Dash Cam Reliability

[Dashmellow]

Yes we need 100% reliability. Our cams are for documenting events, and we can't have that done well with anything missing.

100% reliability would be great but I believe that will be unlikely. Everything is vulnerable to failure, one way or another. Personally my goal in bringing this topic up in the first place is that I would like to see dash cam manufacturers devote more emphasis on reliability as a primary design goal and effort put into resolving known issues before they even think about adding new features. I'd be willing to pay more for a rock solid, reliable camera with outstanding image quality but few bells and whistles rather than what we have now, which is more and more features but cameras where you can't necessarily trust that they will be there for you in the clutch and and where many buyers (but not all) are quite likely to spend a fair amount of time troubleshooting issues and/or returning failed units.

 

[SawMaster]

Well we definitely agree in principle and on causes. But in the mix is always the show-stopper: Price. I'd been aware of dashcams for some time before I bought my first, always thinking they had to be expensive, only to find they weren't. They were expensive to me at that point as I didn't have much money back then but good grief- clear vids for under $80? A no-brainer. But what I'm pointing out is that had that same cam cost $200 I'd still probably not have one so with limited cost comes limited reliability.

We can get close to 100% with a good system well maintained, but even $4K Police cams sometimes fail so how much does the last bit of reliability cost, and who can afford it?

Phil

 

[Dashmellow]

Well we definitely agree in principle and on causes. But in the mix is always the show-stopper: Price. I'd been aware of dashcams for some time before I bought my first, always thinking they had to be expensive, only to find they weren't. They were expensive to me at that point as I didn't have much money back then but good grief- clear vids for under $80? A no-brainer. But what I'm pointing out is that had that same cam cost $200 I'd still probably not have one so with limited cost comes limited reliability.

We can get close to 100% with a good system well maintained, but even $4K Police cams sometimes fail so how much does the last bit of reliability cost, and who can afford it?

Phil

Well, you can still buy a Mobius for 70 bucks, perhaps the most reliable dash cam product ever built. The ones I have running in my vehicle have been going strong for at least 7 years in the most extreme hot or cold conditions and the vibrations and pounding they get daily on the bumpy mountain roads where I live.

Translate the Mobius build quality to an updated, more typical style of dash camera without all the bells and whistles, but with excellent video performance and audio and we'd really have something. Done right, it wouldn't have to be all that expensive at all.

 

[HonestReview]

I already have. I have a Tesla model 3 that has a built in 4 camera dashcam that has already failed to record an event. I have suplemented it with two Viofo A129 pro cameras front and rear. Redundancy is the only defense we have against the unreliability of dash cams.
And yes dash cams save a huge amount of grief dealing with he said she said arguments. The video ends them immediately. I lost out once when while stopped an a left turn light, the car in front of me backed into me and rammed his trailer hitch into my bumper. I did not have a dash cam at the time. He was believed and I was not.

There are these types of scams. You can find online where people will intentionally cut you off, ram into your car, and create an accident for insurance claims. Classic one is this African American lady side swipes a car and then tries to play victim. Guy pointed to his dash cam and boy did her demeanor change QUICK.

 

[HonestReview]

It is obviously impossible for you to engage in any discussion without resorting to demeaning insults and belittling people.......

But fine. I'll answer this concisely.

I don't think there is another member on the forum who has whined and complained about camera problems and failures quite as much as you have...

My "Whining" is based in facts. It's called testing a product, pointing out flaws. Which come in two forms.

A. Bugs that impact performance, but not reliability. I.E. Software Realted. - While Annoying The SDK that introduced dupe frames into the A129 Duo does not impact reliability. As the Camera functions under both extremes (hot and cold), does not suffer from inconsistent recording behavior, and has stood the test of time. - Glowing reviews from others and two years of reliability testing on my two cameras.

B. Fatal Flaws - Zenfox T3. An Unknown Company (Possibly Backed by Viofo, although never proven), who introduces a camera that has major design flaws. These design flaws result in the camera overheating and shutting off. People experienced these issues while driving in some instances. And I experienced them in parking mode. While I was the first to point these out, my concerns were validated by other beta testers.

