The list of shame fake 4K cameras and CMOS size

Are these cameras generally easy to take apart to view the chips used?
i've not taken one of those apart, but the GitUp Git1 and Git2 come apart fairly easily, but it's hard to see down in between the layers to verify the chipset. packaging is pretty tight since space is at a premium in these little cameras.
 
I have one on it's way and I might take it a part to see which chipset it's using.
You will see the chipset, but the image sensor is almost impossible to determine.
If it's fake, I'll complain to the manufacturer since they put their "brand" on it and the 4k24 on the front.
If it has Novatek 96660 it will use horizontal interpolation and it "converts" 2880x2160 into 3840x2160.
Are these cameras generally easy to take apart to view the chips used?
Depends on the producers, you may need to take extra care, as some will use soldered wires between the PCB and switches and lot's of hot glue and when you open the case some wires may brake.
 
Depends on the producers, you may need to take extra care, as some will use soldered wires between the PCB and switches and lot's of hot glue and when you open the case some wires may brake.
Yes, I suspect this may be one that is better not taken apart, I very much doubt that it is as well constructed as a Gitup.

Even if you do get to see the processor, it is perfectly possible that they have printed the part number on the processor themselves, or that their supplier is printing the fake part number, and so you will still have no idea if it is real or fake.

What really matters is the video and photo quality, if it outperforms a GoPro Hero Black in video quality and outperforms a GitUp Git2 for photo quality and gyro stabilisation then who cares if it has a fake processor and fake sensor? Apart from Sony! You can see the image quality without taking it apart.
 
What really matters is the video and photo quality, if it outperforms a GoPro Hero Black in video quality and outperforms a GitUp Git2 for photo quality and gyro stabilisation then who cares if it has a fake processor and fake sensor?

I like this statement!

Once I receive the cam, I'll inspect the embedded video data and stats and report it back here.

Sent using Tapatalk.
 
On the bad side, the website is filled with spelling mistakes like "camerar" and "COMS" sensor which is less than encouraging.
Yes, you are right, also I am losing interest when I see poor presentation page. The first idea which is coming to my mind is that they don't give attention to details and after sales support is zero, maybe some conversation in chinglish with a chinese guy which is trying to make me that he is not understanding my problem.

enjoy,
Mtz
 
Came across this post - and decided to join this forum!

Currently looking for a replacement to my GoPro Hero 3 which had problems and was sent back to GoPro but because of warranty issues they only offered me a 20% discount code instead of a good discount. So now I have no camera but a ton of GoPro accessories.

That said, I am looking at:
1. This one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/B01C3NMLY4 - First listed on Amazon in Feb, 2016.
2. or this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/B01DDARVAK - First listed on Amazon in Mar, 2016.

Ignored the Ablegrid and Eken H9 because of this thread - so thanks Mtz and everyone!

Any good ideas is much appreciated.
 
I think in the current market you can pretty much guarantee that if it has 4K printed on the front it's a warning sign and it's nothing like 4K, a bit more money but you'd be better off with the GitUp Git2, will work with a lot of your accessories you have and has a lot of ongoing development
 
agreed - even cases for the gopro will fit the git2. you'll just need to move the foam on the inside of the back door so it doesn't cover the screen (if you use the screen).
 
I'm curious about the Novatek NT96660. It has been noted in this thread that it doesn't support 4K video. Personally I haven't been able to find any data sheet on the NT96660. Lacking formal documentation how can one know for sure what the specifications are? Can anyone provide a link to an official Novatek data sheet (without violating copyright)? I'm interested because so many of you have excellent knowledge of the components that go into action cams but I don't - and I want to! How do you find out these details?
 
I'm interested because so many of you have excellent knowledge of the components that go into action cams but I don't - and I want to! How do you find out these details?

@jokiin @Pier28 @niko etc all work within the camera field...it's our job to know. We talk to factories, developers, engineers, SoC providers etc so we know a lot simply from 'networking'... @Mtz knowledge seems to come from extensive reading and following the area. Ambarella post a lot of their information online as do HiSilicon, Novatek used to but I'm not sure they do any more, so the best thing to do is to read up on what you can.

