Adorama has the WR1 for $69+FS but is on backorder.

DT MI

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Reported my posts for stating facts and exposing you? Is this part of damage control? Reporting just makes people even more suspicious of you, your company, and your motives. People with valid arguments debate, as I am doing. People without them report and try to censor.

As for your husbands job, managing budgets and contracts is not managing people. Two completely different things. Budgets and contracts don't need training, coaching or discipline, They don't take excessive breaks or call in sick. I just don't believe an absentee manager can be an effective manager.

Everyone knows outsourced CS has a reputation for being a bad thing. Hard to understand accents and language barriers and CS reps who go by a script with no power to actually resolve or escalate problems. The only reason companies outsource customer service is to save money. Guess what, I am not waking up at 2:00 AM to call customer service so what does CS being 12 hours different than me help? Discover credit card and even your competitor B & H make it a point to say that their customer service is in the USA. Why would they do that if outsourced CS is such a good thing?

Reported my posts for stating facts and exposing you?...
Or maybe it was because of this:

1. Treat other members with respect. While debating and heated discussion is fine, we will not tolerate personal attacks, rudeness or inflammatory posts.

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/forum-rules.319/
 

HelenOster

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Or maybe it was because of this:

1. Treat other members with respect. While debating and heated discussion is fine, we will not tolerate personal attacks, rudeness or inflammatory posts.

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/forum-rules.319/

or

Since this an international forum, "bashing" of any nation, people, individuals, ethnic groups, race or minorities is prohibited (even your own country). This includes any insulting imagery of any people(s) or nation.
 

Whatatay

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Fascinating thread. Good, honest debates and I learned some stuff about the retail side of things that I didn't know before.

That's what I though too but have been labeled an attacker with posts worthy of being reported.

Bottom line here though is that it appears that big retailers like Adorama will have to introduce more personalized "handling" of warranty cases on Chinese dashcams if they want to capture an audience that's already accustomed to that type of service from the smaller retailers we know here on DCT. It's now clear to me that "service" comes at an added upfront premium (not too dissimilar to the "bundled" sd card). That added premium is not necessarily unreasonable if the service is good, but I would like a discounted option if I don't want it.

My guess is that a retailer the size of Adorama wouldn't change their current policies on this, so if they instead offer the same product at a lower price point with the explicit understanding that it's the customer responsibility to handle the warranty process, then I think that's a great alternative for customers. Options are good. However, if there's no price incentive (i.e. if retailer X is offering WR1 at $99 with warranty service, and retailer Y sells at the same price but doesn't provide that added level of service beyond 30 days), then obviously there's little/no incentive to buy there.

I agree 100% with Helen's stance on how Adorama does warranty service. It is the same for almost all retailers (OCD and SpyTek being among the exceptions). If I buy a Samsung TV from Walmart and it goes bad after the 90 day return period, I have to deal with Samsung to get warranty service. Samsung is big enough to have warranty service centers in the USA but Viofo understandably is not. It is up to the consumer to research the warranty before buying if that concerns them.

SpyTek and OCD are the exception to the rule and are going above and beyond by providing USA warranty service . However, you have to remember they are dealing with a very small and specific group of products. Adorama is dealing with 150,000 product lines. Do you really expect them to have technicians who know how to fix all those different products? They would have to mark up their prices thousands of times higher to pay for them. If you mean they should just give you a new replacement, that's up to the manufacturer. We are comparing apples to oranges here.

Now if you think Adorama should make an exception for Chinese dash cams I don't think that is reasonable. It is only a very small percentage of their business as they still aren't a common item for most people to buy. Then if they were going to do it for Chinese dash cams what about all their other Chinese products? First they would have to determine whether the company has USA warranty service or if it has to be shipped back to China. Then they would have to find out if other companies selling the same products provide USA warranty service. Adorama would have to hire a million people to research all this.

Even to say Adorama should offer a lower price because they don't provide warranty service is not reasonable. No other retailers do that. Again, they would have to research every product they sell to see if other retailers are providing warranty service to know which ones to lower prices on. That's not realistic. Now, if I see an item like the WR1 priced the same at Adorama with China warranty service as at OCD with USA warranty service, of course I am going to buy from OCD, but that is my job to do the research and determine which retailer is better to buy from. Just like researching for the lowest price is up to the consumer. If I buy a product from Walmart and then come home and find out it is cheaper at Amazon, is that Walmart's fault? Is it Amazon's fault? No it is mine for not researching the price.

