Mobius Varifocal Zoom IR

Don't disagree - like I said it meets my needs. I've had two 8mm lens similar to these for over a year now and they are working fine.
Amazed that these cheap , very cheap lens with the Mobius produce such good images. Thnks for all your work .
 
@Dashmellow about the 2 lenses I have not exactly understood which lens you did receive, you mentioned the 3MP listed as the 2Mp, but there seems to be other differences, such as (printed on the label):
3MP 5.60$-> 1/2.5" 1:1/4 weight 25.6 g
2MP 7.49$-> 1/2.7" 1:1/4 weight 38 g
 
@Dashmellow about the 2 lenses I have not exactly understood which lens you did receive, you mentioned the 3MP listed as the 2Mp, but there seems to be other differences, such as (printed on the label):
3MP 5.60$-> 1/2.5" 1:1/4 weight 25.6 g
2MP 7.49$-> 1/2.7" 1:1/4 weight 38 g

Apparently, whichever one you order they will ship you the 3MP 1/2.5" ƒ1.4 version. Best to order the cheap one.
 
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Amazed that these cheap , very cheap lens with the Mobius produce such good images. Thnks for all your work .

I think you may be confused about which lenses you are commenting about since you are quoting @Yooshaw's remarks. The one example that @Yooshaw presents here from his cheap 8mm lens from AliExpress doesn't tell us much nor is it especially impressive in any significant way. All the other examples in this thread are from a very different 2.8mm - 12mm (ƒ1.4) zoom lens used in my IR project. The optical qualities of the zoom lens are quite remarkable for the money but then again I've found the same lens selling elsewhere for as much as $20 USD. Even at 20 dollars it is an optical bargain.

Anyway, as for all the work, thank you, you're welcome! :)
 
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I got the one in the OP :rolleyes: It was late for me and my brain was foggy from TMI at that hour. No biggie on the price and I guess we will get to see what another lens is like :) On doing a search there for "12mm lens" a 1MP 720P IP cam popped up with a similar style lens for under $20. I wasn't sure 1MP would match the sensor (Kamkar1 had mentioned something about that) plus the listing said that no IT cut filter could be adapted to that one. Being that I can use an IP cam here at home I thought about a two-way lens swap between that and the -HC giving me 2 working cams in the deal :D Maybe later.

While I'm very interested in the IR aspect, for now a usable zoom dashcam will make for a good start. I'm thinking that may require an IR cut filter so I'm wondering if one can be fitted to my new lens? I'll snag another Mobius when I can but I finally put the WR-1 in the van temporarily to see how it does in the heat. If it pans out, then it can replace the Mobius for my front cam freeing it up for experimenting ;) I still need to get a tablet PC so that is where the next chunk of money will be going. After that I can get deeper into seeing what can be done to make an IR cam setup like I want. Time for more coffee and to get off to work!

Phil
 
Every lens creates an image in the shape of a circle that is called the "Circle of Coverage" (sometimes also called Circle of Illumination). The circle thrown by the lens needs to be large enough to cover the entire rectangle of the image sensor. Too small and it will cut off at the corners (vignetting). If the lens makes a circle that is too large for the sensor of the camera it is mounted on there is no problem at all but it will have the effect of giving the lens more of a telephoto effect than it already might have because the lens is only using the center of its circle of coverage on the smaller sensor.

One side effect of having a lens that throws a much bigger circle of coverage than the sensor it is being used on, aside from the apparent telephoto effect is that the images will generally be sharper and more optically corrected. Since lenses are curved, most of them, except for a select very expensive few are sharper and more optically corrected nearer the center than at the edges. So, if the sensor is only seeing the middle section of the circle of coverage then it is only using the section of the optical surface that is performing the best.

So, to answer your question, yes, this varifocal lens is designed for use on a sensor up t0 1/3" in size, as you mention. The sensor in the Mobius is the Aptina AR0330 which happens to be 1/3", so it's a good match!

View attachment 33361

Is this the answer to my problem are misunderstanding. I forgot you showed this and explained the sensor relationship to the image thrown by the lens. If this is the case and the manufactures saying I want 2/5 or whatever is he trying to help? Using this approach it would be beneficial for me to order a lens with a larger thrown image then 1/3 format.

If you say so this is what I will do, but I read elsewhere that when the lens image is larger then the sensor image format it can cause blur in the image, but it didn't explain why, wear as your explanation does explain that the larger image of bigger lens picture will cause the format to use the center of the sensor producing a sharper image and the larger image will also fill the sensor eliminating the chance of vignetting. Is this correct?