Meaning this wasn't whining. I DID MY JOB. I tested a product and determined it to not meet even the basic standards. So Zenfox decided my honesty, and the subsequent complaints of other reviewers based upon my initial results, meant DCT wasn't a place to get "Rave Reviews". They baled, and trolled over to Reddit and other platforms to get people to leave reviews. Without ever putting their product through anything beyond "superficial testing".

You conveniently left off the fact here that your first A129 was defective and that you had issues with the replacement.......

My first A129 Duo unit was defective. Defective does not mean unreliable. There's a difference between a single or batch of faulty camas (quality control at most), and a fatal design flaw. My replacement + Second purchased A129 Duo have functioned without fail for two years plus. Meaning I either got a single bad unit or there was a bad batch. This issue wasn't endemic to all units. Thus not a fatal design flaw impacting overall reliability in all A129 Duos.

CPL filter was due to tint. CPL filter causes a rainbow effect. Again, @jokiin made this issue clear early on. Not Viofo or anyone else's fault. A mere consequence of having tint.

Yes I bitched about the dupe frame issue. Maybe a bit too loudly, but I had hoped Viofo would have an easy fix. Unfortunately, it got introduced early on into their SDK and proved more complicated than expected.

Now you are also "Not a happy camper with the A139" and you are awaiting a replacement and you just go on and on and on with your complaints. It is truly amazing to see how many posts you've indulged in to voice your problems.

Again, call it bad luck. But no one else is seeing the problem's I'm experiencing. I've posted concrete proof of the issues. Again, maybe Viofo's quality control needs improved. The A139 appears to be a "Great Product". And I hope the replacement resolves my issues as per the A129 Duo.

We shall see. If the replacement has the same issues, then I'll test another Memory Card. I.E. Samsung Pro. Just to rule out a memory card fault. Although I'm not certain this will be the issue.

As pointed out, I put my tech through rigorous testing and hold things to a high standard. Time will tell whether my issue is isolated (faulty unit) or a wider issue.

"Voicing My Problems" is how you solicit feedback from others that either may be experiencing a similar issue or are beginning testing with their newly acquired product.

You had similar problems with the ZenFox, but you rationalize that as a beta tester it doesn't count somehow, even though you reported that the camera "melted "

Clearly, you don't read threads in full. Part of our beta testing was attempting to design a solution. One of mine was using copper plates with thermal paste. This did disperse the heat, SO WELL, it caused the camera to melt. My Modification, not the Zenfox Design, was the culprit here.

This is the very nature of your condescending, cherry picking, ill informed, and taken out of context replies that serve to annoy. Just like how I stated over and over and over the A129 Duo has been owned for over 2 years without issue. After receiving a replacement. You take that out of context and then use it to allude that I'm hiding something since my first unit was faulty. I never denied this fact.

Well, that's a hell of a track record you've had and you certainly let us all know every gory detail.

See Above.

I'm glad your A129 is finally working for you (for now). But you behave as if everything revolves around you and your own personal experiences with your cameras except that you are missing the big picture being presented.

Who is the person touting their "11 Years" of experience makes them an all encompassing "Expert". I stated the A129 Duo's reliability was based upon DCT reviews, Multiple Feedback from other uses, and my OWN experience. Note: The sole reliance is NOT on my personal experience alone.

@Dashmellow

You are in the company of many, many others who have had to have their dash cams replaced before they got one they could reply on (including me multiple times), except that you are reporting two for two bad cams delivered to you so far. (or perhaps it's three - counting the ZenFox?)

I received a MyGekoGear 950 and 960 that work perfectly fine out of the box. The one thing that I never got to work was their hardwire kit. I was told it should be functional on the 950 but not 960. I tested on the 950 without success and yes my hardwire is correct. It appears their firmware simply doesn't work as intended. Since the camera will just "Stay On" and never enter park mode. I even tested the fuses I use for the A129 Duo (other vehicle) and verified my hardwire isn't an issue. Nor is their hardwire kit. The problem is rooted in their firmware not supporting parking mode.

MyGekoGear never got back to me on this one and appears no updated firmware exists. According to them, the hardwire kit was a "new addition" and apparently not well tested. The camera's themselves work perfectly in the sense of recording.