It will be interesting to see how all of this unfolds, and how certain retailers choose to proceed ... not just on this product, but any upcoming products, from any manufacturer.

I'll be watching.

The original issue that started all the debate was Adorama selling the camera at a price reported to be below cost. Some people assumed it was because they didn't provide the warranty service like OCD and SpyTek do. Others thought it might be a pricing mistake, loss leader, or bait and switch.

The fact is we don't know why the price was $69. Helen said the pricing is a complex thing.
 

Whatatay

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You clearly have NO concept of what my job involves.

Why don't you email me: Helen@adorama.com and tell me exactly why you have such a downer on me? You don't know me, you've never been privvy to a copy of my job description; you have never sought Customer Service assistance from me.
Yet you exhibit strong indicators that you have a completely irrational and inexplicable hatred for me.

Completely untrue Helen. Did I not thank you for coming here? Have I not sided with you, especially on how Adorama handles warranties? Have I called you names or insulted you? I don't hate you or even dislike you. I think you are great for coming here to give your side of the story. From positive reviews I have read it is you who is the one who resolves the issues. If I was a customer of Adorama and had an issue, you are the person I would want helping me. I am impressed with how you are able to debate and make you points when 99.999999% of any other online debate would have turned into insults and name calling, yet you have been professional through out it all.

If you were able to come here and explain the $69 price for the WR1 I think that would have cleared things up. The problem is that the readers of this forum weren't dealing in speculation. They were told by a Viofo and a seller that $69 is below cost and that no WR1 were shipped to you or would be shipped to you.

So you see, we have two completely opposite conflicting scenarios, with supposedly reliable sources on both sides. How can that be? I just see some things that don't add up so am debating them with you. Your explanations have changed my mind on some things and I am just trying to get to the bottom of all this.

I apologize and am sincerely sorry if I have offended you or given you the impression that I hate you. Any problems I have are with what is being discussed and not with you. I am happy you are here and again thank you for taking the time to talk with us.
 

Whatatay

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Once again, you are incorrect. Actually, we DO care about our customers. And we care passionately about photography. Which is why we offer completely free classes via Adorama TV and the Adorama Learning Center.

(Seeing a pattern, here?)

Looks like I need to remind you: Adorama is listed as one of the top five electronics retailers by Consumer Reports, “Best of the Web” by Forbes.com, Internet Retailers Top 100, and is the official Electronics Retailer of the NY Giants.

If you care about your customers than you aren't that big of a company, relatively speaking. What are your annual sales? Are you a Fortune 100 or 500 company?
 

Dashmellow

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How do you know they will get one when in stock? Do you work for Adorama so have the authority to make such a statement?

As for the K20D, it was already stated here by Viofo that $69 for the WR1 is below cost but Helen says they are not losing money on the deal. Helen said their cost of part of a complex process so maybe the same applied to the K20D.

You've been a member here for three years with all of 78 posts under your belt, yet 36 of your posts (48% of them!) have been here in this thread alone and virtually all of them have been adversarial, provocative and accusatory regardless of the responses from me, others and especially @HelenOster from Adorama who has gone above and beyond the call of duty in replying to you with comprehensive, straightforward and thoughtful answers. And once you receive those answers you then accused her of "damage control", although Adorama has done absolutely nothing in any way egregious that needs defending.

It is not clear what your agenda is as you have never been a customer of Adorama's and all of your venom is based on unverifiable internet hearsay. On the one hand you claim the reviews you find online about Adoroama are "fake", yet you then turn around and use negative reviews left about Adorama as fodder for your attacks, as if only positive reviews tend to be fabricated but negative reviews are always "authentic".

You are merely a lowly TROLL with a questionable agenda and I for one am not willing to engage with you any further. No doubt others feel that way too at this point.
 
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Whatatay

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Or maybe it was because of this:

1. Treat other members with respect. While debating and heated discussion is fine, we will not tolerate personal attacks, rudeness or inflammatory posts.

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/forum-rules.319/

"Maybe because of this" should have shown a post of mine that violated the rules along with a link to the rules. I could say I reported your posts because it rained yesterday but one doesn't have to do with the other.
 

Whatatay

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or

Since this an international forum, "bashing" of any nation, people, individuals, ethnic groups, race or minorities is prohibited (even your own country). This includes any insulting imagery of any people(s) or nation.

