When the message being sent is "cyclists can do whatever they want"

[Module 79L]

They are also consistently selfish, infringing other people's rights "because they can" and they use their vulnerability as a weapon to force motorists to back down.

That's a perfect description but of something else: portuguese pedestrians.

 

[kamkar]

"they use their vulnerability as a weapon to force motorists to back down."

Indeed they do, not least here where it is sort of in the law / traffic code for motorists to be extra considerate around them. ( also pedestrians )

Sure most cyclists here pedal along as they are supposed to if you dont factor in the hand signaling they are supposed to do when stopping and turning, and use of smart phones turning them into unguided 2 wheeled flesh torpedoes.

And then there is the black sheep that do as they please.

So in general just like the people that drive cars and motorcycles, but at least the car drivers are sort of safe inside a metal case and maybe wearing a seatbelt.
So as i have grown older is is a mystery to me why cyclists so weak and fragile and unprotected want to gamble that way with their own safety.
Sure i could understand it if all cyclists was 16 - 25 where your well-being is second or third to a lot of things, but here the bulk of people cycling are actually fully grown people that should know better.

I verbally applaud cyclists that are cycling just the way they should, i can do that cuz it is actually rare you see one of those, and thats frightening considering how many pedal-pushers we have here in Denmark.

And me applauding is me yelling out of the open window " nice bit of cyclist work there" and then dishing out a big fat thumbs up, and if traffic allow it getting eye contact and crack off a smile, this not least if its a cute girl

 

[old4570]

Denmark is a very interesting place , and yes from what I understand cyclist are the privileged ones ...
But I believe from the documentaries I have seen , it is written "onto" law ...

Thou shalt not kill cyclists
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors bicycle
Respect thy bicycles
Thous shalt not steal bicycles

And some times the law is an ass ..

Even the road rules here can be monumentally stupid .. Even Dangerous ! And do you think anyone wants to do something about them ?
I really can't fathom why doing the wrong thing is so easy , and doing the right thing is so hard ( across the board = Everything )
Such is life , .......................

 

[Rajagra]

I really can't fathom why doing the wrong thing is so easy , and doing the right thing is so hard ( across the board = Everything )
Such is life , .......................

Now that's the truth, and there are people out there who actively make it that way.

It is especially true of UK road planners - you would think that driving forward and going forward at every junction would be the simplest thing in the world, but no, every hundred yards they lay traps luring you into the wrong lane, or split the single lane into two and back again for no good reason and no advantage. It causes constant stress, constant opportunities for people to cheat, constantly putting you in the wrong lane despite trying so hard to use the right one. And of course, all the associated dangers for all involved.

And the people coming up with these designs think they are so clever! They can't have heard of KISS: "Keep It Simple, Stupid."


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[old4570]

Yeah ... They have started doing the same thing here .. ( Lanes and confusing the heck out of people )
Its gotten to the point I have to google my road trip before going anywhere to see what traps lay ahead ..

 

[Viking]

The bicycle from hell. Nobody can't pass it and the bicycle lane is to narrow for there bicycle . Go extremely slow. Loved by the free spirits Danish people (Not Kamkar1), special in Copenhagen, where there got narrow streets. I generate lot of pollution, not by it self, but all the car there is going idle behind it.

 

[kamkar]

Yeah it will take a squatting stoned hippie to come up with a bike like that, but i doubt the inventor ever thought about what other people would have to say about it in traffic.
Where that bike was invented will be the first place torn down if i was to decide, damn hippies stole prime real estate in the middle of Copenhagen, and no one do anything.

And why support criminal hippies when you can get the real deal, the one and only long John, that any self respecting shop had for deliveries when i was a kid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freight_bicycle

You could even get mopeds like this, i remember some one ditched a stolen cargo NSU in the hood, and one kid in the seat and 2 on the bed of it, and in first gear we could not find a hill it could not drive up, paved or not.

 

[Rajagra]

The bicycle from hell. Nobody can't pass it and the bicycle lane is to narrow for there bicycle .

