Brexit

UK farmers food...?

Produced by EU migrants 90% workforce

Subsidised by EU ~40% average....

Top all of that with impending (EU) import duties...

Bunch of carrots produced in UK priced €5 vs €1 priced, produced within EU
THAT is scenario, no different.
Not sure what you are arguing about, those migrants live here, they are part of the UK economy, the EU subsidies are paid for by the UK tax payers, we also pay part of the subsidies for other countries such as the Italian wine subsidy (Euro 700 million), we will not be paying EU import duties on UK produced food, and I normally buy UK produced carrots anyway!
 
...yeah, because it actually is the resonable thing to do: not panicking and thinking about what to do next, what (new) options and opportunities opened themselfes... (I don't care who else is saying this; because "doing the opposite of those politicians I don't like eventhough i know it's wrong" sure will make everything more complicated)
Simple really, obvious! consequences for voting, without being aware what voted for is the problem.
No, without sarcasm as it is a serious topic after all:

If you boil it down, main issue on hand:
except those stock-exchange-panics nothing happend till today. GB is still a member of the EU (until one applys Chapt.50).
Stock-Exchange (including the pound) already recoverd.
Not, it is still falling
The pound has had fluctuations before, so that shouldn't have been a surprise...

Ok, so for now, there should not be any setbacks YET*. There is still time to prepare.

*And IF there are already retailiations from EU-manufacturers/supplyers - well, good thing that GB is leaving, isn't it? Guess what they'd do to your business if they would have remained!
It is very much business dealings- no "nastiness" expected.
Sure - as long the politics isn't preparing itself (and the country) for an alternative, there will be chaos; that is why now everybody should remain calm, stop panicking and think of the alternatives:
chapt. 50 needs to be negotiated; following alternatives present themselfes:
There is nothing to negotiate about! either inn or out
1. a "freetrade-agreement" with EU? Worked for Ukraine and Turky; regulating only questions of trade.
Free trade deal only goes to reduced import-export duties
2. joyn the EEC without joyning the EU (as Norway and Lichtenstein did)
Norway and Lichtenstein are both under the same EU trade directives, as EEC, but those two 1- economy is based on natural resources used for public funding; 2- existing monetary trade (offshore) trading deals and investments, avoiding EU control.
3. bilateral contracts with EU as Switzerland did (I wouldn't recomend that solution, as the EU strongarms Switzerland on every occasion)
Counters your points 1 and 2
4. with 1 or 3, rejoyning the EFTA, and having even MORE countries to freetrade with...
Not on the table!
...and make the solution as "put in place" at the moment, GB finally leaves the EU.
That is where only experienced crook bLiar has been talking of possibility to make such possible
(thus is for you to accept, that Chilcot report timing and "hope" of UK to negotiate with EU- bLiar's help is not going to happen)
During that, you can, as one who remained calm, prepare your company and strategy for any of those solutions, while all those panicking around "we have to rejoyn" (while not even left the EU) will be overwhelmed with what happens...
Not going to happen, as Ca'Moron, angry at everyone, has already delayed and prohibited either 2'nd vote or rejoining to materialize.
Edit: typos. Leftovers are free of charge
 
Not sure what you are arguing about, those migrants live here, they are part of the UK economy, the EU subsidies are paid for by the UK tax payers, we also pay part of the subsidies for other countries such as the Italian wine subsidy (Euro 700 million), we will not be paying EU import duties on UK produced food, and I normally buy UK produced carrots anyway!
Just saying, that in practical terms, either way subsidized, but horticultural goods will never be cheaper produced in UK, than currently is.
and more of an direction of CH poster, believing, that post Brexit, UK produced goods will remain competitive in Switzerland
 
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Hopefully, Britons now will get the lost jobs to East Europeans.
 
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Hopefully, Britons now will get the lost jobs to East Europeans.
Plucking chickens or picking apples?
Not funny!
 
