COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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that's the thing about common sense, it's not common enough
At least the Brazilians had the common sense to watch what was happening in their trial and abandon it when things started going wrong with people's hearts, instead of waiting until the end when there were a pile of bodies before analyzing the numbers!
 
Anyone who makes a possibly life-or-death medical decision based on the advice of a politician isn't smart enough to deserve the power to vote. Especially when the politician's own self-chosen medical expert is often at odds with what he's saying. We Americans already deny the vote to children, felons, and those who have been found to be insane because they are not mentally capable of making good decisions, so the precedent is there for denying the right to vote to the stupid for the very same reason. Yet instead of doing that, we even allow that kind of person to hold political office :cautious: From that a very good argument could be made that we're all stupid since we're not doing anything about this- how's that for "common sense"?:eek: Now you can see one reason why I hold no hope for the future of my beloved Nation :cry:

Phil
 
Anyone who makes a possibly life-or-death medical decision based on the advice of a politician isn't smart enough to deserve the power to vote. Especially when the politician's own self-chosen medical expert is often at odds with what he's saying. We Americans already deny the vote to children, felons, and those who have been found to be insane because they are not mentally capable of making good decisions, so the precedent is there for denying the right to vote to the stupid for the very same reason. Yet instead of doing that, we even allow that kind of person to hold political office :cautious: From that a very good argument could be made that we're all stupid since we're not doing anything about this- how's that for "common sense"?:eek: Now you can see one reason why I hold no hope for the future of my beloved Nation :cry:

Phil
“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”...Winston Churchill
 


This one should recieve your attention.
 
91 Koreans that have had the virus and have been cleared, now have it again, question is have they been infected again or have the virus been asleep for a while only to flare up again.
And i assume have the virus tests failed ?

I am not touching anything that have RT fingers on it.
 
91 Koreans that have had the virus and have been cleared, now have it again, question is have they been infected again or have the virus been asleep for a while only to flare up again.
And i assume have the virus tests failed ?

I am not touching anything that have RT fingers on it.
It is possible the virus tests are not consistent, we know they are not 100% accurate, but it may also be that they are seeing the workings of the human immune system. It doesn't work by magic, it has to find an antibody that works by trying many, and then work out that one of them has worked, and then work out which one has worked, and then mass produce the one that worked and store the build instructions for future reference in case it is needed again in a few years time. I don't expect the people doing these tests have ever had sufficient funding in the past to do so much testing and see what is really happening as someone gets ill and recovers with a virus that takes a significant time to fully recover from, varying levels of virus and antibodies as you recover are probably normal.

There is no reason to think that this coronavirus is going to be significantly different to other coronaviruses that we have been living with for centuries, it may turn out different, but most likely it won't be much different. The big difference is that nobody had ever caught this one before, so everyone is catching it at the same time, and in some large cities all at the same time is a problem.
 
This one should recieve your attention.
Would have been OK if they had issued that a couple of weeks ago when they were heading towards the peak with insufficient resources, but issuing it as the workload starts to drop seems very strange :unsure: It suggests that they have failed.
 
Would have been OK if they had issued that a couple of weeks ago when they were heading towards the peak with insufficient resources, but issuing it as the workload starts to drop seems very strange :unsure: It suggests that they have failed.
More than likely a Court will get involved because of this directive.
 
Is this what Americans want to see?


Robert Barnes, the controversial attorney who authored this piece is well known for promoting far right wing views and causes. Mr. Barnes also happens to be one of the attorneys representing the far right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, most recently having lost a copyright case where Jones published a poster featuring the image of Pepe the Frog, a cartoon character that was hijacked by far-right extremists and racist internet trolls.

The Barnes article linked in your post is featured in RT, formally known as Russia Today. Russia Today is a basically a Kremlin controlled propaganda organization masquerading as a legitimate news organization.

This whole notion of framing emergency state government temporary "stay-at-home orders" as a some sort of patriotically inspired "freedom" issue is nothing more than an politically engineered wedge tactic. It is designed precisely to appeal to the aggrieved right wing fringe groups from which the politically engineered Tea Party first arose. In fact, many of these protest groups are funded by dark money provided by deep pocketed right wing political operatives. For example, a political group heavily funded by the family of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is behind the rallies against Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer's stay-at-home order. DeVos happens to be the brother of Erik Prince, the founder of the private military company Blackwater (now known as Academi).