Only question I can think of is where does the extra light from the thrown lens image go when it surpasses the area necessary for the sensor size?

Oh, the cost of two lenses as described was $5.00 for each piece, I was going to order 2 lenses with different fl (8mm and 12mm). After they told me this, I really got worried, how in heck is $5.00 going to buy a good lens?
 
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Is this the answer to my problem are misunderstanding. I forgot you showed this and explained the sensor relationship to the image thrown by the lens. If this is the case and the manufactures saying I want 2/5 or whatever is he trying to help? Using this approach it would be beneficial for me to order a lens with a larger thrown image then 1/3 format.

If you say so this is what I will do, but I read elsewhere that when the lens image is larger then the sensor image format it can cause blur in the image, but it didn't explain why, wear as your explanation does explain that the larger image of bigger lens picture will cause the format to use the center of the sensor producing a sharper image and the larger image will also fill the sensor eliminating the chance of vignetting. Is this correct?

Only question I can think of is where does the extra light from the thrown lens image go when it surpasses the area necessary for the sensor size?

Oh, the cost of two lenses as described was $5.00 for each piece, I was going to order 2 lenses with different fl (8mm and 12mm). After they told me this, I really got worried, how in heck is $5.00 going to buy a good lens?

There is no logical reason why a lens that throws a larger image would cause an image to be blurry. As for "where does the extra light from the thrown lens image go"? It simply gets absorbed by the black inner lining of the lens barrel. Higher quality lenses are designed and built to make certain that the inner lining of the lens is indeed a solid matte black so that the extraneous light gets absorbed rather than scattering and bouncing around inside the lens barrel. In fact, ALL lenses throw a circle of coverage that is bigger than the film plane or sensor no matter how big the circle is, so all lenses need to deal with this issue. High quality lenses also have multi-coated front surface elements as well in order to minimize the scattering of light inside the barrel as it enters the lens.

If a lens is poorly made and not properly treated to prevent light from scattering around inside the barrel, the result will be an image with lower contrast and a loss of finer details. Same goes for cheaper lenses that do not have multi-coated lens surfaces.

For these reasons and others $5.00 lenses are likely to provide crappy performance. Cheap $5.00 lenses are often made from molded lens elements rather the optically ground elements; they are also often made from plastic lens elements rather than glass and often the barrels of these cheap lenses will be made from plastic rather than precision machined metal.
 
Excellent work @Dashmellow. One of the best threads I've ever seen on this site. Thanks for the education.

I think I'm going to order a couple of the 3Mp you recommended from banggood for my Mobius (and probably add another one too).

Couple questions:
- Do you advise adding tracking and insurance, etc? I have never ordered anything from China before.
- Any recommendations on an IR cut filter? I want to have that around in case the night footage may pose a problem. Below are a couple clips of night footage without IR filter from @dirkzelf, but I'm not sure how similar/different things would look with your recommened settings.

Again, awesome work.

 
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Excellent work @Dashmellow. One of the best threads I've ever seen on this site. Thanks for the education.

I think I'm going to order a couple of the 3Mp you recommended from banggood for my Mobius (and probably add another one too).

Couple questions:
- Do you advise adding tracking and insurance, etc? I have never ordered anything from China before.
- Any recommendations on an IR cut filter? I want to have that around in case the night footage may pose a problem. Below are a couple clips of night footage without IR filter from @dirkzelf, but I'm not sure how similar/different things would look with your recommened settings.

Again, awesome work.


I'm not so completely sure anymore the B/W is w/o IR filter, but it IS recorded in mono.... Interesting nevertheless.
 
@M Basta - Did you do any adjustments for the second vid or are the cam setting that same for both vids? The first vid gives better sharpness on brighter objects; I can easily read the signs. The second vid shows more overall but bright objects lack sharpness; I can't read the signs. Overall the second vid is more to my liking.

Phil
 
@M Basta - Did you do any adjustments for the second vid or are the cam setting that same for both vids? The first vid gives better sharpness on brighter objects; I can easily read the signs. The second vid shows more overall but bright objects lack sharpness; I can't read the signs. Overall the second vid is more to my liking.

Phil

I have to defer to @dirkzelf as both clips are his. I haven’t done this mod yet.
 