Looks like the taxi bikes we have here. I watched one of them (without passenger) weave in and out of traffic around Hyde Park. Its a dangerous road system for all traffic, but this guy not only did all the usual cyclist sins, he seemed to have completely forgotten he was wider than regular bikes,so he had even less justification (and ability) for doing it. But of course everyone else had to avoid hitting him. It's just amazing we don't have cyclist roadkill every single day in London.

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[DT MI]

...It's just amazing we don't have cyclist roadkill every single day in London....

Just means the motorists aren't trying hard enough.

 

[Idetectstuff]

Your original post to the video:
"I thought a bicycle had just as much right to a lane as a car ?
Or do bicycles need to be in the gutter in the UK ?"

I fail to see how your Australian perspective has anything to do with comprehending the answers to your two questions. The video clearly showed -- and road markings and rules were adequately explained -- that the bicyclists did have exclusive rights to a lane (that is -- the "blue" lane designated for their exclusive use) but chose to wholly and obnoxiously occupy a travel lane not designated for their use at all.

Anything beyond that, to include your thoughts on hypotheticals NOT shown in the video ("[L]ooks dangerous .. The way its set up . for the cyclist ... Especially where the pedestrian crossings are"), is kinda pointless and off topic.

 

[old4570]

Your original post to the video:
"I thought a bicycle had just as much right to a lane as a car ?
Or do bicycles need to be in the gutter in the UK ?"

I fail to see how your Australian perspective has anything to do with comprehending the answers to your two questions. The video clearly showed -- and road markings and rules were adequately explained -- that the bicyclists did have exclusive rights to a lane (that is -- the "blue" lane designated for their exclusive use) but chose to wholly and obnoxiously occupy a travel lane not designated for their use at all.

Anything beyond that, to include your thoughts on hypotheticals NOT shown in the video ("[L]ooks dangerous .. The way its set up . for the cyclist ... Especially where the pedestrian crossings are"), is kinda pointless and off topic.

A) Perspective has everything to do with it ...
B) Meanderings are meanderings

You must learn perspective :
Case in point : Two people are looking at the same mountain . The mountain has been there for millions of years and has not changed much in the last few hundred thousand years .
One person lives 50 miles south of the mountain and has their perspective on the mountain
The other person lives 50 miles north of the mountain ..

Every time these two people meet , they can never see eye to eye on the mountain as each has their own perspective .. NEVER mind they are both talking about the same mountain ! A mountain that has been there for millions of years .
I am sorry ! I really am , because perspective has everything to do with it .

 

[franka]

??????
I thought a bicycle had just as much right to a lane as a car ?
Or do bicycles need to be in the gutter in the UK ?

The way that some[most] cyclists ignore the rules of the road, i.e. ignore traffic signals, ignore traffic signs, ignore lane markings,ignore pedestriancrossing, then yes to your question.

 

[old4570]

The way that some[most] cyclists ignore the rules of the road, i.e. ignore traffic signals, ignore traffic signs, ignore lane markings,ignore pedestriancrossing, then yes to your question.

Interesting Perspective :
I guess the same way car drivers ignore the rules , pedestrians . traffic lights etc etc ...
If only everyone was golden !

 

[franka]

Read my post carefully "MOST cyclists".
Your post should read "FEW car drivers".

Next time you come to the UK and experience our roads, then you may be taken more seriously.

 

[old4570]

Read my post carefully "MOST cyclists".
Your post should read "FEW car drivers".

Next time you come to the UK and experience our roads, then you may be taken more seriously.

That perspective thing : Our car drivers suck the big one ...
And my personal perspective is born from being run down by a tool driving a 4 wheel lethal weapon when I was a teen , oh and I was doing the right thing on the bike .
Problem was I was riding past an airport and the Tool was watching the planes rather than the road .

 

[Rajagra]

Franka is right, it's all about the numbers. The statistics. Facts are more important than perspective.

In the UK most motorists, most of the time, just bumble around nicely, they don't display much skill, they don't need to, they're just going about their business AVOIDING conflict.

MOST cyclists, in the other hand, are CONSTANTLY creating conflict, exceeding their rights and violating the rights of others to make better progress. They will even argue themselves "but we have to do this, we'd lose the benefit of cycling if we didn't."

