Mobius Varifocal Zoom IR

[Dashmellow]

I'm also curious if you experimented with "Lens Type" in mSetup? I just defaulted to "A lens," but have been meaning to experiment with the other lens settings to see if there is any difference.

Yes, extensively. Each lens type A-B-C adjusts the color balance to match the specific color characteristics of the lenses supplied by Mobius. Some aftermarket lenses can work fine with the default profiles and some don't. In fact, I noticed that the telephoto example you posted in kamkar1's thread has very poor color balance. It has a yellow and a green cast. I would definitely try the other two profiles and see if things improve. Virtually all decent quality dash cams are color balance tweaked for their supplied lenses. When you install an aftermarket lens you may or may not notice the difference depending on the match and blind luck of the draw.

If changing the default lens profile fails you can adjust manually. It can be tricky and time consuming. In my case, I happen to have a lengthy background in color correction in the photography, pre-press and four color printing industries so it's much easier for me and I don't think I would have been able to do what I've done here with this IR lens otherwise. If you don't understand the basic concepts it can be rather confusing.

If changing the default A-B-C lens profiles doesn't improve the color balance I see in your example you could try changing the RGB values manually if you feel like playing around with it. To eliminate the greenish cast you need to increase the Red values (slightly) as well as cut back the Green value (slightly). To reduce the yellow cast you'd need to increase the Blue value (slightly). This can be a tedious process to get exacting results but it can be fun too. Mobius is the ONLY camera that will do this which is one of the reasons I enjoy the camera so much.

I would suggest driving to a spot where your car is facing a wall that has some broad white areas so you can have a known reference point or pointing the camera towards someplace in or around your house that is consistent so you can compare and adjust your results. Always having the same or very close lighting from adjustment to adjustment can be critical.

 

[Yooshaw]

Yes, extensively. Each lens type A-B-C adjusts the color balance to match the specific color characteristics of the lenses supplied by Mobius. Some aftermarket lenses can work fine with the default profiles and some don't. In fact, I noticed that the telephoto example you posted in kamakr1's thread has very poor color balance. It has a yellow and a green cast. I would definitely try the other two profiles and see if things improve. Virtually all decent quality dash cams are color balance tweaked for their supplied lenses. When you install an aftermarket lens you may or may not notice the difference depending on the match and blind luck of the draw.

If changing the default lens profile fails you can adjust manually. It can be tricky and time consuming. In my case, I happen to have a lengthy background in color correction in the photography, printing and pre-press industries so it's easier for me and I don't think I would have been able to do what I've done here with this IR lens otherwise, or at least so easily.

If changing the default A-B-C lens profiles doesn't improve the color balance I see in your example you could try changing the RGB values manually if you feel like playing around with it. To eliminate the greenish cast you need to increase the Red values (slightly) as well as cut back the Green value (slightly). To reduce the yellow cast you'd need to increase the Blue value (slightly). This can be a tedious process to get exacting results but it can be fun too. Mobius is the ONLY camera that will do this which is one of the reasons I enjoy the camera so much.

I would suggest driving to a spot where your car is facing a wall that has some broad white areas so you can have a known reference point or pointing the camera towards someplace in or around your house that is consistent so you can compare and adjust your results.

Wow, thanks so much for the detailed reply- I knew the colors were off but didn't know where to start, will work on it soon.

 

[Dashmellow]

Wow, thanks so much for the detailed reply- I knew the colors were off but didn't know where to start, will work on it soon.

You're welcome!

I'm going to repost the RGB graphic from my earlier post in this thread on this subject.



Many people have heard the term "White Balance" or have seen it in the menu on their cameras but don't really know what it means. All things being equal when RED - GREEN - BLUE (light) are mixed in perfect amounts you get WHITE. That's known as "White Balance". Unfortunately, it's not so simple. Many other factors come into play such as lens color, multi-coatings, sensor bias, processor characteristics and quirks, etc., etc., will have an effect. That is why camera manufacturers need to create a color profile to use with each lens they install on a given camera.

