UHS-II microSD compatible dashcams on the horizon? (plus the elephant of UFS)

[Agie]

They do seem pretty pricey for what you get but they also seem to be made for rugged conditions. That too may be marketing hype as most cards are pretty rugged these days, so not sure that justifies the prices.

It's an interesting marketing scheme to make them in Blaze Orange to appeal to the hunter crowd as they will certainly stand out in displays at the sporting goods stores. Many of these buyers have no idea about memory card specs and that's probably what they are counting on.

Then again, memory cards that are orange on both sides would definitely be easier to see in the low light conditions one often encounters when hunting or when dropped on the forest floor. This is an interesting idea and I could have used such a card more than a few times to find cards that I've dropped or had go shooting off somewhere in my truck. In fact, just the other evening, I fumbled with a memory card I was reinserting into a side camera on the rear open door of my truck and dropped it onto my gravel driveway. It took several minutes of looking for it with a flashlight because the black side of the card was facing up and it blended into its surroundings. A card that's blaze orange or some other florescent color on both sides would have been easy to spot.

You're spot on, a lot of the cards these days are rugged. Some seem to only operate say 0C to 60C, while others like this new SanDisk (and probably their older Extreme lines) operate from like -25C to 85C conditions.

I did some reading today and it seems that Samsung's just announced Pro Ultimate line has pretty much same specs as this new SanDisk one. Also has the same immersion in liquid capabilities as well. Only real differentiator is the colour scheme on the Sandisk, which to be fair, could come quite in handy if the card gets lost.

The microSD only has the top bit as orange, wish the whole thing was orange to be honest to make it stand out more.


I was going to buy the Samsung PRO Ultimate to give it a spin, but hesitated when I saw that of course the only way you can get the maximum advertised read and write speeds is to use their own USB-A microSD reader --- which of course doesn't come in the box!

 

[Dashmellow]

You're spot on, a lot of the cards these days are rugged. Some seem to only operate say 0C to 60C, while others like this new SanDisk (and probably their older Extreme lines) operate from like -25C to 85C conditions.

I did some reading today and it seems that Samsung's just announced Pro Ultimate line has pretty much same specs as this new SanDisk one. Also has the same immersion in liquid capabilities as well. Only real differentiator is the colour scheme on the Sandisk, which to be fair, could come quite in handy if the card gets lost.

Most microSD memory cards have had all the same rugged protections as these newer "Outdoors" cards claim and have for quite some time, including immersion in liquids and seawater for 72 hours.

This is what Sandisk says on their website and apparently it's not just limited to the Extreme line.



The older Samsung EVO Select cards offer this level of durability as well.


Even the ancient SanDisk Ultra cards offered the same protections, so these features have been around for a long time.

 

[DT MI]

Most microSD memory cards have had all the same rugged protections as these newer "Outdoors" cards claim and have for quite some time,

This is what happens when the marketing department gets involved - as in politics, the truth is secondary to image.

Over the last 15 or more years (back when the Canon D30 was new) I've had numerous microSD, SD and CF cards go through the laundry, some the washer and dryer, and all continued to function properly afterward. (I had, and still have, a habit of putting cards in my pocket and forgetting about them.)

 

[Dashmellow]

This is what happens when the marketing department gets involved - as in politics, the truth is secondary to image.

Over the last 15 or more years (back when the Canon D30 was new) I've had numerous microSD, SD and CF cards go through the laundry, some the washer and dryer, and all continued to function properly afterward. (I had, and still have, a habit of putting cards in my pocket and forgetting about them.)

Exactly, it's a classic example of recycled marketing in new clothes. Slap the name "Outdoors" on a product that's basically been around for years and offer it in a Blaze Orange color and voilá you've got a whole new demographic of customers to cater to.

So you washed a couple of memory cards, huh? That's nothing! Over the last ten years or so, I've accidentally laundered a flip-phone, a couple of memory cards, a pocket digital audio recorder and a USB drive. The phone was still working after I dried it out but the audio wasn't so good anymore. The USB drive got lodged in the washing machine's pump but I was able to repair it by taking it apart (the pump), which was how I found out what happened to my missing USB drive. The memory cards survived just fine but the pocket recorder was toast. The USB drive became iffy so I no longer trusted it with data. Right around the same time I washed my phone I got a call from the wife of my neighbor who plowed my driveway with his payloader after an unusually big snow storm telling me she washed his shirt with the check I gave him that he left in one of the pockets. I told her about my phone and we both had a good laugh.

 

[DT MI]

...Over the last ten years or so, I've accidentally laundered a flip-phone, a couple of memory cards, a pocket digital audio recorder and a USB drive...

Oh yes, I've also done car keys, fobs (they don't work afterwards $$$), flash drives, pocket change, credit cards, etc. Just about anything that will fit in a pocket.

 

[Dashmellow]

Oh yes, I've also done car keys, fobs (they don't work afterwards $$$), flash drives, pocket change, credit cards, etc. Just about anything that will fit in a pocket.

OK then, welcome to the club! I've probably left out some of the items I've put through the laundry. I'll probably remember them later.

 

[Agie]

Most microSD memory cards have had all the same rugged protections as these newer "Outdoors" cards claim and have for quite some time, including immersion in liquids and seawater for 72 hours.