Plucking chickens or picking apples?
Not funny!
Well, East Europeans can't come easily off the boat once it's done deal so someone has to do it.
It's same scenario if migrant workers aren't allowed to come here in US.
Haven't you watched "A Day Without A Mexican" movie? :D
 
Well, East Europeans can't come easily off the boat once it's done deal so someone has to do it.
It's same scenario if migrant workers aren't allowed to come here in US.
Haven't you watched "A Day Without A Mexican" movie? :D
Haven't seen one...

it is not about EU migration anyway,
it is about outside of EU migration and cultural (religious) migrants horror, that the biggest Brexit vote played for.
UK already had different/better restrictions and agreements, than the rest of EU partners.

Brand new ("from scratch") negotiations? what with? how? as when French already overflown with migrants still kept flow to UK to a minimum.

BTW, in order to avoid British ex-pats deportation from EU, the EU migrants will stay already... OK- come crunch time- will be deported... leaving actual migration concern- immigrants from Africa and Asia unaffected.
 
I saw East Europeans everywhere I went the last time I was in London.

As for Asians, aren't there many parliament members from Indian origin already?
They are as Britons as native, well except the skin color.
 
I saw East Europeans everywhere I went the last time I was in London.

As for Asians, aren't there many parliament members from Indian origin already?
They are as Britons as native, well except the skin color.
...touché...
 
Just saying, that in practical terms, either way subsidized, but horticultural goods will never be cheaper produced in UK, than currently is.
and more of an direction of CH poster, believing, that post Brexit, UK produced goods will remain competitive in Switzerland
If we continue to spend the same on agricultural subsidies after Brexit as before then because it will 100% go to UK farmers, UK produced food should become cheaper, however we do need to change the rules so that the money doesn't go to "Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Wall Street bankers": https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/21/waste-cash-leavers-in-out-land-subsidie
 
If we continue to spend the same on agricultural subsidies after Brexit as before then because it will 100% go to UK farmers, UK produced food should become cheaper, however we do need to change the rules so that the money doesn't go to "Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Wall Street bankers": https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/21/waste-cash-leavers-in-out-land-subsidie
I think Britain is too small to control world economy and especially now when those Saudi, Indians, Chinese, Russians have big investments in UK.
For example, Mittal (Indian migrant) who being the eighth wealthiest man in Britain in 2002, he does not hold British citizenship.[11] He was ranked the sixth richest person in the world by Forbes in 2011,

US can control a lot of world economy that because of it's size, resources but UK is just too small.
They should actually have moved to US and call it UK. They tried but their own defected and that's now us. ;)
 
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One thing above economic demise, I give credit to the Brexit- mommas Merkel initiated migration and Turkey travel provisions...
If she does allow final destruction of Europe as known- then, regardless of economic consequences, Britain need to stay out of EU at any cost possible
just as an reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Europe
 
I think Britain is too small to control world economy and especially now when those Saudi, Indians, Chinese, Russians have big investments in UK.

US can control a lot of world economy that because of it's size, resources but UK is just too small.
They should actually have moved to US and call it UK. ;)
We seem to have had quite an impact just through declaring a Brexit sometime in the future!

Of course that doesn't mean we can control things, but we can decide not to pay agricultural subsidies to non-residents who buy farmland in the UK and then don't farm it, but not now, only after the Brexit!

For example, Mittal (Indian migrant) who being the eighth wealthiest man in Britain in 2002, he does not hold British citizenship.[11] He was ranked the sixth richest person in the world by Forbes in 2011,
Clearly the UK is a good place to invest and you don't need to be a British citizen to be welcome!
 
As long as the value of the £ says down, the Chinese stuff has become more expensive and your stuff has become more attractive.
.

based on you purchasing with today's money, while he has last months stock

when @JooVuu has another production run and is paying in USD for that his costs will have to rise, that more expensive Chinese product will again have the same price disparity it had last month and you're looking at buying from China again, same old same old
 
Can we stay on topic? Chilcot has nothing to do with Brexit :rolleyes:

UK-BREXIT-and-EU.png
Do the 17.4 million voters who opted for "leave" do so because of the real fear of losing control of their lives to an aloof tyranny as some of us in the U.S.A. feel ?
 