The thing after that just comes from testing, reading, and analysing. A true 4k camera is not going to cost 60usd just yet. The lens and SoC are to highly priced so that should be a massive red flag. Second of all the 96660 has been out for about 2 years or so (in cameras) so realistically that isn't going to have 4k...

I guess there's no place you can just 'go' and read up on this, it comes from reading forums (not just DCT and RCG), documentation, and talking to factories etc.

One thing I would say, a lot of these companies don't like to 'broadcast' their announcements (for obvious reasons) but almost all of these companies are publicly traded, and as dictated by law they have to release certain information in annual and quarterly briefings (anything that could affect profit)...as such read annual reports etc as you might just get a mention of something important, I know that's where I've picked up some important information in the past.

Hope that helps.
 
@jokiin @Pier28 @niko etc all work within the camera field...it's our job to know. We talk to factories, developers, engineers, SoC providers etc so we know a lot simply from 'networking'... @Mtz knowledge seems to come from extensive reading and following the area. Ambarella post a lot of their information online as do HiSilicon, Novatek used to but I'm not sure they do any more, so the best thing to do is to read up on what you can.

The thing after that just comes from testing, reading, and analysing. A true 4k camera is not going to cost 60usd just yet. The lens and SoC are to highly priced so that should be a massive red flag. Second of all the 96660 has been out for about 2 years or so (in cameras) so realistically that isn't going to have 4k...

I guess there's no place you can just 'go' and read up on this, it comes from reading forums (not just DCT and RCG), documentation, and talking to factories etc.

One thing I would say, a lot of these companies don't like to 'broadcast' their announcements (for obvious reasons) but almost all of these companies are publicly traded, and as dictated by law they have to release certain information in annual and quarterly briefings (anything that could affect profit)...as such read annual reports etc as you might just get a mention of something important, I know that's where I've picked up some important information in the past.

Hope that helps.
Some manufacturers like Sony and Omnivision do in fact provide data sheets. I've seen some Novatek data sheets but just not the NT96660. I've read some of Novatek's financial reports but couldn't discern anything technical from them. I've been reading these forums and much else but I'm still amazed that some members here (like the ones you mentioned) have such broad and deep knowledge of products. No doubt it comes from working in the industry as you said. I always book mark sites that have useful information but the thing is, how do I know that THEY know what they're talking about? The folks here obviously do but out there, who knows.

Anyway thanks Joo-Vuu. You have indeed been helpful. Cheers :)
 
. I always book mark sites that have useful information but the thing is, how do I know that THEY know what they're talking about? The folks here obviously do but out there, who knows.

Anyway thanks Joo-Vuu. You have indeed been helpful. Cheers :)

That just really comes down to trust and reputation. With the mentioned users, they're trustworthy and reputable, they have a reputation for being the above. Whilst I'm not saying just take their word, almost everything they mention is correct, in fact for Jokiin I can't recall anything he has mentioned that isn't true.

For manufacturers, ALWAYS double check. I have Emma in Shenzhen and WHENEVER we talk to a manufacturer we request full specifications as it means we can use our contacts and knowledge to discern whether or not the cameras 'advertised features' are actually achievable.

A simple way to find out information is to simply ask the manufacturer, then go to another manufacturer and ask them...ask for information and compare, then as your knowledge grows you know who to trust and who not to. Trust me when I say, a LOT of people have no idea what they are talking about, and once you start picking up on the information you quickly spot these people. We also do have a headstart as we all read a lot of product briefs and talk to manufacturers regulary, plus we make sure we keep up with the latest news...if not we wouldn't be good at our jobs ;)
 
That just really comes down to trust and reputation. With the mentioned users, they're trustworthy and reputable, they have a reputation for being the above. Whilst I'm not saying just take their word, almost everything they mention is correct, in fact for Jokiin I can't recall anything he has mentioned that isn't true.