OMG you are really stretching it. Do you work for CNN? Did they send you here? Fake news.
 

Whatatay

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You been a member here for three years with all of 78 posts under your belt, yet 36 of your posts (48% of them!) have been here in this thread alone and virtually all of them have been adversarial, provocative and accusatory regardless of the responses from me, others and especially @HelenOster from Adorama who has gone above and beyond the call of duty in replying to you with comprehensive, straightforward and thoughtful answers. And once you receive those answers you then accused her of "damage control", although Adorama has done absolutely nothing in any way egregious that needs defending.

It is not clear what your agenda is as you have never been a customer of Adorama's and all of your venom is based on unverifiable internet hearsay. On the one hand you claim the reviews you find online about Adoroama are "fake", yet you then turn around and use negative reviews left about Adorama as fodder for your attacks, as if only positive reviews tend to be fabricated but negative reviews are always "authentic".

You are merely a lowly TROLL with a questionable agenda and I for one am not willing to engage with you any further. No doubt other feel that way too at this point.

Why did you quote my message and then not answer it but instead go off on some tirade with insulting accusations based on irrelevant information? What is your agenda?
 

Dashmellow

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I'm dodging severe thunderstorms up here on my little mountain but I figured I could sneak online briefly without getting zapped. It's great to live in an age where I can use an app to see exactly how many minutes it will be until all hell breaks loose! :joyful:

Apparently, we will not be seeing Mr. Whatatay for about a month. Hopefully, if he should decide to return he will be on better behavior.

We shall see. :)

thatguyfromtheinternet.jpg

Uh-Oh! Here comes the storm!!! I'm outa' here!
 

HelenOster

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I'm delighted to be able to confirm that, following discussions with our Purchasing Team and VIOFO, Adorama Camera WILL be supporting full warranty service for all VIOFO products purchased from us.
Which means, you can now order in confidence from a business of over 35 years standing - the world’s only full-service destination for photo, video and electronics.
Whether you want to print a wedding album, sell an old piece of equipment or rent a camera for a weekend getaway, Adorama can help. We even have entire departments set up just to train, inspire and teach.

But most important, you can be assured that we actively listen to what our customers are saying to us, responding as quickly as possible to meet your needs and requirements.

BTW, if you ever have any concern that you can't resolve, or simply a query about Adorama products or service, you are always most welcome to message me directly.

Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
Helen@adorama.com
 

H-508

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^nice. Now adorama just has to get the product in a reasonable time to fill my back order :)
 

HelenOster

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^nice. Now adorama just has to get the product in a reasonable time to fill my back order :)

And that is in the hands of VIOFO - whose representative on this board was quick to imply they might not send us any pieces, but sloooow to respond to my query:(
 

Liber8

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I was trying to read through this mess. While I do think it's awesome that OCD honors Viofos 1 year warranty for their american customers, this is definitely not the norm. Once you get past the 30 days (or whatever) store return policy, very few stores are going to allow returns or honor a manufacturers warranty. And they shouldn't have to. Manufacturers warranty means the manufacturer covers it, expecting the store to cover it is kind of greedy unless you are paying them for this service. It would still be cheaper than having your own dedicated service centers in every country you sell in. If you want to be seen as a quality brand that people can trust then you really need to offer in-country service. Expecting folks to ship stuff to China is not going to get you a huge sales base or classy reputation. People view this as cheap chinese product tactics. Again, I love how OCD Tronic acts as Viofo's american support. I hope you get compensated for this. It seems like Adorama is now offering full warranty support on Viofo products. I'm guessing the initial dispute was that Viofo wanted Adorama to offer this out of the goodness of their heart and Adorama was like, heck no we want something in return?

And yes it does suck having to pay to send stuff back to China for warranty support. That's why I personally never buy expensive items from places like Gearbest or Banggood. Unless the company has support centers in your country it's unwise to buy such items. It's not cheap shipping to China and from what I've heard, tracking pretty much goes dead once the package hits China. So the company could always claim they never got it (Gearbest i'm looking at you).
 

HelenOster

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While I do think it's awesome that OCD honors Viofos 1 year warranty for their american customers, this is definitely not the norm. Once you get past the 30 days (or whatever) store return policy, very few stores are going to allow returns or honor a manufacturers warranty. And they shouldn't have to.

As noted above, from this week Adorama Camera will also be supporting full warranty service for all VIOFO products purchased from us.
 
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