OK, timing of Chilcot report... am I paranoid, to see it just right now, in order to burry bad news, with even worse news?

If anything bLiar has got been put back to his cave, by Conn's?


National debt worldwide is only an indicator of monetary system corruption, but still does not clearly implies importance of economic changes due to globalisation.
UK is (I think) the biggest debt'or per person in the world.
I think WE are the greatest debtors, because of runaway Washington and the democrats!
 
While the £ is low, it should be true if you sell anywhere but UK.

As long as the value of the £ says down, the Chinese stuff has become more expensive and your stuff has become more attractive.

Yes, the UK will have to pay higher prices for many things over the next few months, and we will start buying more food from UK farmers etc., things will change but change can be good.

Okay I see where you are coming from but sadly it doesn't work like that.

Firstly, as @jokiin has stated the next production runs/orders etc I'm crucified. Not literally but financially.

You're also assuming my prices stay the same - how can they? I've lost about 15-18% just gone. I sadly have to afford to eat and a roof over my head. Lets even say I can offset this by the extra orders...problem is then I need better infrastructure and my costs rise...I lose regardless. Yeah you're right currently there's a tiny equilibrium but that'll go within about a week or two.

I don't think you understand the gravitas of the decision, it seems like you are looking at it from a very simplistic view. Read below...again this is me just highlighting stuff, not arguing or being aggressive merely just showing what it's like for me as a small business.

@JooVuu

...yeah, because it actually is the resonable thing to do: not panicking and thinking about what to do next, what (new) options and opportunities opened themselfes...

Again you're missing the point, how can I not panic when I have lost that much profit?
If you boil it down, main issue on hand:
except those stock-exchange-panics nothing happend till today. GB is still a member of the EU (until one applys Chapt.50).
Stock-Exchange (including the pound) already recoverd.
The pound has had fluctuations before, so that shouldn't have been a surprise...
Usually I would attempt to be more diplomatic but on this I can't - this argument with anyone who studied the EU and knows anything basic about the markets will tell you - is so simplistic it's painful.

Yes we are still a member of the EU. However, it stops there. Markets work on certainty, and what we have is a very very very uncertain situation. Even us being a member of the EU isn't certain - when will Article 50 be invoked? We 'know' not till a new PM is in place. That could be September. Theresa May the frontrunner has said she wouldn't invoke it for a while...but when? The markets have no idea. As such they are SO volatile who would want their money in the UK?

Now before you say, it's good for foreign investors, yes it is in the short term. They buy low, build the price up, sell. After all, who knows what is going to happen to the UK market/economy and as such why risk it.

The UK was very attractive for foreign currency due to our credit rating, low tax levels, and a very blind eye to sweetheart tax deals. We also gave companies access to the EU market. As such the GBP was seen as a good safe bet, but now not so much...we may have low tax levels but if you have the same access to the EU as say Panama does...why would you go to the UK when you can get better in Panama?

Now before you say oh that won't happen - remember, market votility. As soon as Article 50 is triggered you have 2 years to get an agreement before we trade under WTO guidelines (which have tariffs etc) or all 38 national parliaments have to agree to an extension or agree the trading deal the UK has...if you want to see how difficult that is look at Canada's and Switzerland (who have technically been negotiating with the EU on their access for about 20ish years).

In real terms the FTSE 100 is down 9% when you take into account the USD strengthening. Anyway the FTSE100 is not the best indicator, as these are mainly foreign owned companies with big currency reserves the best one to look at to see how UK businesses are doing is the FTSE250...which is down about 10%. So the FTSE 100 masks it. Look at banks and property firms they have been slammed. 6 property funds have frozen assets...which have further spooked the markets. Those 6 have about 25bn GBP locked up now which investors cannot access.

