COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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I wonder how many of the grocery workers will suffer from PTSD after all this. They need tip jars at the registers. Hats off to them!
 
Tjose guys are a totally unknown format here in Denmark, something like full service gas stations, those whent the way of the dodo here in the 50ties i recon.
 
Nigel said:
Less new cases than a week ago - the lockdown is holding it back.

I see the Faeroe Islands have reached 0.1% detected infection rate. In other countries we have been seeing 1000 people infected for each detected person, but that would mean that they all have the virus!

I was thinking that was impossible, but then I read "The Chief Medical Officer in the Faroe Islands announced that at this point, most people have been infected within the Faroe Islands.", if that is true then they will soon be the first country with herd immunity... I still don't think this can be true?
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The more distant islands by their very nature have closer social contact within, and thus could have extremely high rates of infectious diseases, so I can see how most there could have COVID-19 already. Those places would be ideal for studying the concept of "herd immunity" and how effective it is. Maybe someone's done that already.

I'm sure there is something to 'herd immunity' in general, but for diseases as potent as COVID-19 I'm still not convinced that it should be any part of a response plan. Time, effort, and life are things which cannot be regained once lost ;)

Phil
 
SawMaster said:
I'm sure there is something to 'herd immunity' in general, but for diseases as potent as COVID-19 I'm still not convinced that it should be any part of a response plan. Time, effort, and life are things which cannot be regained once lost ;)
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www.smh.com.au

Spreading COVID-19 for herd immunity would lead to 'catastrophic scenario'

Infectious disease experts have warned against a suggestion that authorities should let the deadly coronavirus spread to achieve "herd immunity".
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
 
Some 20 YO kid almost missed his chance with covid-19, a fire engine flipped over and landed on his car, he is actually pretty well all things considering.

KLIP-8.Movie_Snapshot-e1584581593351.jpg


Just to put a little flavor on it all, plenty of other things in the world that can jump up and take your head off.
 
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Dashmellow said:
Minnesota and Vermont Just Classified Grocery Clerks as Emergency Workers
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While the efforts of these people are commendable and necessary dor retail operations to continue, I question whether they should be classified as "Emergency Workers".
I've read where the Bay Area "shelter in place" directive exempts home-builders as being "necessary workers"- yes we need homes to be built, but honestly, this could stop and nobody outside the industry would notice any difference. What's worse with this is that building crews by necessity have close-distance interactions with co-workers every day and with our "rough and ready" attitude many of us go to work while slightly ill, shrugging it off as nothing to be concerned with. It is bound to spread the disease and with the Governments 'blessing' :rolleyes: Seems that once again the government doesn't know wtf it's doing, but it's doing it anyway :mad:

I was once assigned to my State's EOC for emergency communications. Though I was never deployed I was put "on notice" twice where I'd have 4 hours to be halfway across the State and to be able to fully support myself for a week without outside assistance. Luckily I was never called to deploy. In that 'business' we were given some very clear guidelines of who would be classified as "Emergency Workers" and who would not. The Federal rules for this are even clearer and tighter now than then. I'm not at all happy with labeling people wrongly as it only confuses things. "Necessary Workers" would be a more appropriate label as I'm certain that nearly none of these people would be legally allowed to go into any Government controlled disaster area due to a lack of having the necessary documented training required for that since 9/11 :cautious:

We do need to keep things going, but we need to be clear and concise with everything during any crisis so that everybody knows exactly what is happening and what to expect without any local variations on that. Confusion only makes things worse :( Sorry but carpenters and store workers are not "emergency workers" and we shouldn't be called that.

Phil
 
Technically speaking, at least here in Vermont grocery store clerks and checkout personnel will be designated as "essential workers". Essential persons also include health care workers, first responders, criminal justice personnel, public health employees, child care providers, school staff, National Guard personnel and some state and municipal employees. The designation is required in order for the funding mechanism for childcare and other services to function under the law. Whether you call these people "Emergency Workers" or "Essential Workers" is irrelevant in the midst of a crisis of this magnitude. Everyone understands their role. This is no time for semantics or playing armchair pundit.
 
Dashmellow said:
Whether you call these people "Emergency Workers" or "Essential Workers" is irrelevant in the midst of a crisis of this magnitude. Everyone understands their role. This is no time for semantics or playing armchair pundit.
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But it is quite relevant to those who are "Emergency Workers" in the legal definition of things. And within the already-established system, nobody except the Department of Homeland Security has the right to change that definition. If there's an armchair pundit here it's not me because I am still part of that system as far as my training and qualifications; I've just stepped back to let others do the jobs I once did. If called on i will still respond as before ;)

Words have meanings and those who don't understand this should not speak, but instead listen so that they can learn what those meanings are and why that matters. Because it does matter, especially in a crisis.

