ECOFLOW and Viofo

EricSan said:
Looks like the thermal engineering has been improved over the R2! The R3 seems to be on the cusp of being unhappy with the red temp reading and accompanying exclamation mark. I’m curious to see how it behaves as you get into summer and temps climb even higher, it’s still only May…
Click to expand...
Ha, you noticed "unhappy" red temp reading,😊(up to this point it was regular white color).
I wonder at what temperature the Over Temperature Protection’ will kick in.

I think, the ideal protection would be if R3 started limiting the charging current to 6A max between 50-55°C; 4A max between 55-60°C and OFF somewhere between 60-65°C. (I guess I'm dreaming)
 
GPak said:
I think, the ideal protection would be if R3 started limiting the charging current to 6A max between 50-55°C; 4A max between 55-60°C and OFF somewhere between 60-65°C. (I guess I'm dreaming)
Click to expand...
That seems very reasonable (and ideal!) to me, but I’m not sure we are EcoFlow’s target customer/use case. Would be easy enough to implement, though. Sounds like a simple programming task to vary charge rate by temp. There is already a setting for charge rate. Couldn’t take any more than 3-5 lines of additional code in the charging logic and would better protect the battery, potentially resulting in fewer warranty claims. Should be a standard feature for ALL LiFePo battery packs.

Is anyone in contact with their development/support team? Sounds like a simple ask…
 
EricSan said:
....
Should be a standard feature for ALL LiFePo battery packs.
Is anyone in contact with their development/support team? Sounds like a simple ask…
Click to expand...
From what I've seen, it looks like most dedicated batteries have a high temp rating in the 60-65°C range, with the PowerCell 8 being rated at 70°C (wonder why?).
However I don't recall anyone testing whether they actually have high temp protection and how it works.
@SafeDriveSolutions tested high temperature protection for some dash cams.
Maybe he or someone else can test some dedicated batteries someday?
 
GPak said:
most dedicated batteries have a high temp rating in the 60-65°C range, with the PowerCell 8 being rated at 70°C (wonder why?).
Click to expand...
I think the difference in rated temps comes down to “specsmanship.” There is no difference in battery technology, they are all using the same batteries. There can’t be much difference in the charging tech (component level) either. So the difference is most likely in how the heat generating components are coupled to the external chassis for heat dissipation. It’s hard to stress test with heat in an accurate manner because so few devices (toaster ovens) are able to maintain lower temps accurately in the 40-70c range.
 
Regarding the River3 USB-A ports, in case anyone wants to use it to power the dashcam:

The River3 USB-A ports are rated at 12W (5Vx2.4A) each, however, the voltage drop may cause dashcam cycling On/Off (power/voltage starvation).
So I tested USB-A ports to find the limits:

The actual USB-A output voltage is 5.1V without load, however, under the load, this voltage drops as follows:
For 1ch (Mini2) - USB-A output voltage drops to 5.01V
For 2ch (A229 Plus(2ch) - USB-A output voltage drops to 4.94V
For 2ch (2xMini2) - USB-A output voltage drops to 4.92V
For 3ch (A229 Plus(2ch)+Mini2) - USB-A output voltage drops to 4.85V
For 4ch (A229 Plus(2ch)+2x Mini2’s) - USB-A output voltage drops to around 4.8V (not stable) - at this voltage Viofo A229 Plus(2ch) enters ON/OFF cycle due to power/voltage starvation, while 2xMini2s are working stable.

The two USB-A ports are independent, so I run A229 Plus(2ch)+Mini2 (total of 3ch) from the first USB-A port, and the second Mini2 from the second USB-A port with no problem.
However, combining 2 USB-A ports with Y-cable did not help with voltage drop, works like single port.

Conclusion: A single USB-A port is only good for up to 3ch dashcam (up to 7.5W)

If a 4ch+ dashcam is needed, the alternate option is a USB-C to 5V converter/adapter linked below:
This adapters output is 5V without the load and this voltage drops as follows:
For 3ch (A229 Plus(2ch)+Mini2) - USB-C/5V output voltage drops to 4.91V
For 4ch (A229 Plus(2ch)+2x Mini2’s) - USB-C/5V output voltage drops to 4.89V (All dashcams work fine)

Links:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B0D3T2QDVJ
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B0CD1BHXPZ
 
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Wow, thanks for the testing, GPak! Have to say that’s a disappointing amount of voltage drop at 7.5w from a USC-A port that is rated to 12w. Rather poor voltage regulation for barely 60% load…. The USB-C port is a little better. With that much voltage drop, using thicker (18g) cables for longer runs will be a requirement.
 