The argument you made is one that is being spoused by the Brexiteers. It's simplistic, and is essentially like banging your best friends mom but saying...I used a condom so it's fine. It's meaningless and avoiding the point - ****s going to go down.

Ok, so for now, there should not be any setbacks YET*. There is still time to prepare.

*And IF there are already retailiations from EU-manufacturers/supplyers - well, good thing that GB is leaving, isn't it? Guess what they'd do to your business if they would have remained!
So let me get this straight...because we are leaving and there may be retaliations it's now a good thing we're leaving? That makes no sense in any shape or form.

I have worked with two dutch companies who have both been amazing. Genuinely fantastic and I hope to continue to work with them. Luckily my trade with the EU is small for services and as such the drop in GBP to EURO has not affected me that much but other businesses who do will have the same problems I am having.

Sure - as long the politics isn't preparing itself (and the country) for an alternative, there will be chaos; that is why now everybody should remain calm, stop panicking and think of the alternatives:
chapt. 50 needs to be negotiated; following alternatives present themselfes:
1. a "freetrade-agreement" with EU? Worked for Ukraine and Turky; regulating only questions of trade.
2. joyn the EEC without joyning the EU (as Norway and Lichtenstein did)
3. bilateral contracts with EU as Switzerland did (I wouldn't recomend that solution, as the EU strongarms Switzerland on every occasion)
4. with 1 or 3, rejoyning the EFTA, and having even MORE countries to freetrade with...

What alternatives? Let me go through yours and highlight the shortcomings and how basically the UK has not just shot itself in the foot but in the damn head.

1) Wow - you're comparing the freetrade agreement of Ukraine and Turkey with the EU? You honestly want me to shred this one apart or shall we just agree to move on seeing as you're comparing a banana to a Porsche.

2) I love this argument! It's my favorite one. So have the same kind of agreement as Norway and Lich do....so pay in an abhorent amount, have absolutely no say over anything...but get access to the market...so why did we leave? Political reasons? Well we'd still have to implement everything they said but we cannot oppose it...if we do we're out. So yeah that arguments dead in the water.

3) Dear god - stop. Let's look at Switzerlands predicament. Recently they voted not to allow any migrants into Switzerland. The EU said SURE THAT'S FINE but you don't get access to our market then. Woops. Then see point 2.

4) The EFTA is a possibility - it might be something that happens but we hold no cards. EFTA is usually for countries who want to be apart of the EU but can't (Norway (population rejects it even though forecasts said they would save money by entering it), Switzerland etc) The problem with the EFTA is that you're at their mercy...Britain is already at the mercy of the EU...they hold the cards...we hold the dice. The EU don't care if we roll it, they're the house they win regardless, the UK on the other hand could only lose a little or lose everything.

...and make the solution as "put in place" at the moment, GB finally leaves the EU.

During that, you can, as one who remained calm, prepare your company and strategy for any of those solutions, while all those panicking around "we have to rejoyn" (while not even left the EU) will be overwhelmed with what happens...

Actually this is what is going to happen - businesses will flee the UK to join the EU. Not many company's are going to 'wait' and see when a deal may or may not happen soon and stay in a market that is not stable. They'll go to the larger more profitable and more stable market 20miles to the east.

Cheers,

EDIT:
These are slightly more in-depth answers but not nearly the depth this subject and topic deserves. If anyone wants to genuinely learn more about the EU and how it works read these books:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/0230249825
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/0199570825
 
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Do the 17.4 million voters who opted for "leave" do so because of the real fear of losing control of their lives to an aloof tyranny as some of us in the U.S.A. feel ?
I think most people voted leave due to experience rather than fear of the future, to maintain control rather than to get control back. For example the fishermen have their boats tied up in port banned from leaving port and fishing in UK waters while the Spanish fishermen are allowed under EU rules to remove fish out of our waters, they have been campaigning and voting for change for decades, but the EU rules have now affected enough people for the EU to get thrown out of power just as we would throw our government out of power if we don't like what it does. Things are very different to the USA, there is really no point trying to make comparisons.
 
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