So, when you start fiddling around with the color balance controls on your Mobius, always remember that the goal is White Balance. If you can get WHITE to appear WHITE then everything else will fall into place. In a camera like the Mobius it may not be possible to get things perfect (for various reasons I won't go into just now) but if you can get anywhere near close to WHITE looking neutral you'll have what you're after. (same concept applies to neutral middle grey)

Edit: BTW, here's another tip. I mentioned that in order to decrease the YELLOW tint in your images you need to increase the BLUE. Notice in the color chart that YELLOW and BLUE are directly opposite from one another. I remember when I was learning this stuff decades ago you had to learn to think sort of backwards in regard to color balance. We students would all walk around all day muttering things to ourselves like, "Minus BLUE equals YELLOW!"

 

[Lola]

In the post of the lens description it says "1/3", is that the sensor size that is required? Is the Mobius 1 a 1/3 sensor? Does this mean that you have to buy a lens that is listed as 1/3 or is there some leeway?
Sorry but you and kamkar's discussions on this subject has gotten be excited !

 

[Lola]

How did I miss this thread? Great work - makes me wish I had left off the IR cut filters to my 8mm lens I added. One thing I notice at night is, even with my IR cut filter, I seem to be able to capture license plates much better than a standard dashcam when up close. I think this is becasue the zoomed picture creates an overall brighter picture, reducing the exposure time, making the plate more readable.

It would really be interesting to see your 8mm footage to compare with the 12mm if you have the time.

 

[Yooshaw]

It would really be interesting to see your 8mm footage to compare with the 12mm if you have the time.

I plan on it - I have two Mobiuses, both fitted with an 8mm lens. When I get a 12mm lens, I'll mount one in the car next to the 8mm lens for a comparison.

 

[Dashmellow]

In the post of the lens description it says "1/3", is that the sensor size that is required? Is the Mobius 1 a 1/3 sensor? Does this mean that you have to buy a lens that is listed as 1/3 or is there some leeway?
Sorry but you and kamkar's discussions on this subject has gotten be excited !

Every lens creates an image in the shape of a circle that is called the "Circle of Coverage" (sometimes also called Circle of Illumination). The circle thrown by the lens needs to be large enough to cover the entire rectangle of the image sensor. Too small and it will cut off at the corners (vignetting). If the lens makes a circle that is too large for the sensor of the camera it is mounted on there is no problem at all but it will have the effect of giving the lens more of a telephoto effect than it already might have because the lens is only using the center of its circle of coverage on the smaller sensor.

One side effect of having a lens that throws a much bigger circle of coverage than the sensor it is being used on, aside from the apparent telephoto effect is that the images will generally be sharper and more optically corrected. Since lenses are curved, most of them, except for a select very expensive few are sharper and more optically corrected nearer the center than at the edges. So, if the sensor is only seeing the middle section of the circle of coverage then it is only using the section of the optical surface that is performing the best.

So, to answer your question, yes, this varifocal lens is designed for use on a sensor up to 1/3" in size, as you mention. The sensor in the Mobius is the Aptina AR0330 which happens to be 1/3", so it's a good match!

 

[TonyM]

I'm starting to think about replacing the A lens in my Mobius 1 with a telephoto. To save me from wading through the thousands of posts on DCT and RCG I might ask you for some lens suggestions.

 

[Dashmellow]

I'm starting to think about replacing the A lens in my Mobius 1 with a telephoto. To save me from wading through the thousands of posts on DCT and RCG I might ask you for some lens suggestions.

I'm happy to provide any feedback and general suggestions I can but I haven't really explored in depth the individual products that are on the market these days.

