COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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I was thinking this morning while tossing and turning in my bed for hours ( normal ) what if this became a regular thing every fall/winter/spring.
And what if every year it came back just a little different and maybe even more deadly.

Danes shopping TP


As explained in the Wired article I linked to above, there's currently some professional speculation that the COVID-19 virus may have already mutated and this may explain some of what epidemiologists and virologists are seeing in various hot spots around the world.
 
Danes are showing their class,,,,,,, by stealing hand sanitizer from the hospitals.

Not that it in any way surprise me, i guess it is one of the reasons i feel better when i an not in Denmark.
don't feel bad, every country has stupid people unfortunately
 
This is NOT "fake news". In 2018 the Trump administration disbanded the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense, established under the Obama administration as a result of the Ebola outbreak. The Trump administration also proposed cuts the CDC's budget as well as the Department of Health and Human Services.

If you are going to rant about "fake news" please don't go quoting Fox News who has literally been one of the worst purveyors of ultra partisan disinformation about the corona virus pandemic.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/

"I ran the White House pandemic office. Trump closed it."

Fox News is spreading Trump's coronavirus lies faster than the disease itself
Snopes is literally quoting the very same person that I linked in my article. If you're going to rely on Snopes for fact-checking, you're going to be wrong about half the time. Trump drastically reduced the size of the NSA staff, but he did not rescind the mandate for NSC to follow and manage pandemics. He also did not cut the CDC budget. In Washington-speak, a "cut" is less than what they wanted to get but an increase from the previous year. The CDC's own website shows a year-on-year increase in its budget. https://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/programs-impact/budget/index.htm

As for Fox News, I consider all news sources suspect. That's why I read the articles instead of the headlines. The Fox News story I linked to early information about when the virus started and when China shared the genetic information. Do you dispute those? Don't you think that would be a bit silly?
 
Because even viruses hate the cold.
They are supposed to like winter weather, that is when we normally get them, and why they are called colds!

And given that all the Nordic countries are high up on the cases/million, it would seem that they do like the cold. The puzzle is that although people do have the virus, they are nearly all surviving, while in Italy there are a lot of deaths.
 
This is not the time to focus on this- we've got bigger issues to deal with now that the disease is here and growing larger by the hour. But when this is over, this should be delved into officially and nationally, and those who were responsible for our awful response to this disease- whoever they may be and from whatever political party they came from- should be branded as traitors to the American people because that's what they truly are.

Phil
Then don't respond to what I post. Expecting me to not counter what you say is unrealistic. The section you quoted from the Wikipedia article has since been removed, which means it didn't meet their standards. I'm a Wikipedia editor. I can assure you that all sorts of biased crap get put into Wikipedia. Then, it gets filtered out as the editors catch it and remove it. The lies about cuts has been going on forever. As I recently posted, the CDC budget is larger than the previous year. In Washington, a "cut" is less than what the big-government crowd wanted. It's never an actual reduction in funding. These same claims were made about the VA budget when Bush was President, and they were equally provably false.

Here's the CDC's budget for 2017, 2018, and 2019. https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2019/fy-2019-detail-table.pdf
You'll immediately jump on the fact that it's been reduced by almost $1 billion without reading the footnotes:
2 The FY 2019 Budget consolidates the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health and the Energy Employee Occupational Injury Compensation Act program from CDC to NIH.
3 The FY 2019 Budget reflects the transfer of the Strategic National Stockpile from CDC to the Public Health and Social Services Emergency Fund.

So, the CDC budget was reduced by $877,827,000, but $1,104,019 was transferred to other agencies that took over those programs, so their budget actually increased by $226,192,000.

That's not a news report. That's CDC's own numbers published on their own website, as I linked above.

Now, I'm willing to stick to discussing the virus so long as others will stop blaming Trump for the virus and accusing him of doing all sorts of terrible things that he's not doing. But, if people keep bashing him, I will keep responding with facts. Fair enough?
 
Today seem to have been a slow day in Denmark, the number infected are now 827 - 4447 have been tested. 23 in hopsital and still 4 in ICU and 2 of those critical, so i guess the one that died was not one of those.
The sunny weather today did get Danes out and about, after a frwwzing morning with -7 deg C temperatures.
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They are supposed to like winter weather, that is when we normally get them, and why they are called colds!

And given that all the Nordic countries are high up on the cases/million, it would seem that they do like the cold. The puzzle is that although people do have the virus, they are nearly all surviving, while in Italy there are a lot of deaths.
OK. I'll scrap that theory and go with another one. Nordic people are hearty folks. That's why my Swedish ancestors lived so long. How's that? :love:
 
No need to start every post with " to the best of my knowledge"
We all know the pitfalls that face any seeker of the truth and information, so please no Monty Python argument sketch copies.
 
We Danes have a saying that goes "weeds don't perish that easy"
As the sun swell up the last man standing on this scorched earth will probably be waving a little red & white flag ( sorry no blue ) while he drink one last beer as the sun come over the horizon.

And it is not cuz he is the last one alive,,,, all the other ones left a long time ago.

PS: now i have edited that saying 4 times, seem like i am not strong in those what so ever.

Weeds as in hearty things hard to get rid off.
 
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From BBC News:

"Hundreds of scientists have written to the government urging them to introduce tougher measures to tackle the spread of Covid-19. "

Seems to be hundreds of mathematicians, and a few astronomers!
Almost no medical scientists.

We are still in 27th place, a tenth the number of cases/population of Denmark, a 20th of Italy, lock things down too soon and you extend the danger time considerably, and that puts the vulnerable at extra risk.