This is what Sandisk says on their website and apparently it's not just limited to the Extreme line.

View attachment 68608

The older Samsung EVO Select cards offer this level of durability as well.
View attachment 68607

Even the ancient SanDisk Ultra cards offered the same protections, so these features have been around for a long time.

View attachment 68610

@Vortex Radar

Decidedly so. As usual they're pulling the wool over our eyes with these kinds of things.

Same with the write and read speeds advertisements. I was gullible and stupid enough to buy the new Samsung PRO Ultimate microSD yesterday, I knew going in that the max speeds would only be able to be achieved using their own microSD readers. But yeah, no different to the Viofo cards I've been testing in terms of read and write speeds. Even though it claims to have DDR tech (halfway point between UHS-I and UHS-II speeds). And the whole 27% more efficient microcontroller in their press release - no way to discern or measure that either.

At this stage, with the terms A2 V30, supposed max read/write speeds all being thrown about, I conclude it's just all marketing and the average consumer cannot discern what the hell is going on between brands and variants of microSD cards.

I'll admit I'm a speed freak but with there only being a handful of UHS-II microSD cards on the market and SD Express development seemingly stalling (whether due to competition from CF, or just Lexar and SanDisk giving up), PLUS another new SD Express standard announced last night --- I just think there's nothing to be excited about for the foreseeable future.

Shame really as although it seems the dash cam tech at this point may outpace the speed of the physical media it writes to...

 

[Agie]

And just found an article that could explain it better than anyone ever could: https://petapixel.com/2023/10/19/sd-express-got-an-update-but-it-still-wont-make-the-format-work/

Shame, but seems it's a format that's dead in the arse for the foreseeable future..

 

[Vortex Radar]

I don’t think read/write speeds are really the main point here. What’s the max file sizes we see with multi channel dashcams at max bitrates? Maybe 500ish MB/min? I just checked the U3000 and that’s 350 MB/min which translates to 5.83 MB/s or 46.6 Mb/s. Something like 100 MB/s write speeds is overkill for our needs right now.

I love fast read speeds when offloading footage, but that’s just a bonus.

For dashcams specifically, the main things I look for are reliability related. Can it handle constant writing 24/7 for years? Can it handle high temperatures for hot sunny days parked inside a hot dashcam with limited cooling?

Can we trust that the card will reliably continue to record for the times we need it? That’s what we’re looking at with “Endurance” rated cards.

 

[Nigel]

And just found an article that could explain it better than anyone ever could: https://petapixel.com/2023/10/19/sd-express-got-an-update-but-it-still-wont-make-the-format-work/

Shame, but seems it's a format that's dead in the arse for the foreseeable future..

...

Because they are so thin, an SD card that attempts to run at the same speed as a CFexpress will get so hot the plastic will melt unless it is thermally throttled, which will drop performance and defeat the purpose of using PCIe to begin with.

We are already seeing thermal throttling with some current cards, which is why some are unreliable!

 

[Agie]

I don’t think read/write speeds are really the main point here. What’s the max file sizes we see with multi channel dashcams at max bitrates? Maybe 500ish MB/min? I just checked the U3000 and that’s 350 MB/min which translates to 5.83 MB/s or 46.6 Mb/s. Something like 100 MB/s write speeds is overkill for our needs right now.

I love fast read speeds when offloading footage, but that’s just a bonus.

For dashcams specifically, the main things I look for are reliability related. Can it handle constant writing 24/7 for years? Can it handle high temperatures for hot sunny days parked inside a hot dashcam with limited cooling?

Can we trust that the card will reliably continue to record for the times we need it? That’s what we’re looking at with “Endurance” rated cards.

Fair points, I do wonder about Endurance cards after all - I mean they're probably no better in terms of durability when it comes to normal microSD product lines. But as they're rated for more writes than normal product lines, is there a tangible benefit I wonder, considering these Endurance lines appear to (in reviews) have much slower read and write speeds than normal lines, for their obvious endurancey purposes.

Can a buyer just grab an Endurance card, run that dashcam in hot and cold weather for say five years, and be done with it. That's what I wonder - would save me wasting money on microSD cards over the years haha

It's a bloody confusing landscape for the buyer of microSD cards lol

 

[DAP]

The thing about rated write speed is that it only measures write speed. This is fine for most cameras, but dash cams and security cameras are simultaneously erasing and writing. Erasing is a slow operation in FLASH memory. There is no rating that I have ever seen that shows the sustained overwrite speed of an SD card.

 

[Agie]

Seems like Samsung has thrown themselves in the ring to try and revive SD Express: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...-faster-than-sata-speeds-for-microsd-devices/

But as we know, Lexar and others stalled on this, and with no-one supporting the format (and DSLR's using CF cards instead), this seems like another ill-fated effort.

 

[Agie]

Looks like we may be seeing some more movement with this now that SanDisk has announced they're throwing themselves in the ring too: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sandi...nd-900-MB-s-speed-in-the-summer.826237.0.html

Unfortunately seems like there will need to be a lot more vendors on board for things like SD card readers and the hardware obviously, before it ever gets off the ground..