 

[Lola]

Every lens creates an image in the shape of a circle that is called the "Circle of Coverage" (sometimes also called Circle of Illumination). The circle thrown by the lens needs to be large enough to cover the entire rectangle of the image sensor. Too small and it will cut off at the corners (vignetting). If the lens makes a circle that is too large for the sensor of the camera it is mounted on there is no problem at all but it will have the effect of giving the lens more of a telephoto effect than it already might have because the lens is only using the center of its circle of coverage on the smaller sensor.

One side effect of having a lens that throws a much bigger circle of coverage than the sensor it is being used on, aside from the apparent telephoto effect is that the images will generally be sharper and more optically corrected. Since lenses are curved, most of them, except for a select very expensive few are sharper and more optically corrected nearer the center than at the edges. So, if the sensor is only seeing the middle section of the circle of coverage then it is only using the section of the optical surface that is performing the best.

So, to answer your question is yes, this varifocal lens is designed for use on a sensor up t0 1/3" in size, as you mention. The sensor in the Mobius is the Aptina AR0330 which happens to be 1/3", so it's a good match!

View attachment 33361

Your knowledge is amazing. You and kamkar1 should start a business!
I've been looking at regular M12 lenses in the 8 to 12mm fl. I would think that the sensor is an integral part of the camera and can't be upgraded (I don't know) is this correct? With a new M12 lens 1/3 what else is needed in the way of an IR filter and lens housing (CPL ?)?
This is moderately confusing subject but I'm getting it, the sensor descriptions like 1/3 really are only names that depict a certain size sensor, this almost drove me nuts till I figured it out. I kept thinking the numbers had some reality to them, but they didn't, just specific sizes.

Is there anything I need to look out for in looking at these lenses. They talk about board lenses which seem to be the same as the regular M12's is this correct ? Sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to pick up all the information as fast as I can.

 

[Lola]

I plan on it - I have two Mobiuses, both fitted with an 8mm lens. When I get a 12mm lens, I'll mount one in the car next to the 8mm lens for a comparison.

That will really be great, I am looking forward to seeing the comparison.

 

[SawMaster]

I'm astonished at the detail you can pick up, even tiny lettering

This is the quality I most seek here. My state has only rear plates so I need excellent ability to capture a drivers face behind me as I will have little help from LE who after a hit-and-run will only say "we can't go check out every silver 2015 Prius until we find the right one and then the owner will just deny it was them driving so we cam't prosecute" but with a clear face pic that gives positive ID and they now have something solid to work with And we've got a lot of folks using stolen or out-of-state plates which can't be traced to the current owner giving the same problem. While it's generally enough to capture the big picture to prove your innocence, with this amount of detail possible (and easy) it becomes a 'must have' Whether a fixed zoom or this variable one, detail capture has never been so good. This is broadcast-quality video. No factory cams have offered this amount of detail which is why I've never been big on the idea of capturing details since there wasn't a lot of improvement to be had, but that has now changed and this is a big leap forward compared to the past

Phil

 

[SawMaster]

I would think that the sensor is an integral part of the camera and can't be upgraded (I don't know) is this correct?

Effectively yes. Hardware and software changes would be needed for a sensor change and while it could be done, it would be far easier to just use a cam with the sensor you want as the basis for a zoom cam lens change project

Phil

 

[Lola]

This is the quality I most seek here. My state has only rear plates so I need excellent ability to capture a drivers face behind me as I will have little help from LE who after a hit-and-run will only say "we can't go check out every silver 2015 Prius until we find the right one and then the owner will just deny it was them driving so we cam't prosecute" but with a clear face pic that gives positive ID and they now have something solid to work with And we've got a lot of folks using stolen or out-of-state plates which can't be traced to the current owner giving the same problem. While it's generally enough to capture the big picture to prove your innocence, with this amount of detail possible (and easy) it becomes a 'must have' Whether a fixed zoom or this variable one, detail capture has never been so good. This is broadcast-quality video. No factory cams have offered this amount of detail which is why I've never been big on the idea of capturing details since there wasn't a lot of improvement to be had, but that has now changed and this is a big leap forward compared to the past

Phil

Exactly how I see things, especially living in Frederick Maryland! You covered the need very well.