Main issue at the moment seems to be that it is our vulnerable that have got infected, maybe from cruises? While in Denmark it was skiers that got infected so is far lower on deaths than us. The important thing to do is protect the vulnerable by isolating them, not extend the duration at a time when the hospitals can cope. Hopefully the people doing the planning have better data and models than those mathematicians that wrote the letter and judging by the interview on the news are intent on scaring people!
 
Snopes is literally quoting the very same person that I linked in my article. If you're going to rely on Snopes for fact-checking, you're going to be wrong about half the time. Trump drastically reduced the size of the NSA staff, but he did not rescind the mandate for NSC to follow and manage pandemics. He also did not cut the CDC budget. In Washington-speak, a "cut" is less than what they wanted to get but an increase from the previous year. The CDC's own website shows a year-on-year increase in its budget. https://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/programs-impact/budget/index.htm

As for Fox News, I consider all news sources suspect. That's why I read the articles instead of the headlines. The Fox News story I linked to early information about when the virus started and when China shared the genetic information. Do you dispute those? Don't you think that would be a bit silly?

You literally claimed that SawMaster's remark that the Trump administration "dismantled the planning mechanism for pandemics back in 2018" was "fake news" yet when presented with an article by Beth Cameron, the person formerly in charge of the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense explaining how it had been shut down by Trump you are trying to make a case that it never happened. The Trump administration not only shut down the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense but they fired ALL the people with exactly the required expertise who ran it. Those were the people whose job it was to keep an eye on developments like this! Nobody at the NCS after that was watching the store. Nobody after that has the required expertise. Nobody took any appropriate actions to deal with what was unfolding in China. In the meantime Trump's first words about the corona virus were to call it a "Democratic Hoax" at a campaign rally and later to claim that "like a 'miracle' it will just go away".

So, again, it wasn't a cut. Trump literally dismantled the National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense and fired everyone who ran it.

As for cutting the CDC budget, Trump is widely known to have done so and he even is on record attempting to defend the cuts.

Trump defends huge cuts to the CDC's budget by saying the government can hire more doctors 'when we need them' during crises
 
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You literally claimed that SawMaster's remark that the Trump administration "dismantled the planning mechanism for pandemics back in 2018" was "fake news" yet when presented with an article by Beth Cameron, the person formerly in charge of the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense explaining how it had been shut down by Trump you are trying to make a case that it never happened. The Trump administration not only shut down the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense but they fired ALL the people with exactly the required expertise who ran it. Those were the people whose job is was to keep an eye on developments like this! Nobody at the NCS after that was watching the store. Nobody took any appropriate actions to deal with whay was unfolding in China. In the meantime Trumps first words about the corona virus were to call it a "Democratic Hoax" at a campaign rally and later to claim that "like a 'miracle' it will just go away.

So, again, it wasn't a cut. Trump literally dismantled National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense and fired everyone.

As for cutting the CDC budget, Trump is widely known to have done so and he even is on record attempting to defend the cuts.

Trump defends huge cuts to the CDC's budget by saying the government can hire more doctors 'when we need them' during crises
I'll start with the article you cited. There's a ton of opinion in there and very little proof. I prefer facts to opinions. I've already shown that the CDC budget was not cut. So, any claims to the contrary are incorrect, according to the CDC themselves. For example, "In its latest budget proposal, the Trump administration sought to cut CDC funding by 16%" Scary statement, where are the links to the actual information? What was the dollar proposal compared to the previous year's budget.

The 2016 CDC budget was $11,519,000,000. https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/budget-in-brief/cdc/index.html#overview
The 2019 CDC budget was $11,095,621,000 https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2019/fy-2019-detail-table.pdf
But, as I pointed out earlier, $1,104,519,000 in program funds and their associated costs were moved to other agencies (NIH and the Public Health and Social Services Emergency Fund.) So, the real budget for activities that CDC is responsible for increased by more than $1 billion.
The 2020 proposed CDC budget is $11,954,000,000 https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/fy-2020-budget-in-brief.pdf
Even if you take the raw numbers and ignore programs that have been moved to other agencies, the "cut" in the CDC budget is 1.3% using the HHS numbers for 2020. That's a long distance from 16% as the article claims and certainly not "huge" as it claims. And we all know that proposed budgets are not real budgets. Those are passed by Congress.

As for Beth Cameron's claim, it is the opinion of one person with a vested interest in making Trump look bad. If you look at the article, which I linked to, even she admits it's not really true. "It's impossible to assess the impact of the 2018 decision to disband the unit, she said."
“It's unclear whether the decision to disband the directorate, which was made in May 2018, after John Bolton became national security adviser, was a tactical move to downgrade the issue or whether it was part of the White House's interest in simplifying and shrinking the National Security Council staff," Cameron says.
So, if it's impossible to assess the impact AND it's unclear what the reason for it was, how then does she conclude that 'it's clear that eliminating the office contributed to what she called a “sluggish domestic response.”'

I've already shown you with the timeline that the response was not sluggish. In fact, Trump was criticized, at first, for moving too aggressively. So, her statements in the article are nothing more than her opinion and have no basis in factual evidence. They are simply an appeal to authority from the article's author to fool the gullible.

Finally, I was not "trying to make a case that it never happened." As I cited in my response quoting the article, "A senior administration official said Friday that the NSC's global health security directorate was absorbed into another division where similar responsibilities still exist, but under different titles. The work of coordinating policy and making sure that decisions made by Trump's coronavirus task force are implemented is still the job of the NSC."

I never said the office wasn't closed, as you are claiming. I said the responsibilities the office had were not eliminated. They were retasked to other offices in the NSC.

Let's at least try to be accurate in our claims.
 
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