For example, the vast majority of cyclists move across lanes whenever they need / want to, regardless of whether it's safe. Usually they don't bother looking, sometimes they know its unsafe but they do it anyway. After all, motorist have to avoid hitting them, right? It's the motorists' responsibility. Always blame the motorist when there's a collision.

The worst thing is, cyclists see what they do as normal, acceptable behaviour. It isn't. It's selfish, stupid, dangerous despicable behaviour. And they don't get why so many motorists get angry at them.

I too have had crashes while cycling. Two out of three of them were caused by other cyclists crossing into my path.

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[franka]

That perspective thing : Our car drivers suck the big one ...
And my personal perspective is born from being run down by a tool driving a 4 wheel lethal weapon when I was a teen , oh and I was doing the right thing on the bike .
Problem was I was riding past an airport and the Tool was watching the planes rather than the road .

So, it all becomes clearer. You have a grudge against motorists because of your experience in which you claim the motorist was entirely to blame.
If, as you claim, he was watching the planes then you must have observed this and thus you were not watching the road either, else you could have taken action to avoid the ultimate collision.....?

 

[old4570]

No not a grudge , a very healthy understanding of Stupid !
I see it every day . I wish people drove their lethal weapons safer , but they don't .
I am not saying cyclists can't be in the wrong , because they can .. But how many people do cyclists kill every year ?
If a cyclist does something stupid , who dies ? or suffers a horrendous injury ?
I understand that cyclists are annoying to some people ( Car Drivers ) .. And I think that cyclist should follow the road rules to the letter of the law ...
As to why cyclist get a little upset ?
I don't know ? Why would cyclists get upset ?
They are not surrounded by a protective steel cage , they are not in a vehicle weighing over one ton .
And when some one comes very close to them with their lethal weapon , well they might get a little worried about being killed ...

A little like the average person being upset if some one sent a bullet past them from a high powered rifle might be upset at being nearly killed .

I rode a bike ( bicycle ) from the age of 2 maybe till I was about 25 , so maybe 23 years off bicycle ridding ..
And a pet peeve is cars coming too close .. Sure its fine for the car driver , they probably feel that such is perfectly safe for them ( which it is obviously ) .
But for a bike rider , it's a near death experience ..
So on the bicycle VS car issue , FK the car drivers ....
Any driver that comes close to a cyclist should have their license taken away for reckless endangerment .
I havent ridden a bike in a long time now , Close to 30 years now .
And as a confirmed CAR driver , I have very little regard for my fellow drivers .
For some reason if you use a car as your weapon of choice , then you get special treatment ..
Use a Gun or knife and you get slapped stupid ...
I would like to see some parity , I would like to see those using cars as weapons slapped stupid as well .
I honestly believe that maybe 20% of license holders in my State in Australia should not be on the road in charge of a lethal weapon .
And another 20% should be up-skilled , and the rest be retested for the road rules .

Having being in contact with the minister for road safety , all I can say is - He obviously has no interest in road safety !
Unsafe dangerous drivers are a CASH COW for the Government ..
If everyone drove safely ? - WOW ! Could you imagine ..

My heart bleeds for the car drivers that have to deal with cyclists ( Not ) ... And this is from a car driver ..

 

[old4570]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...iq-khan-bikes-race-class-gender-a8367916.html Hmmm , Looks like they want more Cyclists ...

https://www.cyclinguk.org/resources/cycling-uk-cycling-statistics

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-39856219

https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/road-safety-and-cycling-overview

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...eath-warning-against-witch-hunt-a7960291.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/act.../11702076/The-truth-about-cycling-safety.html

 

[Nigel]

But how many people do cyclists kill every year ?
If a cyclist does something stupid , who dies ? or suffers a horrendous injury ?

A surprising number if you expect it to be zero, and often it is the victim that gets the serious injuries since the cyclist is expecting the collision while the victim isn't.

The number of pedestrians left dead or seriously injured after being hit by cyclists has doubled in the past decade according to a Telegraph analysis of official data.
In 2016 three pedestrians died in such incidents across Great Britain while a further 108 sustained serious injury.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...tally-seriously-injured-cyclists-has-doubled/

A “dangerous” cyclist knocked down and killed a pedestrian on a busy London street and then blamed his victim, saying people have “zero respect”, a court heard.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41028321