Propaganda oriented "news media" organizations would like nothing more than to see poorly informed Americans who lack critical thinking skills eating this stuff up and disseminating it on the internet. When you can convince citizens to engage in potentially suicidal behaviors, prematurely break temporary self-quarantine guidelines, exacerbate the spread of a deadly disease and create social disorder, who wins?

In the current situation, we have the highly unusual circumstances where a right wing US government administration and the Kremlin apparently have aligned goals. (and curiously it's not the first time we've witnessed this)

The fact of the matter is that no US governor wants to shut down the economy any longer that absolutely necessary. In each and every case these "stay at home" orders are temporary with the goal of slowing down the spread of the pandemic to protect lives and to give medical, paramedical, pharmaceutical, manufacturing and government some breathing room to get control of the crisis and come up to speed on the many fronts that will need to be fought over the next 12-18 months.

With the exception of a handful of states (all of which happen to be "red" states) most Governors are demonstrating firm leadership using the latest data and computer modeling and fact based common sense to put appropriate measures into place regarding social distancing. Literally, NO ONE is interested in permanently shutting down the economy or shutting it down a minute longer than absolutely necessary.

Using my home state of Vermont as an example, our Governor, (R) Phil Scott initially declared a temporary state of emergency order called, "Stay Home, Stay Safe" which was initially intended to last until April 15th. Based on data and input from all across the state the order was extended to May 15th.

But now many measures have been put into place and our state is in much better shape to handle the crisis. Testing is now up to speed and there are regional drive through testing centers in place, hospitals are better prepared with both increased personnel and PPE and other equipment and temporary surge facilities have been established. Many doctors, including my personal physician are doing volunteer work in local emergency rooms. In the meantime, our infection numbers and death rates are showing dramatic improvements. We appear to be over the first peak and are better prepared for the next wave. Despite initial hurdles and backlogs our unemployment support and payment systems are now up to speed including Pandemic Unemployment Assistance plus a Pandemic Unemployment Assistance Line for the self employed has been established. (lots of self-employed in my state) Local businesses, agriculture and industry are in many instances finding ways to adapt. People are devising all kinds of creative and clever ways to do business in a safe manner.

And so now, with the crisis under a much better state of control and with the "Stay Home, Stay Safe" order still in place until May 15th a new concurrent order was just announced, - "Work Smart & Stay Safe - Restart VT; Phase 1". This puts into play formalized guidelines and requirements for businesses currently operating and a list of businesses that will now be allowed to reopen. This will be expanded in Phase 2 according to the most up to date data and modeling and another segment of businesses.

This is good government doing what it is supposed to do and most everyone from both sides of the isle seem to be on board.

We need more good government, especially on a national level.

We don't need irrational gun toting far right wing protesters demanding that we abruptly open up society and the workplace in the face of a deadly infectious disease for political reasons.
That is destructive, suicidal, society damaging behavior and it is the very definition of insanity.
 
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As if things were not bad enough with the coronavirus pandemic new medical findings are coming to light that are concerning.

Alarmed as COVID patients' blood thickened, New York doctors try new treatments

"Signs of blood thickening and clotting were being detected in different organs by doctors from different specialties. This would turn out to be one of the alarming ways the virus ravages the body, as doctors there and elsewhere were starting to realize."


An Overlooked, Possibly Fatal Coronavirus Crisis: A Dire Need for Kidney Dialysis

"Ventilators aren’t the only machines in intensive care units that are in short supply. Doctors have been confronting an unexpected rise in patients with failing kidneys."
 
Using my home state of Vermont as an example, our Governor, (R) Phil Scott initially declared a temporary state of emergency order called, "Stay Home, Stay Safe" which was initially intended to last until April 15th. Based on data and input from all across the state the order was extended to May 15th.
If the self-quarantine had declared all essential businesses were closed to the public by only allowing deliveries by people wearing PPE without allowing any physical contact (along with necessary hospital visits) then theoretically 2 weeks would have been all the time that was needed to control the virus from what I have read.