Excellent work @Dashmellow. One of the best threads I've ever seen on this site. Thanks for the education.

I think I'm going to order a couple of the 3Mp you recommended from banggood for my Mobius (and probably add another one too).

Couple questions:
- Do you advise adding tracking and insurance, etc? I have never ordered anything from China before.
- Any recommendations on an IR cut filter? I want to have that around in case the night footage may pose a problem. Below are a couple clips of night footage without IR filter from @dirkzelf, but I'm not sure how similar/different things would look with your recommened settings.

Again, awesome work.


Thanks so much for your kind words about the thread, very much appreciated.

Firstly, about Banggood, I've been ordering from them for years and have never used anything other than their free shipping with no tracking (other that what they provide on the website) and no insurance. Nothing has ever failed to arrive. Once, an item arrived broken and after I sent a photo they promptly sent a replacement. The problem with Banggood is in the past they have had a propensity to sell goods that they claimed were in stock but turned out not to be. Then you would get charged for a back-ordered item and could get stuck waiting for a product that might not show up for a long time. I even gave up ordering from them for a long time because of it but decided to try again and they seem to have dramatically improved how they handle things. Over the last several months I've ordered multiple items from them on several occasions and each time when an item page said it was in stock the parcel was shipped the next day with email notification and arrives like clockwork in 16 days or less here in New England. You can order from them with confidence. Also, they now have a presence here on DCT so if something goes wrong you can get help here plus they have their email customer service on the website. If ordering low cost items, insurance is probably not a worthwhile investment anyway and to me it's always been worth taking a chance. Many Chinese vendors try really hard to do a good job and provide good service even if they drop the ball now and again.

As for IR cut filters, I'm still exploring the possibilities, so I'll have to get back about that. With this varifocal lens the rear element will probably require a 9.5 to 10mm IR-cut filter. The problem is that the rear lens element is deeply recessed so installation or removal will be tricky and I'm still devising a strategy. eBay has some decent low cost IR-cut filter options (mostly from China). Truth be told, I'm having so much fun with my color balancing mods, the IR cut filter has been on the back burner for now.

@dirkzelf's videos look pretty cool! How could I have missed those? As for my recommended settings they would work to a degree for the video where the default color is magenta, except the settings would need to be tweaked for his particular lens.

As for the black and white footage, obviously the camera is set to B&W so none of my recommended RGB adjustments would have any effect at all. The sharpness and contrast settings would have an effect but they might not be appropriate for the B&W setting or this particular lens. If you want to shoot B&W like this you'll need to experiment. The saturation setting would not likely have any effect on a B&W image either.

Finally, I would start by ordering just one of these lenses and see how things go and then perhaps order another one later once you see what it can do and how you like it.
 
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Thanks so much for you kind words about the thread, very much appreciated.

Firstly, about Banggood, I've been ordering from them for years and have never used anything other than their free shipping with no tracking (other that what they provide on the website) and no insurance. Nothing has ever failed to arrive. Once, an item arrived broken and after I sent a photo they promptly sent a replacement. The problem with Banggood is in the past they have had a prosperity to sell goods that they claimed were in stock but turned out not to be. Then you would get charged for a back-ordered item and could get stuck waiting for a product that might not show up for a long time. I even gave up ordering from them for a long time because of it but decided to try again and they seem to have dramatically improved how they handle things. Over the last several months I've ordered multiple items from them on several occasions and each time when an item page said it was in stock the parcel was shipped the next day with email notification and arrives like clockwork in 16 days or less here in New England. You can order from them with confidence. Also, they now have a presence here on DCT so if something goes wrong you can get help here plus they have their email customer service on the website. If ordering low cost items, insurance is probably not a worthwhile investment anyway and to me it's always been worth taking a chance. Many Chinese vendors try really hard to do a good job and provide good service even if they drop the ball now and again.

As for IR cut filters, I'm still exploring the possibilities, so I'll have to get back about that. With this varifocal lens the rear element will probably require a 9.5 to 10mm IR-cut filter. The problem is that the rear lens element is deeply recessed so installation or removal will be tricky and I'm still devising a strategy. eBay has some decent low cost IR-cut filter options (mostly from China). Truth be told, I'm having so much fun with my color balancing mods, the IR cut filter has been on the back burner for now.

@dirkzelf's videos look pretty cool! How could I have missed those? As for my recommended settings they would work to a degree for the video where the default color is magenta, except the settings would need to be tweaked for his particular lens.

