COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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Nigel said:
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Yet the media has been praising Vermont and vilifying Sweden :unsure:
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Everything is relative Nigel.

That chart may seem dramatic and obviously that's why you posted it but it is showing an average of fewer than 100 new positive cases a day in Vermont. Today there have been 51 cases. We have 17 patients is the hospital with 2 in the ICU. One of the 17 patients is merely hospitalized under investigation.

We have had only 60 deaths total since the beginning of the pandemic and until the most recent death that last one was back on July 28th.

vtcases.jpg

vtdeaths.jpg

Sweden on the other hand has been unbelievably irresponsible and experiences an average of over 6,000 new cases per day.

Despite the spike, which is occurring world wide, Vermont continues to garner praise for its handling of the situation and Governor Scott and his team have been lauded for their common sense and nimble approach. The "Act Now" guidance is merely a continuation of the approach that has been taken all along but enhanced going into the Thanksgiving Holiday season where people may "want" to gather with their families and loved ones but don't "need" to.

Most people here in Vermont have been willing to observe the guidance from our state government and this has paid off. Unlike in the UK, people are not gathering en mass to engage in public drunkenness, ignoring lock down orders, or engaging in Quarantine Raves, thus creating super-spreader events.

So, again, everything is relative Nigel. The UK had 33,470 new cases on November 12th and over 20,000 new cases reported yesterday! Vermont had only 51.

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Dashmellow said:
Everything is relative Nigel.
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Ahh, OK, so we should be measuring relative to the population size, and although you have small numbers of deaths, relative to population size the numbers are not so impressive!

In the UK:
Cumulative mortality to week 45 of 2020 is higher than cumulative mortality to week 45 in any year since 2008, and is 5.7% above the 2010-19 average.
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While in Vermont, well I can't find a cumulative mortality figure that is remotely up to date, but from March to September you averaged 5% and you are about to have some much higher figures than that:

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Seems Vermont excess mortality is considerably higher than the number of covid deaths Vermont has counted, maybe people are dying of something else? But in most places deaths from other diseases are down rather than up so maybe many covid deaths haven't been counted?

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You are obviously still stung by getting called out repeatedly on all your empty boasts and false claims about the UK's alleged prowess in its handling of the COVID-19 pandemic which by all accounts has been abysmal.

Obviously, you decided to engage in another one of your petty pissing matches with me as you do literally every few days and you do this all the time. Arguing over these vague numbers and making accusations over Vermont's low COVID case and death rate (lowest in the country) is meaningless and petty and ignores the bigger picture of the situation we all are facing. This is ironic considering that the UK has been one of the worst places in the entire world in handling of the pandemic and it has one of the highest death rates. Then again, you demonstrate to us over and over that you are indeed a petty individual. You are literally the only person here who speaks in terms of which nation is "winning" or "losing". It is a sad commentary on who you are and what you are all about.

I have absolutely no interest in engaging in yet another one of your manufactured, petty pissing matches. Have you nothing better or more productive to do with your time? It is remarkable to notice that you spend literally all of your waking hours on this forum from early in the mornings to the wee hours of the night, seven days a week! So, apparently you don't have anything more productive or worthwhile to do with your life. Maybe you should try to find a hobby, or a career perhaps.

BTW, I don't know where you dug up that Vermont chart but it tells us nothing useful in regard to the COVID pandemic here. Your alleged UK chart tells us nothing either as there is no legend. Why don't you cite a source for these charts?

Excess deaths? What nonsense! Vermont has had only 60 COVID-19 deaths since the beginning of the pandemic nine months ago. That's merely 6.6 deaths per month! It's basically a rounding error within the overall yearly mortality rate.
 