The Zenfox I already covered.

The A129 Duo I already covered. Replacement solved issue. Two Cameras work for over two years.

A139 Jury is out. Too early to draw conclusion whether quality control issue, endemic issue, or a combination of both. I'll see when my replacement arrives. Right now, I am LESS THAN thrilled and hope my problem is rectified.

 

[HonestReview]

@DashMellow

But your desire to have two cameras informs us that you don't really trust your A129 to come through for you if you should need it. But you claim it to be "reliable". Either your A129 is as "reliable" as you claim, or it isn't. Like I said, you can't have it both ways.

The A129 Duo is 100% reliable. I am cautious and want redundancy. Even the most reliable product at some point will due or fail. I never want to be in the position of needing a video / evidence and finding I don't have it. Car accidents are no laughing matter. I've been in a life threatening one before (long before dash cameras were around). Cue a car flipping MULTIPLE times, landing on its roof, and serious injuries to some occupants. Luckily, I had cuts, bumps, a bloody nose, and bruises but was much luckier than others. In this wreck, I was an occupant and not a driver.

And since I've owned a dash camera, Ive had my car hit twice. Videos both times. Neither my fault.

Scenarios like these make it imperative that you have evidence of what transpired and there's no ambiguity. Video is the only way this happens, and buying a second camera doesn't mean I distrust my A129 Duo. It simply means that all things fail, and I will not be in a position of Murphy's Law. Where a failure costs me critical pieces of evidence.

As for your memory cards, I guess you are just an unlucky guy. Personally, over the last 11 years....

But this isn't a thread about memory cards, it is a thread about the reliability of the dash cam themselves.

Transcend Memory Cards. Horrible piles of trash. These are what were sold at retailer when I got my first Android phone. I used these cards thinking they were great. Not only did one fail, losing my vacation photos, but others have failed too. Luckily, I'd backed up these photos before that happened. These cards are around 10 yrs old, but they failed long before that point.

I also had one of my brand new Sandisk High Endurance fail. How do I know it's bad? Well it kept resulting in the camera failing to record (Zenfox). Which wasn't a known issue. The Zenfox would crash and shut down with heat. So I got a replacement card, and the Zenfox worked "normally" until it overheated would shut down. Although, my second "unmodified unit" did have the WIfi go bad on it. Very poor quality control and Fatal Flaws. But the unit itself worked fine so long as you didn't enable the wifi.

That being said, I tested the the faulty Sandisk after zero wiping it. And stuff I put on there would end up corrupted. The replacement seems OK for moment. My Sandisk A2 Extreme (Run these in Both A129 Duos) have never failed....Kind of odd since you'd expect the High Endurance to be the one lasting "forever".

 

[HonestReview]

No, CCTV cameras are not sitting in hot cars.

But CCTV cameras are hermetically sealed and waterproofed to IP 66 or higher for weather protection so they have zero ventilation like dash cams do, yet they operate 24/7, 365 days a year and often sit baking in the hot sun all day including in hot climates. Then they often get to run in sub zero temperatures for days and months in some locales. I've never had or seen one go out of focus or fail from environmental conditions. Unlike dash cams CCTV cameras are designed and built to handle these environments. Many of these cameras are widely available in the same price range as dash cams (or less) and in fact they use essentially the exact same DSPs (but configured for CCTV rather than dash cams) and the same sensors, along with very similar M12 or M14 lenses.

There are thousands of electronic products on the market that power cycle regularly without failure. Your average flat screen TV or car radio probably undergoes more power cycles per month than a dash cam.

I've read many of reviews where home security cameras have allowed water intrusion into the casing, failed, etc. Your consumer grade home security cameras are not as durable as you are leading us to believe. There's a wide range of "reliability" and "quality" in the CCTV market.

Those cameras you posted are definitely not consumer grade cameras. You often see those on businesses.

 

[Lothar]

I had another thought. There is a growing trend for car manufacturers to fit a variety of imaging devices around the car for numerous purposes, including parking assistance, accident avoidance, reading traffic signs, monitoring driver alertness and so on. I wonder how reliable they are?

If a dashcam was a factory-fitted item built into the car rather than a third-party add-on, would you expect 100% reliability from it? Or would you still supplement it with your own dashcam for redundancy?