I tested the USB-A ports for some of my power stations with A229 Plus, 2ch:

-Bluetti EB3A and River2: USB-A ports work the same as River3 port, although River 3 port seems to be of higher quality, with a tighter connection
-Necespow N150: One USB-A QC 3.0 port - no noticable voltage drop (the second regular USB-A port is similar to Ecoflow)
-Baseus: Both USB-A 2.0 ports - no noticable voltage drop

It seems that most reputable brands like Ecoflow and Bluetti use the older spec USB-A ports.
 
With a USB-C port (rated at 3A/45W at 15V output), the best option is to use a USB-C/15V cable.
USB-C/15V cable has an output of 15V without a load, and the voltage drops to about 14.4V at 15W load
(this is equivalent of a 6-channel DVR, and it can probably handle twice that)
  • Sufficient power and voltage is one of the reasons I recommended going with the USB-C/15V option.
  • The other reason is that it is the least amount of DIY work using the original unmodified HW kit.
(I understand that most people are not comfortable with even simple DIY work)
 
Shiwarrior said:
Where are you putting all these extra cameras?
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I assume you are referring to post #188
If so, I only mentioned the 6-channel dash cam to highlight the River3 USB-C/15V power output capability.

Personally, I only use the front and rear camera.
However, some users prefer multi-channel and/or multiple dash cams installed on windshield, rear and fixed side windows, for 360° coverage.
 
EricSan said:
It sounds like the best option, then, is to use a USB-C/15v cable and connect this to the 12v input on the hardwire kit. This will require a small amount of soldering ability. You provided the wiring diagram for this in post #28 of this thread.......
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Even no soldering required, one just needs to strip the wires and connect to the 12V input wires of the original HW kit using WAGO or similar connectors.
These connectors are very convenient and high quality, rated for 20A.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B0BZ5XHW23

The XT60 splitter can be used between the R3 and the included cigarette lighter charging cable to pick up a positive ACC signal when charging from a vehicle's ACC activated cigarette lighter socket.
XT60 Splitter

I think this is as simple as it gets.
 
Ha- I thought about Wago connectors just after I posted and haven't had time to come back and edit my post until now, but you beat me to it 😉. All you need then is a cheap pair of wire strippers, like these for $10:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/B08G48R47N
I used these for decades before I bought a more precise stripper from Klein Tools that I like even better.
 
GPak said:
There are a several ways how the River2 can be wired, with 12V out or 5V out to DashCam.
My preferred method would be 12V out like shown in attached diagram below.
In this case original HK4 can be used as is.

Use included Cig adapter/XT60 cable to charge River2 from car’s ACC activated Cig socket. (Make sure it is rated for 10A (the fuse is usually 20A for these sockets).
Splice yellow trigger wire (18-20AWG) with positive wire of the included Cig adapter/XT60 cable or use splitter like one in the link below, connect the included charging cable to one barrel and cut-off the other barrel and use positive 12V wire for the yellow trigger wire. (tape and do not use negative wire).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/B08CMT94CV

Get USB-C to 12V cable, similar to one in the link, and cut-off the barrel connector, to connect positive wire to Red and negative to Black wires of the HK4 to power DashCam. (15V cable provides better margin for 11.8V min setting of HK4 and may be better, but I am not sure without testing).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/B0CDFWRZB7

If you don’t have 10A rated ACC activated Cig socket you can similarly wire and charge form the fuse box (for the long wires 14 or better 12AWG wires would be needed) since River 2 charge rate using 12VDC is about 90-100W)

I think this should work unless I'm missing something.

EDIT: See post #57 for the video showing how this wiring works, and also for option to use USB-A to 12V converter cable, if USB-C cable requires unplugging and re-plugging to activate
GPak
EDIT 2: USB-C to 12V or 15V cable works well with River 2, it does not require unplugging/re-plugging routine and is more efficient option compere to USB-A to 12V converter cable.
GPak
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I ran into an issue with this setup. (Hopefully minor)

Equipment:
1) River 2 base version
2) Thinkware U3000 (Directly takes 12V input)
3) Thinkware hardwiring cable.

Issue:
The dashcam does not switch off when the vehicle is turned off.

Cause:
I discovered that River 2 produces about 0.9 volt back voltage on its XT60 input terminals when it is switched on.
And somehow that is enough for Thinkware U3000 to consider that the vehicle is "On" via its accessory cable. (If I physically detach the accessory cable, it switches off fine)

Planned Resolution:
I have ordered 2 1N4002 diodes which I will connect in series between the vehicle 12V accessory positive wire and the Thinkware U3000 accessory wire.
Since these diodes have a voltage drop of about 0.7 volts, 2 of these in series should ensure that the back voltage of 0.9 volts is "filtered out" as they will create a 1.4 volt minimum voltage barrier.

Currently I am waiting for the diodes to be delivered. Hopefully it will work.
 