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kamkar said:
Get your mask on !!!!
But dont put too much faith in it buddy.
www.nytimes.com

A New Study Questions Whether Masks Protect Wearers. You Need to Wear Them Anyway. (Published 2020)

Masks prevent people from transmitting the coronavirus to others, scientists now agree. But a new trial failed to document protection from the virus among the wearers.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Could do with a few more studies like that so that we can better judge if the small improvement is real rather than just statistically insignificant. At least it is in the right direction rather than being a statistically insignificant increase in infections.

And we still need that study that tells us if they actually protect others, which is seeming increasingly unlikely given that the infection trends on the graphs never seem to respond to mask laws being implemented.

www.medpagetoday.com

Opinion | Here's How to Think About the Danish Mask Study

What the DANMASK-19 trial showed and didn't show about mask use and COVID-19
www.medpagetoday.com www.medpagetoday.com
 
Yeah. this study as anything else government i do not take serious, i am sure what ever this study have cost the tax payers here, those money could have been better spent.

The mink deal well the responsible minister resigned yesterday, and IMO thats just the first step as our PM also clearly lied and belched out wrong information in that regard, really a resignation of the government and a election is all i will accept, aside for the investigation into this too.
 
Some genuinely positive news, a study that showed that various types of antibody tests do not work well, also found:

About 1/4 of the keyworker population studied had high levels of T cells which recognised SARS-CoV2 in their blood when they joined the study in June 2020. By 'high levels' we mean levels similar to those seen in people who have had COVID-19 disease. However, about half the people with high levels of T cells in their blood have not had COVID19, as far as we could tell- the cells were probably there because of previous infection with coronaviruses other than SARS-CoV-2.

Importantly, in our study people with higher levels of circulating T cells appeared to be protected from COVID-19 in the four months after recruitment in June 2020. This applies both to people who have been previously infected with COVID-19, and to those who had not.
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So someone needs to find that other coronavirus that causes covid immunity and spread it around the world, lots of people will get a cold and then be immune, including all those anti-vaxxers!

It seems that, unlike the antibodies, T and B cell immunity lasts for decades, or maybe life. The B cells are what make more antibodies as soon as a previously known virus is detected.
 
Yeah, in spite of the massive undertakings by professionals, and corona more or less just being a cold, there are still a lot to be learned in this regard.
I have not had a flu for decades, and it is also rare i have a runny nose or sore throat, at least in the last few years, i can only assume as i am no longer working my exposure to infected people are even lower.
So there must be some good in being introvert. :)

Myself and i assume most Danes, well if we have a runny nose or a sore throat, thats no excuse to call in sick, and that approach are probably not contributing in a positive way to spread of any decease.
 
kamkar said:
Myself and i assume most Danes, well if we have a runny nose or a sore throat, thats no excuse to call in sick, and that are probably not contributing in a positive way to spread of any decease.
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Same here, but it seems very difficult to stop the spread so it is normally better to spread it around quickly so that the outbreak is over quickly. Maybe in future we will all have to wear masks whenever there is a cold about!

Also we have to spread the colds around the primary schools so that everyone gets immunity at an age when they don't get ill. It is likely that if an 80 year old was to get any of the other coronaviruses for the first time then they would have similar death risk to getting covid-19 for the first time.
 
kamkar said:
Get your mask on !!!!
But dont put too much faith in it buddy.
www.nytimes.com

A New Study Questions Whether Masks Protect Wearers. You Need to Wear Them Anyway. (Published 2020)

Masks prevent people from transmitting the coronavirus to others, scientists now agree. But a new trial failed to document protection from the virus among the wearers.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Not a particularly 'accurate' study by any stretch - especially coming from the NY Times which is known for sensationalist headline reporting. From the article:

Critics were quick to note the study’s limitations, among them that the design depended heavily on participants reporting their own test results and behavior, at a time when both mask-wearing and infection were rare in Denmark.
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Additionally, the 'study' only included surgical masks which are not designed for virus protection and it's been known for some time now that they are not effective for that purpose.

