The message is clear. Don't mess with the Uber driver.

[Dashmellow]

I mentioned about the possibility of mistaking the phone for the gun...

Yes, you did mention mistaking the cell phone for a gun. I was referring to the raising of his arm as if aiming a gun that seemed to have gotten lost in the discussion (and difficult to see in the video)

 

[DashcamDPR]

I did mention that. I said he would get a not guilty verdict from me on that fact alone. It's reasonable doubt. Case dismissed.

But I still don't believe the uber driver was actually mislead by that. He intended to shoot as soon as the other guy approached, no matter what.


Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

I think that's where we slightly disagree... I wholeheartedly believe the truck driver's body language, even in such a short few seconds, was more than enough for the Uber driver to read and process what I see as a genuine threat, and defend accordingly.... BUT, as I mentioned earlier, we don't see what may have happened in the 30 seconds or even 45 minutes before this clip

 

[Dashmellow]

I did mention that. I said he would get a not guilty verdict from me on that fact alone. It's reasonable doubt. Case dismissed.

But I still don't believe the uber driver was actually mislead by that. He intended to shoot as soon as the other guy approached, no matter what.


Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

You can't speak for what the Uber driver's "intentions" were under those circumstances. You are merely projecting your beliefs and opinions onto him. You don't know how anyone, yourself included would react under such circumstances.

 

[Dashmellow]

I think that's where we slightly disagree... I wholeheartedly believe the truck driver's body language, even in such a short few seconds, was more than enough for the Uber driver to read and process what I see as a genuine threat, and defend accordingly.... BUT, as I mentioned earlier, we don't see what may have happened in the 30 seconds or even 45 minutes before this clip

The police likely got to see (and hear) the entire video clip leading up to the incident. We only get the abbreviated news broadcast version.

 

[DashcamDPR]

Something just popped into my head, I can't remember if it's from a film or a TV drama or something like that, from many, many years ago (I was a child at the time), but it was to do with fire arms training, and it showed an officer who was doing firearms training watching a screen with a person pointing an object towards them and they had to quickly decide if it was a threat or not and I just remember one incident of the officer shooting, believing it to be a gun pointed at them, the person on the screen was then shown turning to his side and was holding a small fastened up umbrella, but aiming it like a gun. In a controlled training environment where the threat is manufactured it's still difficult to tell. So when an aggressive man in a state where guns are common, leaves a truck coming towards you basically "brandishing" a small black object, at night in an area out of the way, no matter what it is, how can the Uber driver think anything else other than "I might only have 2 seconds left to live"?

 

[Rajagra]

, I'd stand off to the side and point to his wheel using very clear non-aggressive body language, with no black object in my hand.

So you would raise your arm just as the dead guy did right before he got shot! The movement everyone here seems to agree justifies the shooting in a legal sense.

Why do you say you wouldn't have an object in your hand? The guy in the video had no more reason to have something in his hand than you or I. He just happened to have the phone in his hand. Could've happened to you too.

Would you really - consciously - be using non-aggressive body language? Why? Would you have reason to think you might be shot when you were trying to help him? No.

You would like to believe you'd be acting calmly and not appear as a threat. But isn't it possible you'd be over excited because you'd narrowly averted a bad crash and the driver had refused to listen to you?

The fact is, an innocent person could easily encounter this uber driver and end up dead, just because he was scared.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

[Dashmellow]

Something just popped into my head, I can't remember if it's from a film or a TV drama or something like that, from many, many years ago (I was a child at the time), but it was to do with fire arms training, and it showed an officer who was doing firearms training watching a screen with a person pointing an object towards them and they had to quickly decide if it was a threat or not and I just remember one incident of the officer shooting, believing it to be a gun pointed at them, the person on the screen was then shown turning to his side and was holding a small fastened up umbrella, but aiming it like a gun. In a controlled training environment where the threat is manufactured it's still difficult to tell. So when an aggressive man in a state where guns are common, leaves a truck coming towards you basically "brandishing" a small black object, at night in an area out of the way, no matter what it is, how can the Uber driver think anything else other than "I might only have 2 seconds left to live"?

Good point. I went back and grabbed another screen shot just as the angry guy is emerging from his truck.

What does it look like he's holding? And exactly two to three seconds later he exclaims "You know I gotta' gun?, You want me to f**king" shoot you?", just as he begins to raise his arm in the shooting pose. The shot is fired within the next two seconds or so.

 

[Rajagra]

You can't speak for what the Uber driver's "intentions" were under those circumstances. You are merely projecting your beliefs and opinions onto him. You don't know how anyone, yourself included would react under such circumstances.

I know. I clearly stated what is my belief, and that I knew there was reasonable doubt. Assumed innocent BY LAW until PROVEN guilty. But I stand by my opinion that he was too trigger happy.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

[DashcamDPR]

So you would raise your arm just as the dead guy did right before he got shot! The movement everyone here seems to agree justifies the shooting in a legal sense.

Why do you say you wouldn't have an object in your hand? The guy in the video had no more reason to have something in his hand than you or I. He just happened to have the phone in his hand. Could've happened to you too.

Would you really - consciously - be using non-aggressive body language? Why? Would you have reason to think you might be shot when you were trying to help him? No.

You would like to believe you'd be acting calmly and not appear as a threat. But isn't it possible you'd be over excited because you'd narrowly averted a bad crash and the driver had refused to listen to you?