Welcome to DCT @ankurthakurofficial !
And thanks for sharing your findings.
A well written post describing the hardware, the problem, the cause and possible solution, I can feel the handwriting of a fellow engineer. :happy:

At first I thought maybe your River 2 was faulty, so I checked my River2, River3 and River3Plus XT60 input terminals and here are the approximate results:
River2 = 1.0V,
River3 = 1.3V
River3 Plus = 3.5V (XT60i connector)
These voltages are not relay consistent.
I then shorted these terminals through a multimeter to check if there was any current and there was none.
It appears that this phantom voltage on the XT60 input terminals is not creating any real reverse current.
However, it is apparently enough for the Thinkware dash cam and/or hardwire cable to detect it.
For Viofo dash cams this phantom voltage does not cause any issues with switching to parking.

Your solution using diodes on the Thinkware ACC input might work, but I'm not sure how much voltage drop you'll get if there's virtually no current flowing.
Please keep us posted with the result.

Another solution would be to install a reverse current protection diode on the River2 input, but that would require a more powerful diode, similar to what we discussed in DIY LTO Battery thread and I tested in Posts # 184, 192, 195:

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/lto-lithium-titanate-oxide-–-the-ultimate-battery-for-dash-cam-parking-mode-diy.50484/post-626430
 
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GPak said:
Welcome to DCT @ankurthakurofficial !
And thanks for sharing your findings.
A well written post describing the hardware, the problem, the cause and possible solution, I can feel the handwriting of a fellow engineer. :happy:

.....

Another solution would be to install a reverse current protection diode on the River2 input, but that would require a more powerful diode, similar to what we discussed in DIY LTO Battery thread and I tested in Posts # 184, 192, 195:

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/lto-lithium-titanate-oxide-–-the-ultimate-battery-for-dash-cam-parking-mode-diy.50484/post-626430
Click to expand...
Thanks for the welcome GPak. I happen to be an engineer. Studied Industrial Engineering, ended up working in I.T. but my heart was always in electronics 🙂.

Regarding usage of diodes, I chose that route based on the following video.

Theoretically connecting two of these diodes in series will ensure no current flows and no voltage is observed at the other end until the applied voltage overcomes the forward voltage drop i.e. approx. 1.4 volts which will only happen when ACC is switched on.

I did consider the reverse current protection diode. However for my use case it was an overkill as accessory wire supposedly is just a "signaling" wire and should not carry any meaningful current do simple diodes should do the trick. (Plus I was a bit scared of reverse current protection diodes getting heated up and potentially causing a fire 🙂 )
EricSan said:
I recommend the rectangular black diode board from AliExpress that GPak showed in his linked post. You can find it here for $5. Works great and is extremely efficient.

Click to expand...
Thanks for the link 🙂
In case the simple solution doesn't work then I will definitely give a try to the reverse current protection diode.
 
@ankurthakurofficial not knowing exactly where you plan to install your diodes, the one I linked will handle enormous current without issue. The 1N4002 diodes are great, but are for currents less than 1A, but I'm presuming you already knew that.
 
EricSan said:
@ankurthakurofficial not knowing exactly where you plan to install your diodes, the one I linked will handle enormous current without issue. The 1N4002 diodes are great, but are for currents less than 1A, but I'm presuming you already knew that.
Click to expand...
It is going to be on the "accessory" wire of the hardwire kit so that it does not pass through the phantom 0.9 Volt back voltage (that the Ecoflow River 2 produces) to the U3000 Dashcam causing it to think that the car is still on. The current should be almost zero. Hopefully I will get the diodes delivered today / tomorrow and will share a photograph of what I am doing.
 
So the diodes arrived and it didn't work. The diodes passed through the 0.9 volt phantom voltage as is. I suspect the voltage drop only happens when some "real" current flows through the diodes.



Anyway I am completely changing my approach for using River 2 with for the dash cam.



Plan:

1. Ditch the hardwiring cable and connect the dash cam using the provided OBD2 cable.



2. Use my spare Optimate TM500 DC to DC trickle charger to trickle charge my car battery using River 2's 12 volt DC outlet (or USB C to 12 V cable). Max charging current is limited to 2 amps and in battery maintenance mode it would be even less.



3. River 2 would get charged via the cigarette socket. And River 2 will continuously trickle charge the car battery keeping it topped up (and in directly keep powering the dash cam.)



4. Set dashcam switch off voltage to a high voltage e.g. 12.8 volts so that in the rare care that River 2 gets fully discharged, car battery is safe.



I will probably be using an obd2 splitter to connect the dash cam and the trickle charger together to the OBD2 port.

Based on what I have read, OBD2 port supports 4 to 6 amps easily. The max current that will pass through the OBD2 port in this setup will be 2 amps (trickle charger) + 0.5 amp (Dash cam) and normally it should be much less.



Hopefully this setup will prolong my main car battery life as well.
 
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