For manufacturers, ALWAYS double check. I have Emma in Shenzhen and WHENEVER we talk to a manufacturer we request full specifications as it means we can use our contacts and knowledge to discern whether or not the cameras 'advertised features' are actually achievable.

A simple way to find out information is to simply ask the manufacturer, then go to another manufacturer and ask them...ask for information and compare, then as your knowledge grows you know who to trust and who not to. Trust me when I say, a LOT of people have no idea what they are talking about, and once you start picking up on the information you quickly spot these people. We also do have a headstart as we all read a lot of product briefs and talk to manufacturers regulary, plus we make sure we keep up with the latest news...if not we wouldn't be good at our jobs ;)
I've tried contacting manufacturers but I usually come across three problems: 1. They don't offer a general inquiries e-mail and require an order number or a vendor ID for an online contact form. I have neither. 2. They don't respond. Presumably that's their way of saying the information is confidential. 3. I later find out that the information they gave me was wrong - I'm looking at you, SJCam.

In addition to the knowledgeable members here, I put most faith in research by educational institutions, peer-reviewed journals, government research and reports, and articles by industry consortia that have specifications or guidelines that members must comply with. For articles outside those sources, sometimes it's possible to check an author's qualifications to be sure he's not just another nutter. o_O
 
(without violating copyright)?

unfortunately no, cannot

I've tried contacting manufacturers but I usually come across three problems: 1. They don't offer a general inquiries e-mail and require an order number or a vendor ID for an online contact form. I have neither. 2. They don't respond. Presumably that's their way of saying the information is confidential. 3. I later find out that the information they gave me was wrong - I'm looking at you, SJCam.

more than a few manufacturers could more appropriately be called assemblers, a lot have no engineering capability and can't give technical answers as they just don't know the answers
 
Trust me when I say, a LOT of people have no idea what they are talking about
more than a few manufacturers could more appropriately be called assemblers, a lot have no engineering capability and can't give technical answers as they just don't know the answers
And adding that most of them are perfunctory and their english is poor, we can see chinglish words like Vidoe, COMS, Sony Lens. When I see such mistakes on their websites I quit looking at their product.
I think that most of them are doing the business in some way like: Sell today, not think for tomorrow! So they are doing everything is possible to get your money, like printing the fake, or interpolated or very poor quality 4K.
Today: they see in this magic 4K their only chance to sell their product because they have no brand, are unkown.
Tomorrow: but what to do when everybody is printing 4K on their cameras cases?

As jokiin wrote, some of them are assembling something is claimed to be 4K.
Some of them are showing to you proof as screenshots from QuickTime player for example, which is showing the interpolated resolution, not the real resolution.

With that companies which are in Sell, not Think league, is OK, but to be SJCam and sell cameras as 4K or to be XiaoYi and pretend to be XiaoMi and sell a fake 2K resolution dashcam is not OK for me.

It is sad for me to see people buying a fake 4K camera or to buy a poor dashcam with nothing special just because have some well-known name. I think SJCam stopped to create fake 4K cameras, but with real specs and this will be good for their future. Maybe their decision was also because of this thread.

But right now the biggest hoax is the Yi dashcam which is not made by XiaoMi but by Yi technology, it have fake SuperHD and first batch have focus problems, like mine:


How to recover money spent on Yi? Because a firmware update will not solve the problem, sending the camera back on China is not an option for allmost.

I added Yi to the list because fake SuperHD resolution and fake chipset.

enjoy,
Mtz
 
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Here's a recent example of my frustration, though this deals with an online seller rather than a manufacturer.