Parking assistance: Very reliable (360 degree camera which is useful during parking). Not sure if it's necessary though if you're a good driver and can use regular mirrors or backup camera. If you're talking about "Tesla Summon", forget about that nonsense.
Accident avoidance: Very reliable as long as it's not inclement weather. It's saved my butt on a few occasions where I was following up too closely or a car cuts in front of me then the system sounds a warning and slams the brakes if evasive action is not taken.
Lane avoidance/guidance: Reliable as long as there's no inclement weather. It reads the lines on the road and gives a vibration on the steering wheel to warn me when crossing into another lane without trafficking.
Reading Traffic signs: Car doesn't have it? I thing my car has it when used with SD card satellite navigation, but I have never tried it since I prefer Google Maps/Android Auto. I have not heard of any car that has it as being reliable?
Driver alertness: Most monitor if you're holding the steering wheel. There are lots of YouTube videos of Tesla drivers showing "Look Ma, no hands!". As long as there is any weight on the steering wheel(doesn't have to be your hands), the system is fooled.

I'm a person that keeps my car for at least 10 years, if not more. I can't imaging keeping the same factory dashcam for 10 years. What was dashcam video quality like 10 years ago? 640x480 resolution? 360P? 480P? How many FPS?

 

[Lothar]

You have been extremely lucky.
Mirrorless and DSLR cameras are being made today with dual memory slots with the ability to write both cards simultaneously with the same pictures precisely because memory cards fail so often. My father had a memory card fail in his camera in a way that prevented the camera from turning on. He thought his camera had failed and sent it in for repair. I have had a high quality memory stick fail in my Tesla in less than 3 months. I have had other SD cards fail as well.
You are right, this is not a thread about memory cards, but since every dash cam relies on memory cards, memory cards are a huge cause of dash cam failure.

BTW dual memory card slots in a dashcam would be a great reliability improvement.

It seems to me that in dashcams, the memory card is usually one of the major suspects.
Maybe the solution is to take that out, similar to what the phone manufacturers have done in how there are barely any phones with SD card expansion slots in this day and age. They all have onboard UFS 2.0, 3.0, and 3.1 flash storage NAND that is likely faster and better than using SD cards which can be a hit or miss in quality depending on the card manufacturer or dashcam. And as a backup, it can backup all videos to the cloud using some Google Drive/Photos API as long as there's an internet connection on the dashcam device, or for those who can hotspot on their phone, own a wifi hotspot device, are parked near a wifi network, or have a connected LTE car? All pictures and videos on my phone are backed up to Google Photos automatically as long as there is an internet connection on my phone without me having to manually fiddle with anything like an SD card. Replace Google with your preferred cloud provider(DropBox, Microsoft, etc...) if you like. If my Android phone can do this, why can't this be possible in a dashcam?

Perhaps @jokiin or another dashcam manufacturer may comment on this?

 

[HonestReview]

@Lothar

My Volvo doesn't have all the bells and whistles. Only Blindspot, Rear Backup Camera, and and Front + Rear Paring Sensors + City Safety which only crash avoidances up to 50KM/Hr (30 MPH). It's a 2015 and they had Adaptive Cruise Control + Lane Departure + Crash Avoidance at High Speed, but my vehicle didn't have it. I'd been without a car for 4 months after mine got wrecked, and the one I wanted sold. So I kind of "settled" on what I could find available at the time. I'd had enough of borrowing a car from family.

That being said, I've had loaner and rentals with lane departure and that drives me nuts. Very aggressive. I do however wish I had adaptive cruise control. Where you can set a speed and a distance from the car in front of you, and it'll pace the vehicle to keep a proper following distance. Decreasing or increasing speed as necessary. Would have been a nice addtion.

Not tested Autonomous Driving / Pilot Assist. That wasn't available when I bought my Volvo and not had a loaner or rental with that feature.

Some of these "safety features" are more gimmicky and annoying than helpful. Others are life savers. Technology is always changing, but that means cars get more and more expensive!

