of the panels are plugged into the splitter, so theres one open outlet. i want to put a usb plug into the 4th socket and hook a battery to it, then have the mobius run off the battery. then when i jump in the car i would like to just take the male end of the splitter and put it into the car and let the bank charge. hopefully the mobius keeps on trucking the whole time thru all of this... and of course, i would likely buy two or three batteries and simply switch them out every day or so as needed by taking a depleted or nearly depleted pack into the house for wall charging.

problem i have is finding the right batteries to even try this.... it has been very slow going trying to even get a confirmation of a battery capable of taking a tiny float charge while simulataneously being used... suggesstions on such a battery welcomed

and i think the other weak point is going to be the 12v socket to usb adapter bc i have had trouble with those wasting energy.

 

[Dashmellow]

There is no such thing as a "float charge" for lithium-ion batteries. That is a term used for lead acid automobile batteries. Each battery chemistry requires it's own usage techniques, charging methods and precautions.

Many people use their laptops while they are plugged into the wall but the general industry recommendation is to remove the battery if this is done for extended periods of time. Also, laptop computers have much more sophisticated battery management capabilities than power banks. A topping charge is only applied when the battery voltage drops to a certain level even if the battery feels like it is plugged in and charging all the while you are using it. If you leave a laptop plugged in with the battery in it all the time the battery will become hot and will degrade sooner and it is at risk of swelling or bulging. Although rare, this is how computers go up in flames when their batteries experience thermal runaway. External battery banks are designed differently than laptops and will keep taking a charge as they are being drained down. Not only is this damaging to the battery as explained in my previous post but as the voltage hovers near the threshold cut-off charging point it confuses the charger itself which causes a lot of stress to the circuitry as well as the cells.

As for laptops, here are a few links to peruse.

Keeping Your Laptop Plugged in All the Time Will Kill Its Battery Faster
http://www.wired.com/2013/09/laptop-battery/

Remove Your Laptop's Battery When Plugged In
http://www.tested.com/tech/pcs/458365-reminder-dont-leave-laptops-plugged-all-time/

The bottom line is that no matter how much anyone wants to rationalize that charging lithium-ion batteries while they are being simultaneously discharged is ok, it is an unwise practice.

There are two issues. One is simply the longevity of lithium-ion batteries if improper charging technique is used. The other is safety. It may be one thing to keep a laptop charging on your desk at home but to do that to a battery bank in a vehicle where it is subjected to shock, vibration and heat is asking for trouble.

 

[niko]

Is this idea workable for Li-ion batteries?
Let's say powerbank consist of 4 cells, they are all fully charged. When power bank senses it has to do both functions at the same time ( charging and discharging ) it switches off 2 cells from being discharged and using them only for charging and other remaining 2 cells it uses for discharging. Once charging is "unplugged" ( or cut off ) the powerbank switches all 4 cells for discharging mode usage.
Not sure if I have described my idea well ?

 

[jokiin]

The question of "pass through charging" seems to come up over and over again here on DCT but the practice of charging a battery bank at the same time it is discharging is a bad idea as it will shorten the life of the cells, eventually damage the power bank and can be a safety issue. This discussion often leads to all kinds of vehement arguments on these forums but the answer is still the same. Don't do it.
.

the only way I think this could be done successfully would be to have some intelligence in the circuitry to bypass the battery output while connected to power and only let the battery come back into play once power was disconnected, can't say I've seen this in any power bank as yet, maybe it's how the Cellink B works, not sure

 

[Dashmellow]

Is this idea workable for Li-ion batteries?
Let's say powerbank consist of 4 cells, they are all fully charged. When power bank senses it has to do both functions at the same time ( charging and discharging ) it switches off 2 cells from being discharged and using them only for charging and other remaining 2 cells it uses for discharging. Once charging is "unplugged" ( or cut off ) the powerbank switches all 4 cells for discharging mode usage.
Not sure if I have described my idea well ?

the only way I think this could be done successfully would be to have some intelligence in the circuitry to bypass the battery output while connected to power and only let the battery come back into play once power was disconnected, can't say I've seen this in any power bank as yet, maybe it's how the Cellink B works, not sure

This is sort of what Apple does with the iPhone. They have even admitted that when the phone says it is 100% charged it really isn't, so the battery has room to charge. They feel that showing the battery at less than 100% as part of their charge scheme will just confuse people and piss them off. Anyway, from my understanding, the built in battery management scheme on iPhones and iPads drains the battery slightly (while still showing 100%) and then applies a charge if the devices are being used during charging. I think this is sort of what you are suggesting.

