Adorama has the WR1 for $69+FS but is on backorder.

Discussion in 'WR1' started by r_s, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. M Basta

    M Basta Member

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    Fascinating thread. Good, honest debates and I learned some stuff about the retail side of things that I didn't know before.

    I've bought from B&H before but not Adorama. Decent experience; nothing negative and nothing extraordinary. Just a good, normal transaction. I'd think the Adorama experience wouldn't be too different from B&H.

    Bottom line here though is that it appears that big retailers like Adorama will have to introduce more personalized "handling" of warranty cases on Chinese dashcams if they want to capture an audience that's already accustomed to that type of service from the smaller retailers we know here on DCT. It's now clear to me that "service" comes at an added upfront premium (not too dissimilar to the "bundled" sd card). That added premium is not necessarily unreasonable if the service is good, but I would like a discounted option if I don't want it. Some people just want the dashcam and little else. I certainly don't want to be charged for a "bundled" sd card, however. Ever. I have plenty of Sandisk High Endurance 64gb ready for action.

    My guess is that a retailer the size of Adorama wouldn't change their current policies on this, so if they instead offer the same product at a lower price point with the explicit understanding that it's the customer responsibility to handle the warranty process, then I think that's a great alternative for customers. Options are good. However, if there's no price incentive (i.e. if retailer X is offering WR1 at $99 with warranty service, and retailer Y sells at the same price but doesn't provide that added level of service beyond 30 days), then obviously there's little/no incentive to buy there. Having said that, considering the dashcam business is relatively new, maybe special handling of warranty cases by retailers is in everyone's best interest until the industry matures enough to a point where the manufacturers can establish some kind of domestic presence and handle that aspect themselves.

    It will be interesting to see how all of this unfolds, and how certain retailers choose to proceed ... not just on this product, but any upcoming products, from any manufacturer.

    I'll be watching.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  2. HelenOster

    HelenOster Member Retailer

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    "...locked in at the advertised price..." provided there isn't a typo. Per our website:

    https://www.adorama.com/help/termsAndConditions

    upload_2017-7-17_9-21-46.png

    upload_2017-7-17_9-22-7.png
     
  3. SawMaster

    SawMaster Well-Known Member

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    Then that explains much- thanks for the info :D

    Phil
     
  4. SawMaster

    SawMaster Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly my point. When there is an MAP you cannot get this because nobody is allowed to offer it :( So the consumer suffers instead of benefiting :eek:

    I can see the manufacturer's POV in wanting to maintain a quality reputation, and in how supplying a good SD card helps that. And while I too have enough good SD cards, I really don't mind that so much as long as they don't charge BlackVue type prices for the card ;) But without a stated card-less price you have only the seller's word to go by, which with them already being known to charge more lowers their face-value credibility instead of increasing it :eek: Most buyers will not know the sellers as well as we do here, so it is something to think about.

    I place great value on service and on how a seller treats me as a customer. I do not intend to change who I normally buy from even if they may charge more because I want to see good people succeed in business. But I also want the option to decide for myself to buy more cheaply knowing fully well that I may lose something in doing that. I think this is even more important when we're talking about a new and yet-unknown product which might well turn out to be a dud (shades of the M2 and X :mad:). I'm willing to risk having another bad experience with a newly-introduced cam at a low enough price, but if it's going to all be MAP and full retail price then I will wait until the product is proven before buying. And in the meantime I may instead spend my money on a more known and proven product so that I never buy the new one because I no longer need it.

    It's not the simple matter some seem to think it is, and there is as much potential for bad as for good for everyone who is involved with MAP.

    Phil
     
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  5. HelenOster

    HelenOster Member Retailer

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    Because they are lying....We do not cancel backorders without notice. And as you have never ordered from Adorama yourself, you have no first-hand evidence.
     
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  6. Whatatay

    Whatatay Member

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    Fact - Your customer service, or some part of it is outsourced to the Philippines
    Fact - You can't really manage from 7000 miles away, but you still have some CS in Philippines.
    Fact - You tried to hide the fact that you have customer service in the Philippines.

    I as not disturbed that you have customer service in the Philippines. I am disturbed that you implied you didn't.
     
  7. HelenOster

    HelenOster Member Retailer

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    You read something into a simple statement that was never intended; and your interpretation, my dear, that teams cannot be managed across the globe? How very parochial of you. You have never been an Adorama customer, yet you exhibit an extraordinary and inexplicable desire to attack Adorama, both here and on SlickDeals - and I am apparently a handy whipping boy. Not to worry; I've reported several of your more outrageous posts.

    As an aside: Intel's head office is in the US; their largest production centers are in Israel; my husband manages Intel budgets and contracts across Europe, Middle East and Africa. It matters not one whit where his bottom is seated. What matters is the management structure, team training and staff commitment to do a good job.


    Adorama Camera is a privately owned family business; if our managers and owners feel that we can create the best customer experience by locating team members across the globe in multiple time zones in order to minimise response times for our customers in the 200+ countries we ship to, frankly, it isn't anyone's business but theirs.
     
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  8. harsh

    harsh Well-Known Member

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    @Whatatay

    Most companies that have their customer service processes outsourced to countries with cheaper labour don't actually like to disclose or admit it. Simply put, "it isn't good for business".

    Amazon and Yahoo have been doing it for as long as I can remember. Their entire web support was outsourced to a company I worked for over 15 years ago. I personally don't see anything wrong with such arrangements.
     
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  9. HelenOster

    HelenOster Member Retailer

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    True - but short-sighted. Less costly labor costs don't have to mean a lesser service if the management is strong and responsive. (And we don't consider any of our colleagues outside of NYC to be 'outsourced' - because everyone is managed from NYC). I've been with Adorama coming up 11 years, and in my opinion, all of my colleagues in Manila are hard-working, loyal & dedicated.