Product 1: http://www.gearbest.com/m-goods-sn-151144001.htm
My question: The ON Semiconductor AR0330 image sensor is a 3.4MP image sensor. Why do you claim it's a 12MP sensor?
Their reply: 12.0MP CMOS AR0330 image sensor. If you are talking about your order in our website, kindly open a ticket through your order to wait for our Customer Service to get the best solution please. Except you can't open a Customer Service Ticket without an order and this question was specifically identified on their own submittal form as a "Product information" inquiry. The reply was non-responsive.
Reference:
http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=AR0330

Product 2: http://www.gearbest.com/m-goods-sn-159140602.htm
My question: The Omnivision OV4689 image sensor is a 4MP sensor. Why do you describe the camera as having a 16MP sensor?
Their reply: Hi dear, OV4689 16.0MP HD image sensor

Reference: http://www.ovt.com/download_document.php?type=sensor&sensorid=136

At least in these cases the component manufacturers' data was available.
 
their logic for image sensor spec will be based on whatever the highest interpolated resolution the camera offers in the menu, that aside you have to keep in mind that they generally know very little about the actual products they are selling, it will be limited to whatever is printed on the box or any accompanying paperwork it might come with, not saying that makes it ok but it's the reality of what you're dealing with when you buy from these guys
 
Here's a recent example of my frustration, though this deals with an online seller rather than a manufacturer.

Product 1: http://www.gearbest.com/m-goods-sn-151144001.htm
My question: The ON Semiconductor AR0330 image sensor is a 3.4MP image sensor. Why do you claim it's a 12MP sensor?
Their reply: 12.0MP CMOS AR0330 image sensor. If you are talking about your order in our website, kindly open a ticket through your order to wait for our Customer Service to get the best solution please. Except you can't open a Customer Service Ticket without an order and this question was specifically identified on their own submittal form as a "Product information" inquiry. The reply was non-responsive.
Reference:
http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=AR0330

Product 2: http://www.gearbest.com/m-goods-sn-159140602.htm
My question: The Omnivision OV4689 image sensor is a 4MP sensor. Why do you describe the camera as having a 16MP sensor?
Their reply: Hi dear, OV4689 16.0MP HD image sensor

Reference: http://www.ovt.com/download_document.php?type=sensor&sensorid=136

At least in these cases the component manufacturers' data was available.

Ahh okay, go to the camera brand...GearBest just sells and as @Mtz has said these websites don't care 'about tomorrow'.

So the second link, it's ELE, find some contact details for ELE then send them what you have found and see what they say. Most manufacturers will ONLY answer the questions you pose to them. So your question would probably illicit a response like you got, the better question would be:

'I read the OV4689 documentation located HERE (give a link) and it states this camera is only 4MP. Why are you advertising it as 16MP? Is it interpolated?

That's just from my experience.
 
'I read the OV4689 documentation located HERE (give a link) and it states this camera is only 4MP. Why are you advertising it as 16MP? Is it interpolated?

ironically I was copied on some email correspondence recently for a second opinion where this exact question was asked (different factory but same sensor) and the response still came back that the higher res was correct and it was somehow 'upgraded' this went back and forth quite a few times before a bit of prodding resulted in the word interpolated being used, keep in mind that a lot of factories have no engineering capability of their own and don't know a lot about the products they assemble so the initial responses aren't all that surprising, it's not an attempt to deceive in most cases, it's just genuinely not knowing the product
 
You're both right jokiin and JooVuu, One way I could have approached it would have been to include a link to the manufacturer's data when I made the request to the vendor. I should have known it would be too much for a vendor to actually check the manufacturer's website!

The first camera is a no-name brand so I wouldn't be able to contact the manufacturer. Regarding the Elephone I might contact them and see what they have to say about a vendor making false claims about their product.

I should note that I was careful in these two examples to use a seller/camera where the claim was not JUST 12MP or 16MP photos but rather the sensor itself was the claim. On the Elephone website, as is so often the case with the Chinese manufacturers, they skirt the truth without actually lying because they never say the SENSOR is 16MP, only that the photos are 16MP. They simply omit the clarification that that's interpolated, not native. Of course in my opinion that's lying but technically . . . ? At least they're honest about the 4K capability by admitting it records at a crappy 15fps.

http://www.elephone.cc/elephone-4k-action-sports-camera.html

I understand about assembly vs. manufacturers that do their own engineering and assembly. No doubt that's one of the problems with no-name or almost-unknown manufacturers. One can expect that with such non-brands but of course shouldn't have to. Still, caveat emptor I suppose.
 
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