 

[jokiin]

memory cards are for sure the weakest link for any camera, there are some cameras already that have used onboard storage rather than a memory card, I don't think they've been particularly well received by consumers though, I don't believe the tech is quite there yet for what we need, the consumers don't appear to be ready for it either, perhaps it will transition that way but even if it does I don't see it happening quickly

 

[HonestReview]

memory cards are for sure the weakest link for any camera, there are some cameras already that have used onboard storage rather than a memory card, I don't think they've been particularly well received by consumers though, I don't believe the tech is quite there yet for what we need, the consumers don't appear to be ready for it either, perhaps it will transition that way but even if it does I don't see it happening quickly

From what I've read (not first hand experience) Dash Camera ownership is highest in Russia and China due to pervasive insurance fraud. With Russia also having serious concerns over police interactions (corruption).

For the rest of the world, Dash Camera adoption seems pretty low, if I were to venture a guess. Still a "Very Nice Market" of enthusiasts. According to your findings, 3 channel cameras have even less a market (surprising). I would think Uber, Lyft, and Taxi services would be craving 3 channel But again, I guess "privacy", "Vary Laws by Country", etc have all lead to sporadic adoption.

I don't know if Dash Cams will ever be the norm. As people may cry privacy invasion if manufacturers install by default. Outside of Tesla, I'm not aware of any other automaker that integrates cameras to record driving. And Tesla's cameras recording feature I believe was an after thought.

 

[jokiin]

recent model Corvette has dashcam functionality built in, it's not something that works all the time though as is really targeted at track days, autocross etc

some other car makers have put their brand on dashcams as a genuine accessory, but not something they're integrating at this stage

 

[HonestReview]

recent model Corvette has dashcam functionality built in, it's not something that works all the time though as is really targeted at track days, autocross etc

some other car makers have put their brand on dashcams as a genuine accessory, but not something they're integrating at this stage

Volvo has a Branded Dash Camera sold in Malaysia Only. Bit odd for what that's worth. Seems half baked idea to have a single market.

I think car manufacturers are worried about liability and privacy. I mean if the camera fails to capture an accident, is the manufacturer going to have a million attorneys lining up to sue them? Will consumers fear being "monitored". If a car has "built in recording", then is this video mandatory to be turned over? And then every country has different laws about recording. So you then face market challenges where One country Permits, another bans, and some are a "grey area".

Which is why aftermarket manufacturers (such as Street Guardian) are supplying the market far more than manufacturers.

 

[jokiin]

Volvo has a Branded Dash Camera sold in Malaysia Only. Bit odd for what that's worth. Seems half baked idea to have a single market.

not at all, many reasons why they would do that, market test, market demand, legal issues etc

I think car manufacturers are worried about liability and privacy. I mean if the camera fails to capture an accident, is the manufacturer going to have a million attorneys lining up to sue them? Will consumers fear being "monitored". If a car has "built in recording", then is this video mandatory to be turned over? And then every country has different laws about recording. So you then face market challenges where One country Permits, another bans, and some are a "grey area".

massive can of worms when it comes to integrating it into the vehicle, would keep the lawyers busy for a very long time trying to work out their obligations/liabilities in each sales region

 

[Lothar]

@Lothar

My Volvo doesn't have all the bells and whistles. Only Blindspot, Rear Backup Camera, and and Front + Rear Paring Sensors + City Safety which only crash avoidances up to 50KM/Hr (30 MPH). It's a 2015 and they had Adaptive Cruise Control + Lane Departure + Crash Avoidance at High Speed, but my vehicle didn't have it. I'd been without a car for 4 months after mine got wrecked, and the one I wanted sold. So I kind of "settled" on what I could find available at the time. I'd had enough of borrowing a car from family.

That being said, I've had loaner and rentals with lane departure and that drives me nuts. Very aggressive. I do however wish I had adaptive cruise control. Where you can set a speed and a distance from the car in front of you, and it'll pace the vehicle to keep a proper following distance. Decreasing or increasing speed as necessary. Would have been a nice addtion.

Not tested Autonomous Driving / Pilot Assist. That wasn't available when I bought my Volvo and not had a loaner or rental with that feature.

Some of these "safety features" are more gimmicky and annoying than helpful. Others are life savers. Technology is always changing, but that means cars get more and more expensive!