This cited study from the CDC comes to a totally different conclusion regarding mask usage including this:

The relationship between source control and personal protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic14, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use.
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www.cdc.gov

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
 
Most masks being worn today are surgical masks or cloth which has larger holes than surgical masks do.
 
country_hick said:
Most masks being worn today are surgical masks or cloth which has larger holes than surgical masks do.
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I don't understand why they are still recommending "homemade masks", when there are plenty of professionally built ones available now that should come with a test certificate to prove they are effective. There are a number of studies claiming that the surgical three layer masks are better at filtering droplets and aerosols than almost any cloth mask, often considerably better, so why not only allow masks which meet that standard?
 
country_hick said:
Most masks being worn today are surgical masks or cloth which has larger holes than surgical masks do.
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Excerpted from the above cited CDC report which was limited to cloth masks only:

Data regarding the “real-world” effectiveness of community masking are limited to observational and epidemiological studies.


  • An investigation of a high-exposure event, in which 2 symptomatically ill hair stylists interacted for an average of 15 minutes with each of 139 clients during an 8-day period, found that none of the 67 clients who subsequently consented to an interview and testing developed infection. The stylists and all clients universally wore masks in the salon as required by local ordinance and company policy at the time.32
  • In a study of 124 Beijing households with > 1 laboratory-confirmed case of SARS-CoV-2 infection, mask use by the index patient and family contacts before the index patient developed symptoms reduced secondary transmission within the households by 79%.33
  • A retrospective case-control study from Thailand documented that, among more than 1,000 persons interviewed as part of contact tracing investigations, those who reported having always worn a mask during high-risk exposures experienced a greater than 70% reduced risk of acquiring infection compared with persons who did not wear masks under these circumstances.34
  • A study of an outbreak aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, an environment notable for congregate living quarters and close working environments, found that use of face coverings on-board was associated with a 70% reduced risk.35
  • Investigations involving infected passengers aboard flights longer than 10 hours strongly suggest that masking prevented in-flight transmissions, as demonstrated by the absence of infection developing in other passengers and crew in the 14 days following exposure.36,37

Seven studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,38 a German city,39 a U.S. state,40 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,41,42 as well as both Canada43 and the U.S.44 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly.
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I hadn't been keeping up with things here and only heard SC was experiencing another surge (which is true), but I happened across a national county map of new cases and saw where my nearby 'big city' and my local area are at about the same rates of increase :oops: Local has increased some in total numbers, but over in the Metro has decreased considerably, even given the percentage rise, so that's good news to me.

But now it's taking hold in rural places nationwide where the rates are 5-6 times worse than I have here. And the vaccine is still months away for ordinary people like me...

Phil
 
I think i saw somewhere that with a reusable cloth mask, for it to have the same particle trapping properties as a proper face mask, it would need to have so many layers of cloth you would not be able to breath thru it.

The mutation in mink are now said to most likely have died out, just in time for the last of 17 million mink to be dead, and it is also said that the mutation was probably no danger in any way to anything, aside for the normal corona risks.
So a trade ( and i think Denmark was one of the largest fur countries at least in regard to mink fur ) are now gone, and the auction house Copenhagen fur will close and of course a range of related trades like mink food ASO
All for nothing but a bunch of socialist throwing their weight around in a manner that would have impressed Stalin.
Mink breeding might be allowed to start up again in 2022.
 
kamkar said:
Mink breeding might be allowed to start up again in 2022.
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How are they going to do that if all the mink have been exterminated?
Maybe there are a few left?
 
Yes they was not even allowed to keep breeding stock, animals that was the result of decades of breeding, so will have to start from scratch so for sure no exclusive Danish mink furs anymore.
 
kamkar said:
Yes they was not even allowed to keep breeding stock, animals that was the result of decades of breeding, so will have to start from scratch so for sure no exclusive Danish mink furs anymore.
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Seems ridiculous to go to extinction point, there was no real risk from keeping a few thousand breeding stock in well isolated conditions, at least until people had time to think about it properly instead of having a panic reaction.
 
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