    Less costly labor costs do, of course, mean more competitive pricing for our customers. And as you touched on (and I mentioned earlier in this thread) Amazon couldn't possibly run operations to adequately meet the needs of all customers worldwide, if all their team members had to be sitting in Seattle....
     
  10. Whatatay

    Whatatay Member

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    Come on. No one here is buying that.

    No one who is the CS manager of a company who ships 10,000 orders daily, especially of people 7000 miles away, has time to frequent forums and no company is going to pay them to do that. If your company was that successful you wouldn't need to do that. Not because there wouldn't be any problems, but because successful companies have so many customers that they don't care about the ones who have issues.
     
  11. HelenOster

    HelenOster Member Retailer

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    You clearly have NO concept of what my job involves.

    Why don't you email me: Helen@adorama.com and tell me exactly why you have such a downer on me? You don't know me, you've never been privvy to a copy of my job description; you have never sought Customer Service assistance from me.
    Yet you exhibit strong indicators that you have a completely irrational and inexplicable hatred for me.
     
  12. HelenOster

    HelenOster Member Retailer

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    Once again, you are incorrect. Actually, we DO care about our customers. And we care passionately about photography. Which is why we offer completely free classes via Adorama TV and the Adorama Learning Center.

    (Seeing a pattern, here?)

    Looks like I need to remind you: Adorama is listed as one of the top five electronics retailers by Consumer Reports, “Best of the Web” by Forbes.com, Internet Retailers Top 100, and is the official Electronics Retailer of the NY Giants.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 4:48 PM
  13. Whatatay

    Whatatay Member

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    I am not sure what you are talking about. Everyone can return a defective product to the retailer within the return period and get an immediate refund or replacement. There is no limit, like only 50 customers who bought an item can return it. No need to waste time with the manufacturer on the phone jumping through hoops, shipping the item back at your expense, and waiting weeks for the product to come back (unfixed). Who would do that?

    The reason the cards are in the product is because if you take the product back to the retailer the manufacturer is forced to issue a credit for the price the retailer paid. which costs them money. If the customer deals with the manufacturer, all it costs the manufacturer is return postage to send the unfixed product back to the customer. Or they send you are garbage refurb when you paid for a new one. They don't care if you complain and tell others and never buy their products again because they know millions of other people will. Now on the other hand if they don't issue a credit to Walmart for returned items they could lose future sales to 700 stores. That's a huge loss of money.

    Manufacturers in the USA are not required by law to provide warranty service. They are only required to pretend to do so. Don't believe me? Go read the reviews on Amazon by people who foolishly and for some unknown reason (or because the card told them to) had a problem right away with their and contacted the manufacturer instead of sending it back to Amazon for a refund or replacement.


    I agree with everything else you have stated. Even when you paid extra for USA warranty service they still tried to send you a garbage replacement and they company has an ignorant tech but in the end you got a working camera.

    Here is the bottom line. If Adorama sells the WR1 for $69 vs $99 from everyone else, the customer has to decide if they want to take the risk of not needing warranty service. However, since Adorama has raised the price to $99 like everyone else, anyone would be foolish to buy from them and have to send the unit to China for warranty service when you can buy from SpyTek or ODC for the same price and have USA warranty service. I would definitely give my business to ODC and SpyTek.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 7:04 PM
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  14. HelenOster

    HelenOster Member Retailer

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    :)
     
  15. Whatatay

    Whatatay Member

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    How do you know they will get one when in stock? Do you work for Adorama so have the authority to make such a statement?

    As for the K20D, it was already stated here by Viofo that $69 for the WR1 is below cost but Helen says they are not losing money on the deal. Helen said their cost of part of a complex process so maybe the same applied to the K20D.
     
  16. Whatatay

    Whatatay Member

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    Amazon has the WR1 for preorder at $79.
     
  17. Whatatay

    Whatatay Member

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    So everyone is lying in these negative reviews? They actually received stellar service but posted a bad review? I didn't see them denying the fact CS was in the Philippines so when it comes to credibility, I am much more inclined to believe.
     
  18. HelenOster

    HelenOster Member Retailer

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    Still waiting for your email....
     
  19. Whatatay

    Whatatay Member

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    Reported my posts for stating facts and exposing you? Is this part of damage control? Reporting just makes people even more suspicious of you, your company, and your motives. People with valid arguments debate, as I am doing. People without them report and try to censor.

    As for your husbands job, managing budgets and contracts is not managing people. Two completely different things. Budgets and contracts don't need training, coaching or discipline, They don't take excessive breaks or call in sick. I just don't believe an absentee manager can be an effective manager.

    Everyone knows outsourced CS has a reputation for being a bad thing. Hard to understand accents and language barriers and CS reps who go by a script with no power to actually resolve or escalate problems. The only reason companies outsource customer service is to save money. Guess what, I am not waking up at 2:00 AM to call customer service so what does CS being 12 hours different than me help? Discover credit card and even your competitor B & H make it a point to say that their customer service is in the USA. Why would they do that if outsourced CS is such a good thing?
     
  20. Viking

    Viking Well-Known Member

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    I have moved on with my life, without any deep scar.:dead:

    I have done business Adorama after and I'm ok with there service.
    I got warranty problem with a voice record and my lost was only the return shipping.

    Soon I have to buy a new dslr camera since I often got focus problem with my now old K20D. :watching:
    I would hope I could find as good deal as my Pentax, but this time its gonna be a Nikon D7200. But it seems Nikon price is fixed.

    I don't know where I will place my order yet, but looking out for some good deal, with USA warranty and a place I feel I can trust and get pamper, if I should get a problem.
     
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