Thankfully mine does not auto-steer at all, it only gives a very loud vibration on the steering wheel akin to driving on the bumper strip on a highway.
I have a 2021 Mazda CX-5 GTR.

Adaptive cruise control is a Godsend. I can no longer drive a car long distance without it.

memory cards are for sure the weakest link for any camera, there are some cameras already that have used onboard storage rather than a memory card, I don't think they've been particularly well received by consumers though, I don't believe the tech is quite there yet for what we need, the consumers don't appear to be ready for it either, perhaps it will transition that way but even if it does I don't see it happening quickly

That's because those dashcams used eMMC storage which is slow as molasses rather than UFS storage?
May also have to do with the size of the storage? 16GB eMMC is nothing...Should offer 64GB or 128GB like most phones.

 

[jokiin]

That's because those dashcams used eMMC storage which is slow as molasses rather than UFS storage?
May also have to do with the size of the storage? 16GB eMMC is nothing...Should offer 64GB or 128GB like most phones.

I wasn't referring to the Viofo model with built in eMMC, there have been other models well before that, including with larger memory, they didn't seem to find a market though anyway, too soon perhaps, hard to say

 

[Lothar]

I wasn't referring to the Viofo model with built in eMMC, there have been other models well before that, including with larger memory, they didn't seem to find a market though anyway, too soon perhaps, hard to say

Didn't mean to infer that, what happened was after seeing your post I looked up which dashcam has onboard storage today(as I was never aware there was even such a thing in a dashcam), and I saw one that used eMMC and not UFS or NVMe as a standard. And I saw that it was 16GB.

eMMC is not an adequate solution for something that is write intensive like a dashcam. eMMC slows down after sometime/somewrites and it is very noticeable.
UFS or NVMe storage would be a much better onboard solution. I'm not sure what storage method/specification the earlier dashcam models that you mentioned used but I think that I can safely guess that they did not use UFS or NVMe?

 

[Dashmellow]

You come off as Egotistical, Snarky, and Condescending. Makes it very hard to be nice, since you spend every post belittling people.

But fine. I'll answer this concisely.

You're nice? Now that's a laugh.

And once again, we get to witness you projecting your personal behavior onto others. Just yesterday, I commented that It is seems impossible for you to engage in any discussion without resorting to demeaning insults and belittling people , so now, the very next day you accuse me of belittling people. And you've done exactly the same thing several other times now. It's really rather amusing at this point.

"Concisely"? You're kidding right?

I don't know that I've ever seen such a manic screed like this on DCT. This astonishing logorrhea you engage in here seems full of nothing but denial, misinformation and made up factoids.

And as I said earlier, it is quite remarkable seeing someone having to replacing more than one brand new 200-300 dollar camera, spend month after month complaining loudly about all the problems and issues they've encountered suddenly start pounding the table about how reliable they've been and how pleased they are with their purchases.

Speaking of denial, if you feel the need to add another camera for redundancy go right ahead, but don't try to tell us you are confident that your first camera will be there for you when you need it. Either, you trust it to be "100% reliable" as you claim it to be or you don't. You obviously don't.

 

[Dashmellow]

I've read many of reviews where home security cameras have allowed water intrusion into the casing, failed, etc. Your consumer grade home security cameras are not as durable as you are leading us to believe. There's a wide range of "reliability" and "quality" in the CCTV market.

Those cameras you posted are definitely not consumer grade cameras. You often see those on businesses.

You make it clear that you know little regarding many of the subjects you pontificate about. I don't really care how many reviews you have read. I've based my opinions on more than a decade of hands on experience plus what friends and colleagues have shared with me about their CCTV systems. Like anything, some do fail occasionally, but the point is that CCTV cameras tend to be FAR more reliable than dash cams and usually can be relied upon to run years on end 24/7 in very challenging conditions without a hiccup.

As for what I posted, you don't seem to know what you are looking at. The first image shows a standard consumer grade CCTV bullet camera similar to one of the models in my system. The second image is indeed of more commercial level cameras.

But, as is so often the case, you miss the point again. I posted those images in reply to your erroneous claim that CCTV cameras don't sit "baking in the sun all day". They do!