Edit: I forget where I read this but it was a quote from one of Apple's executives. Maybe I can find it.

 

[123]

There is no such thing as a "float charge" for lithium-ion batteries. That is a term used for lead acid automobile batteries. Each battery chemistry requires it's own usage techniques, charging methods and precautions.

Many people use their laptops while they are plugged into the wall but the general industry recommendation is to remove the battery if this is done for extended periods of time. Also, laptop computers have much more sophisticated battery management capabilities than power banks. A topping charge is only applied when the battery voltage drops to a certain level even if the battery feels like it is plugged in and charging all the while you are using it. If you leave a laptop plugged in with the battery in it all the time the battery will become hot and will degrade sooner than a laptop and it is at risk of swelling or bulging. Although rare, this is how computers go up in flames when their batteries experience thermal runaway. External battery banks are designed differently than laptops and will keep taking a charge as they are being drained down. Not only is this damaging to the battery as explained in my previous post but as the voltage hovers near the threshold cut-off charging point it confuses the charger itself which causes a lot of stress to the circuitry as well as the cells.

As for laptops, here are a few links to peruse.

Keeping Your Laptop Plugged in All the Time Will Kill Its Battery Faster
http://www.wired.com/2013/09/laptop-battery/

Remove Your Laptop's Battery When Plugged In
http://www.tested.com/tech/pcs/458365-reminder-dont-leave-laptops-plugged-all-time/

The bottom line is that no matter how much anyone wants to rationalize that charging lithium-ion batteries while they are being simultaneously discharged, it is an unwise practice.

There are two issues. One is simply the longevity of lithium-ion batteries if improper charging technique is used. The other is safety. It may be one thing to keep a laptop charging on your desk at home but to do that to a battery bank in a vehicle where it is subjected to shock, vibration and heat is asking for trouble.

gotcha. thanks for the response.
does anyone have recommendations then for an isolator and under-the-dash battery that will last roughly 24hrs while running one mobius (i believe it pulls roughly 1Ah). the cheaper the better in my book. i suppose i would just let the solar panels sit unsused in this case.

i suppose i could also try to find deals on battery banks with high capacities and swap them every couple days, basically just removing the small amount of solar charging from my previous plans. i have a bunch of 18650s laying around but i would halfway need something designed for me to pop in 24Ah worth of 18650s and let it rip in terms of just plugging it into the wall to charge. i doubt that exists, but ive been wrong plenty of times before.

the only other hair-brained idea i have had involved those APC backups for computers, i am not familiar with those at all. but i have seen some that stated they were designed to work without being plugged into a wall...

motorcycle battery seems to be the answer though. my only other hangup is that my vehicles starting battery is in the trunk, the trunk is nearly full, and the dash cam will be on the dash.

 

[niko]

gotcha. thanks for the response.
does anyone have recommendations then for an isolator and under-the-dash battery that will last roughly 24hrs while running one mobius (i believe it pulls roughly 1Ah). the cheaper the better in my book. i suppose i would just let the solar panels sit unsused in this case.

i suppose i could also try to find deals on battery banks with high capacities and swap them every couple days, basically just removing the small amount of solar charging from my previous plans. i have a bunch of 18650s laying around but i would halfway need something designed for me to pop in 24Ah worth of 18650s and let it rip in terms of just plugging it into the wall to charge. i doubt that exists, but ive been wrong plenty of times before.

the only other hair-brained idea i have had involved those APC backups for computers, i am not familiar with those at all. but i have seen some that stated they were designed to work without being plugged into a wall...

motorcycle battery seems to be the answer though. my only other hangup is that my vehicles starting battery is in the trunk, the trunk is nearly full, and the dash cam will be on the dash.

the problem with solar panels will be the same as described above: can not charge / discharge at the same time.
Best if you get 2nd car battery and connect to main car battery via solenoid. But here comes another dilemma, - you have do drive your car long enough to charge lost 24Ah you used for dashcam.
One idea is you will get 2pcs ca. 30Ah portable rechargeable power banks, one use in car while it is parked, other one charging in your house at the same time, then just do cycle-swap every day.