 

[Yooshaw]

That will really be great, I am looking forward to seeing the comparison.

I'm going to try these two 12mm lens. My 8mm lenses are the "Witrue" brand, and I've been happy with them - given the price. There is a Witrue brand on Ali, but it lacks some details on the specs and don't want to chance it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Who...5.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.277.bYIQjq

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HD-...5.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.262.bYIQjq

 

[Dashmellow]

I'm going to try these two 12mm lens. My 8mm lenses are the "Witrue" brand, and I've been happy with them - given the price. There is a Witrue brand on Ali, but it lacks some details on the specs and don't want to chance it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Who...5.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.277.bYIQjq

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HD-...5.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.262.bYIQjq

I'm not sure what "happy with them - given the price" means exactly but you won't get much in the way of optical performance for $2.39. The old saying, "You get what you pay for" will apply here even of it seems like such lenses give you a clear image.
My philosophy is that you don't have to spend a fortune but buying the cheapest thing you can find is usually not the best approach.

 

[Yooshaw]

I'm not sure what "happy with them - given the price" means exactly but you won't get much in the way of optical performance for $2.39. The old saying, "You get what you pay for" will apply here even of it seems like such lenses give you a clear image.
My philosophy is that you don't have to spend a fortune but buying the cheapest thing you can find is usually not the best approach.

Don't disagree - like I said it meets my needs. I've had two 8mm lens similar to these for over a year now and they are working fine.

 

[Lola]

I'm not sure what "happy with them - given the price" means exactly but you won't get much in the way of optical performance for $2.39. The old saying, "You get what you pay for" will apply here even of it seems like such lenses give you a clear image.
My philosophy is that you don't have to spend a fortune but buying the cheapest thing you can find is usually not the best approach.

I definitely agree with you, but when dealing in China how do you know who makes quality lenses (what companies ?). I've been looking around for several days now and can tell you that some of the Internet advertisers are getting their lenses from China and pushing their prices up as high as they think people will pay, It is extremely frustrating.
If you know of a China manufacture making quality lenses I would really appreciate their name. There are a couple of guys here who travel to China on business somewhat often, hopefully they will read these post and help out the people looking for such companies in China, if they know of any.

 

[SawMaster]

Looks like this will be the lens for me, thanks @Dashmellow Can't afford the one @Kamkar is using From some reading on DIY nightvision I'm not sure what my results will be using a G1W-HC for the cam as it lacks most of the color adjustment Mobius has. Now waiting for the slow boat to sail over here

Phil

 

[Dashmellow]

Looks like this will be the lens for me, thanks @Dashmellow Can't afford the one @Kamkar is using From some reading on DIY nightvision I'm not sure what my results will be using a G1W-HC for the cam as it lacks most of the color adjustment Mobius has. Now waiting for the slow boat to sail over here

Phil

I hope you ordered the cheaper one I mentioned in post #15 as I believe it to be the same lens. Either way, I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with it. Without the Mobius' ability to adjust the RGB values you'll never by able to get results like I've been showing but you know that already. Another challenge with the G1W-HC may be focusing which I've been doing in web cam mode on the Mobius. Maybe eventually you can save up and buy another Mobius? Anyway, Banggood has gotten WAY better with their shipping lately. Every recent order has shipped within one day of ordering and arrives in 16 days or less.

I've been planning to do some night testing with IR illumination but I've been going flat out lately and somehow every night I've been too wiped out to do what I have in mind which means getting all set up with the tripod and all the other gear. Maybe in the next few days. I have a really beautiful red fox that's been hanging around my house several times a day and I hope to capture him on camera. This fox hangs around my house so much he almost feels like a pet. Last night he was outside my house barking at something out in the field.