As for the black and white footage, obviously the camera is set to B&W so none of my recommended RGB adjustments would have any effect at all. The sharpness and contrast settings would have an effect but they might not be appropriate for the B&W setting or this particular lens. If you want to shoot B&W like this you'll need to experiment. The saturation setting would not likely have any effect on a B&W image either.

Finally, I would start by ordering just one of these lenses and see how things go and then perhaps order another one later once you see what it can do and how you like it.

Excellent. Thanks.

On the filter, I found a guy who looks like he used a 9.5mm judging by the old eBay link in his description below. I’ll post a link if I find and order one to test, but, with your settings, I get the feeling I might not even need/want it.

 
Excellent. Thanks.

On the filter, I found a guy who looks like he used a 9.5mm judging by the old eBay link in his description below. I’ll post a link if I find and order one to test, but, with your settings, I get the feeling I might not even need/want it.


My settings are ONLY for when you don't use an IR-Cut filter, but of course, if you use the filter you'll have natural color as with any normal camera.

That guy! Somewhere here I wrote a whole critique about this video quite some time ago. The guy more or less has no idea what he is talking about. I don't have time to review it again at the moment and I haven't seen it in a long time but I remember he said and did some off the wall things in his video even if there is some useful info in there somewhere.

Anyway, here are some eBay links to 9.5mm IR-Cut filters. There are plenty to chose from. Other types and wavelengths are available elsewhere.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162525591349
https://www.ebay.com/itm/292167740868 (Malaysian vendor)

eBay 9.5mm search results:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=9.5mm+IR+cut+filter&_sacat=0
 
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....
Firstly, about Banggood, I've been ordering from them for years and have never used anything other than their free shipping with no tracking (other that what they provide on the website) and no insurance. Nothing has ever failed to arrive. Once, an item arrived broken and after I sent a photo they promptly sent a replacement. The problem with Banggood is in the past they have had a prosperity to sell goods that they claimed were in stock but turned out not to be. Then you would get charged for a back-ordered item and could get stuck waiting for a product that might not show up for a long time. I even gave up ordering from them for a long time because of it but decided to try again and they seem to have dramatically improved how they handle things. .....
Fully agree on bangood, same experience. I also choose free and no tracking (so I can save few buck to get MORE gadgets..it's becoming an addiction)
 
Just subscribe to YouTube channel dirkzelf, you'll never miss any again.....

;)

If you don't link to your videos on DCT I probably would never see them. I look at things on YouTube but don't subscribe to much of it. I did find the IR videos interesting, especially in context with this thread, although to be honest with you I couldn't sit through two half hour videos of that sort of thing. I really enjoyed the sound tracks you chose though as they gave the clips a cinematic feel that got me to watch for longer than I might have otherwise. :)
 
@Dashmellow about the 2 lenses I have not exactly understood which lens you did receive, you mentioned the 3MP listed as the 2Mp, but there seems to be other differences, such as (printed on the label):
3MP 5.60$-> 1/2.5" 1:1/4 weight 25.6 g
2MP 7.49$-> 1/2.7" 1:1/4 weight 38 g

Just a quick update. I ordered from banggood the 2mp lens that @Dashmellow mentioned. And I received a 2mp lens not a 3 mp lens. So it may be worthwhile to order the 3 mp one


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk Pro
 
Just a quick update. I ordered from banggood the 2mp lens that @Dashmellow mentioned. And I received a 2mp lens not a 3 mp lens. So it may be worthwhile to order the 3 mp one


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I'm very surprised and sorry to hear that as so many including me report receiving the 3MP. Maybe if you contact Banggood and mention that you ordered based on reports in the feedack section in your message they will work something out with you. Even if not, the 2MP lens should be fine on this sensor. I don't think you will see much of a difference.

Thanks for reporting this so others will know.
 
If you don't link to your videos on DCT I probably would never see them. I look at things on YouTube but don't subscribe to much of it. I did find the IR videos interesting, especially in context with this thread, although to be honest with you I couldn't sit through two half hour videos of that sort of thing. I really enjoyed the sound tracks you chose though as they gave the clips a cinematic feel that got me to watch for longer than I might have otherwise. :)

Yeah it's a bit long, but I also liked the music in combination with it. Sort of calms me down after a day's trucking in our busy and nuts traffic.....hahaha.

What do you mean with linking to dct? How's that work?
 
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