Phil
 
SawMaster said:
But it is quite relevant to those who are "Emergency Workers" in the legal definition of things. And within the already-established system, nobody except the Department of Homeland Security has the right to change that definition. If there's an armchair pundit here it's not me because I am still part of that system as far as my training and qualifications; I've just stepped back to let others do the jobs I once did. If called on i will still respond as before ;)

Words have meanings and those who don't understand this should not speak, but instead listen so that they can learn what those meanings are and why that matters. Because it does matter, especially in a crisis.

Phil
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If you say so. ;)
 
Danish veterinarians are now ready to donate ventilators and monitoring equipment, Machines that can also quickly be modified to work with humans just fine.
Some large Veterinarian clinics have many of these machines sitting "idle"
 
kamkar1 said:
Some 20 YO kid almost missed his chance with covid-19, a fire engine flipped over and landed on his car, he is actually pretty well all things considering.

KLIP-8.Movie_Snapshot-e1584581593351.jpg


Just to put a little flavor on it all, plenty of other things in the world that can jump up and take your head off.
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I'm impressed with the fire engine not crushing itself and occupants, must be a lot stronger built than I would expect. Or maybe it was built with the expectation of rolling occasionally?
 
Just to give you an idea of the magnitute in one of the hardest hit area in Italy (Bergamo)
Daily death same period
Avg day last year 8 deaths/day, now in a single day up to 50
Last year, same week:23 people died, this year 330

Thus coronavirus death data goes underreported, people die at home without being admitted to the hospital (probably due to the quick worsening of the symptoms).
Army trucks are delivering coffins to neighbouring provinces because crematorium cannot cope with the demand and to the cemetery.
coronavirus-bergamo-bare.jpg
 
SawMaster said:
The more distant islands by their very nature have closer social contact within, and thus could have extremely high rates of infectious diseases, so I can see how most there could have COVID-19 already. Those places would be ideal for studying the concept of "herd immunity" and how effective it is. Maybe someone's done that already.

I'm sure there is something to 'herd immunity' in general, but for diseases as potent as COVID-19 I'm still not convinced that it should be any part of a response plan. Time, effort, and life are things which cannot be regained once lost ;)

Phil
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It has already been done with other coronaviruses that come around every few years and which we call the common cold. This one is a bit different, but the concept is the same. The big question is will it be like other cold viruses and come around again every few years, or will its rapid spread mean that it dies out before managing to mutate into something that can get passed our newly developed immunity. Hopefully not the other possibility that it mutates so fast that a new version comes around before we have got rid of the first! That one is highly unlikely though, far more likely to die out everywhere except those countries in lockdown, and there it will be mutating and trying to find a version of itself that can get passed the current lockdown defenses, if it succeeds then we are all in big trouble when a new version comes out of China. That is one reason why the herd immunity approach is preferable to lockdown.
 
nowhere is going to stay in lockdown, they need it to slow the spread though so hospitals can cope, herd immunity isn't viable anywhere right now as the infrastructure to deal with the outcome of too many people being sick at once just isn't there in any country
 
jokiin said:
nowhere is going to stay in lockdown, they need it to slow the spread though so hospitals can cope, herd immunity isn't viable anywhere right now as the infrastructure to deal with the outcome of too many people being sick at once just isn't there in any country
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Slowing the spread just delays the time at which we achieve herd immunity, it would be a ridiculous approach to take if it wasn't for the fact that we do develop herd immunity at the end, just a few weeks later than if we let the virus run loose. Also note that the nation being most criticised for using herd immunity is the nation currently showing the slowest spread, other than those that have completely locked down like China. Almost all western nations are going to achieve herd immunity in around 12 weeks time, the ones with the fastest spreads, like Italy and the Faeroe Islands will get there a lot sooner, but with their hospitals overloaded.

Although, it should be pointed out that the Faeroe Islands, as the most infected nation other than San Marino, has actually had zero deaths, even better than the rest of the Nordic Nations, but then the Faeroe Islands must have some of the least polluted air in the world. Maybe it is pollution that is the real cause of death, by damaging our defences and exposing us to the risk of infection too rapid for our immune system to cure in time.
 
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Nigel said:
Although, it should be pointed out that the Faeroe Islands, as the most infected nation other than San Marino, has actually had zero deaths, even better than the rest of the Nordic Nations, but then the Faeroe Islands must have some of the least polluted air in the world. Maybe it is pollution that is the real cause of death, by damaging our defences and exposing us to the risk of infection.
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Yes, living in a polluted city is probably just as bad as smoking in some ways, weakening the lungs and so less defences against coronaviruses.
 
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