An additional month of being stuck at home is a long time without being able to get more necessary supplies. If it is possible to buy necessary supplies like food by going into essential grocery stores with other people then the quarantine is effectively broken. I have not been in any store for 5 weeks and that was done to obtain necessary items. I can not continue to stay at home like this forever. I do not have the virus because I removed myself from the sources of possible contamination early on when this county had zero cases unlike other counties. If I had the virus but was asymptomatic I believe I would be over it after 5 weeks of isolation.
 
If the self-quarantine had declared all essential businesses were closed to the public by only allowing deliveries by people wearing PPE without allowing any physical contact (along with necessary hospital visits) then theoretically 2 weeks would have been all the time that was needed to control the virus from what I have read.

An additional month of being stuck at home is a long time without being able to get more necessary supplies. If it is possible to buy necessary supplies like food by going into essential grocery stores with other people then the quarantine is effectively broken. I have not been in any store for 5 weeks and that was done to obtain necessary items. I can not continue to stay at home like this forever. I do not have the virus because I removed myself from the sources of possible contamination early on when this county had zero cases unlike other counties. If I had the virus but was asymptomatic I believe I would be over it after 5 weeks of isolation.

Your conceptualization of how this needs to work across a complex modern society (not just your own personal situation) reflects such stunningly naive and oversimplistic thinking it is hard to fathom! Well, considering the nature of many of your other posts, perhaps it's not all that hard to fathom.

dunning_kruger.jpg
 
Those who live in cities may require a different approach. Small town America is very different when compared to a packed city.
Delivering needed goods to those who need them makes more sense when compared to putting everyone together in a few select stores hoping not to infect others also needing food. Making delivery the only option to get supplies could remove a great amount of illness and if done with the proper PPE would make a safer situation for everyone. I am positive the government could make a call center to begin door to door delivery of food and medical supplies happen.
 
After years of making requests to the state we received this message.

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Those who live in cities may require a different approach. Small town America is very different when compared to a packed city.
Delivering needed goods to those who need them makes more sense when compared to putting everyone together in a few select stores hoping not to infect others also needing food. Making delivery the only option to get supplies could remove a great amount of illness and if done with the proper PPE would make a safer situation for everyone. I am positive the government could make a call center to begin door to door delivery of food and medical supplies happen.

In a large city with many millions of people like NYC or LA it would be very difficult to quickly put a temporary system like that into place. You'd have to hire and train thousands of call center and delivery workers, not to mention managers and senior executive officers. You'd need to coordinate and maintain a huge fleet of delivery vehicles. You need massive warehouse and supply chain infrastructure. You'd have to devise a unified payment and record keeping system and the whole thing would require a massive and sophisticated IT system to run it. Even if these resources came from private industry it would be very difficult to coordinate and put into action a plan like you suggest at the drop of a hat. And you'd also need to manage and avoid fraud and waste, which could be a real problem in a complex supply and delivery system thrown together so quickly.

And all that completely ignores the whole PPE shortage crisis we already have where there is not enough PPE for front line medical workers. Where would the PPE you want these people to use come from?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I believe your thinking is overly simplistic.

That said, practically everything you are talking about exists in many rural areas such as here in VT. Using my own region and town of 2,000 residents as an example we have local government, business and many volunteer organizations jumping in to fill the void. If you need someone to purchase and deliver groceries or run an errand, all it takes is a phone call or a visit to a Facebook page. If you need something done or maybe a ride to a doctors appointment in the back seat of a car with someone wearing a face mask, just ask. People are preparing meals for free and delivering them to anyone who wants one (or more). One local woman with experience preparing food for large groups started doing this on her own at her own expense and when word got out people stated donating money for supplies and then it became crowd funded online. We have a local food bank where you can safely stop by and pick up food for free. Even if you are lonely you can call a volunteer or mental health professional who will hang on the phone or FaceTime and chat with you. Local pharmacies will deliver prescriptions and medical supplies to your front door. They also do curbside pick-up to your car when you call in a presciption. People are making and donating protective face masks by the thousands! There has been a remarkable, spirited community effort in my neck of the woods. These sort of efforts are happening in urban areas too.
 
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Florida's governor explains that they beat the curve without being draconian.

 
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