 

[Dashmellow]

I found the quotes and explanation about Apples's approach to charging which allows their devices to be safely plugged in and why it shows 100% charged when it isn't.


From AllThingsD:

"So here’s how things work: Apple does, in fact, display the iPad (and iPhone and iPod Touch) as 100 percent charged just before a device reaches a completely charged state. At that point, it will continue charging to 100 percent, then discharge a bit and charge back up to 100 percent, repeating that process until the device is unplugged."

"Doing so allows devices to maintain an optimum charge", Apple VP Michael Tchao told AllThingsD today."

“That circuitry is designed so you can keep your device plugged in as long as you would like,” Tchao said. “It’s a great feature that’s always been in iOS.”

"The decision not to keep changing the battery status was designed so as not to distract or confuse users."


http://allthingsd.com/20120327/apple-ipad-battery-nothing-to-get-charged-up-about/

 

[jokiin]

that's the way to do it, I'm guessing the average $10 powerbank is never going to do this though

 

[Dashmellow]

gotcha. thanks for the response.
does anyone have recommendations then for an isolator and under-the-dash battery that will last roughly 24hrs while running one mobius (i believe it pulls roughly 1Ah). the cheaper the better in my book. i suppose i would just let the solar panels sit unsused in this case.

i suppose i could also try to find deals on battery banks with high capacities and swap them every couple days, basically just removing the small amount of solar charging from my previous plans. i have a bunch of 18650s laying around but i would halfway need something designed for me to pop in 24Ah worth of 18650s and let it rip in terms of just plugging it into the wall to charge. i doubt that exists, but ive been wrong plenty of times before.

the only other hair-brained idea i have had involved those APC backups for computers, i am not familiar with those at all. but i have seen some that stated they were designed to work without being plugged into a wall...

motorcycle battery seems to be the answer though. my only other hangup is that my vehicles starting battery is in the trunk, the trunk is nearly full, and the dash cam will be on the dash.

One idea for running a Mobius for 24 hours on a battery might be to use a huge powerful powerbank.

I came across one on Amazon recently that I find very intriguing. the MAXOAK 50000mAh 185wh 6 Port(5/12/20v) Portable Charger External Battery Power Bank. It is a true, high quality 50,000 mAh battery bank with 6 ports, one 20V/3A, one 12V/2.5A, two 5V/2.1A and two 5V/1A!

The thing weighs in at 2.7 pounds and is 8.1" x 5.3" x 1.3" inches. The price is $135.99 which is not cheap but seems quite reasonable for what you get. It "appears" to be a quality offering from a company that stands behind their products and I'm actually considering the purchase of one of these myself as I currently use two powerbanks to run four dash cams in my vehicle. This could also be a solution for someone who wants to run something like a 12V SGZC12SG or Panorama in parking mode without using their car battery.

 

[123]

yeah that big bank is getting into my wheelhouse. i suppose i am going to just swap/charge banks every day or so.
the portability factor of the bank over a spare battery is quite enticing

 

[albertson]

Dashmellow, Let us know of your review when you get a chance to test this Maxoak K2. After reading some reviews and the connected comment string on Amazon, it is interesting, and may have improvements in the BMC, like you note above.

 

[Dashmellow]

Dashmellow, Let us know of your review when you get a chance to test this Maxoak K2. After reading some reviews and the connected comment string on Amazon, it is interesting, and may have improvements in the BMC, like you note above.

Well, I'm still in the "considering" stage about purchasing one of these but rest assured that I will post all about my experience with it should I buy one.

 

[Padwanjoe]

Hi world. I am also tempted to buy power bank to keep my both front and rear cams for 9-10 hours in a row. I want to be able to connect the cigarrette power cable to the power bank's mini USB port. Do you know if there is available such connection device and from where I can buy it? I do appologise if this was previously disccussed here but I have a hard time searching for it on the phone. Thanks!

 

[Dashmellow]

Hi world. I am also tempted to buy power bank to keep my both front and rear cams for 9-10 hours in a row. I want to be able to connect the cigarrette power cable to the power bank's mini USB port. Do you know if there is available such connection device and from where I can buy it? I do appologise if this was previously disccussed here but I have a hard time searching for it on the phone. Thanks!

All you need is a USB-A to mini B cable and a USB cigarette light power adapter.