The fact is, an innocent person could easily encounter this uber driver and end up dead, just because he was scared.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

He wasn't just holding his phone, he was brandishing it. I would be keeping my arm low and pointing down at his wheel, not aiming at him. I would be very conscious of my body language on purpose when approaching ANY stranger on the road because I do think about the possibility of a person being potentially scared of being approached. (similar situation when I tried to advise a woman 13 years ago that none of her rear lights were working). I'd never come across as over excited at an incident on the road because I've seen enough to be able to handle almost all situations on the roads (I know that won't apply to many other people).

To be honest, and I hope you know I mean no disrespect in arguing your point, but the fact is, it wasn't an innocent person encountering this Uber driver, it was an aggressive man hell-bent on a dangerous confrontation and I believe that was clear to see in the short time it took for him to emerge from his truck to the point he got shot

 

[Dashmellow]

I know. I clearly stated what is my belief, and that I knew there was reasonable doubt. Assumed innocent BY LAW until PROVEN guilty. But I stand by my belief that he was too trigger happy.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

I think @DT MI had it right when he said, "There's no way where I'm going to wait to see a muzzle flash before making the decision to defend myself." The whole scenario from the time the guy steps out of his truck with a black object in his hands until he gets shot is over in less than five seconds. Wait too long and you end up the victim. In a scenario like that there is no time to think; you are running on instinct and adrenaline.

 

[Rajagra]

To be honest, and I hope you know I mean no disrespect in arguing your point, but the fact is, it wasn't an innocent person encountering this Uber driver, it was an aggressive man hell-bent on a dangerous confrontation and I believe that was clear to see in the short time it took for him to emerge from his truck to the point he got shot

And I hope you know I'm not defending the truck driver. At all. I'm just pointing out that the uber driver was all geared up to shoot, and chose to do so, long before it was necessary. He did not consider alternative actions. He's a dangerous person to be carrying a gun in that profession.

And I'll bet you at odds of ten to one that he has a history, and this will be revealed as the story develops.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

[Nigel]

That argument is pointless, there is only one way to avoid accidental? deaths like this in future - get rid of the guns!

 

[DT MI]

...there is only one way to avoid accidental? deaths like this in future - get rid of the guns!

Don't miscategorize this as an accident - it was anything but that. By any definition, whether you agree with it or not, is was an act of self defense - not an accident.

 

[Dashmellow]

That argument is pointless, there is only one way to avoid accidental? deaths like this in future - get rid of the guns!

That's a different discussion. This discussion is about justifiable self defense and Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. FWIW, this is the ONLY example I've ever seen where the law worked as intended. In every other example I'm aware of, the person doing the shooting really did fit @Rajagra's definition of "trigger happy". In this scenario there was no time to "consider alternatives".

 

[DashcamDPR]

And I hope you know I'm not defending the truck driver. At all. I'm just pointing out that the uber driver was all geared up to shoot, and chose to do so, long before it was necessary. He did not consider alternative actions. He's a dangerous person to be carrying a gun in that profession.

And I'll bet you at odds of ten to one that he has a history, and this will be revealed as the story develops.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

This brings me to another point or two that are wide open to speculation, Was he geared up to shoot because of the kind of person he is, or because of the possibility that there were several minutes of publicly unseen "incident" leading up to the clips we've seen, that have potentially led to the Uber driver ensuring his gun is at hand? Also, He had passed the police academy(?) and was also a trained security guard which is why he was lawfully carrying anyway (excluding what restrictions Uber may have). In the state he's in I don't know what the laws would be for an Uber driver having a gun with him, or any taxi driver for that matter.

We can't rule out that you might be right that the Uber driver could have a history in this area, or even be a seriously unhinged individual

 

[Nigel]

Don't miscategorize this as an accident - it was anything but that. By any definition, whether you agree with it or not, is was an act of self defense - not an accident.

You say that it wasn't accidental, so the killing was intentional... getting rid of the guns would still prevent it happening again.

 

[DT MI]

You say that it wasn't accidental, so the killing was intentional...

Absolutely - by definition. IT. WAS. SELF. DEFENSE.

 

[DT MI]

You say that it wasn't accidental, so the killing was intentional... getting rid of the guns would still prevent it happening again.

I like (not really) how you change your message after I responded. (That's why I quote drivel like that in it's entirety.)

Anyhow, following on with your modified post using that same logic then getting rid of knives will prevent a lot of killings in London, getting rid of white vans will prevent killings on London Bridge. Should I continue? See how ludicrous that argument is?

To directly address the added on portion of your post - you can't 'get rid' of the guns, they will always exist as they do in present day London - or are you in denial about that? The best that can be done is to make them illegal but the people that want to use them illicitly will still do so.

 

[dash riposki]

The man shot was on probation for felony battery, (Sound aggressive to you?) driving DRUNK with a suspended drivers license, and shot while engaged in another violent attack.

I'm not losing any sleep over his death.

 

[SawMaster]

Yeah neighbor, me either. But to me it is clear that at the beginning of the video we've seen that Mr. ExUber had prepared for shooting and was making no attempts to let anything else happen. Maybe something previous made him do this and maybe not. Much like him if I expect an armed confrontation my gun will be in my hand, but it will already be aimed at the target visibly so they know what will be coming next if they don't chill out. I have had to do this before and it does work with anyone who has a shred of common sense still functioning. I hope I never meet someone who doesn't for I do not want to kill anyone but if there is no other choice then I will.

This all can be argued forever but there's really not much more we can ascertain until we have more facts and more proof of everything which led up to this.

I sincerely hope that none of us ever has to even come close to anything like this.
Phil