Dash Cam Reliability

[HonestReview]

@HonestReview, you failed to mention that your first A129 Duo needed to be replaced and you initially complained about issues with your second one. How long have you had the A129 Duo that you are now designating it as reliable? Most every product I own that costs what the A129 Duo costs or the A139 costs go for years trouble free. With dash cams concluding that a camera is "reliable" after only months is not realistic. You are also waiting for your A139 replacement too, no?

Raid hard drives are a different breed of cat. Backing up massive amounts of data because equipment might fail "at some point" is not the same as having a primary product that is well known for often failing right out of the starting gate or shortly thereafter. Memory cards are a separate issue from dash cam hardware, just as hard drives and raid hard drives are essentially a separate issue from the computers themselves. You are redundantly backing up data, not running a duplicate computer. A closer analogy might be simultaneously running two computers side by side because you fear that one of them will crash or go up in smoke at any moment.

Is English not your first language! I answered the ownership length of my A129 NUMEROUS TIMES> Two, Dos, två.....Do I need to write this more clear in some other language for you to comprehend? Both Replacement and the 2nd Camera I purchased have been owned and running over 2 years......PROBLEM FREE. Minus the Dupe Frame Bug. Cameras have never Froze, Lost Video, etc.

I've had COUNTLESS memory cards fail. One taking with my trip photos which I neglected to back up. And NUMEROUS Thumb Drives.

The point, which you again don't grasp, is that solely relying upon one item where you're placing an upmost importance, is a recipe for failure. Just as Memory Cards, Thumb Drives, and Hard Drives Die (which can take with it CRITICAL FILES), having a backup is key.

One Dash Cam is Great. If it fails and you need an accident / event video, you're screwed. Two Dash Cameras (redundancy), gives greater reassurances that at least one works.

.....Can lead a horse to water...Can't make it drink....

FYI: Did I mention the A139 being reliable? No... Stop putting words in my mouth. I can't say YES or NO until I get a replacement. Mass Production does lead to failures. Doesn't mean these failures result in a "Bad Product". Especially if a Replacement works just fine. I.E. my A129 Duo for last 2 years.

 

[HonestReview]

Speaking of reliability, maybe dash cam manufacturers should take a page from surveillance industry where most problems have been solved.
Power interruptions, harsh environment, image quality - all are basic things that even more expensive dash cams on the market seem to struggle with.
I've had five Hiks running more than five years 24/7 without a hitch...

Home surveillance camera aren't sitting in a HOT enclosed car baking in the sun all day...Nor are these cameras being subjected to regular power cycling...Apples to oranges.

 

[TonyM]

Just to ask an open question here. Do we need our dashcams to be 100% reliable?

Are they so essential that we will not drive without one (or more)? Is your insurance invalid without a dashcam? Are you guaranteed to lose any 'he said / she said' dispute if you don't have a dashcam?

Even if it is working properly, there can only be a small percentage of cases where the recorded video & audio is good enough to make a difference in the outcome of any dispute.

 

[TonyM]

I had another thought. There is a growing trend for car manufacturers to fit a variety of imaging devices around the car for numerous purposes, including parking assistance, accident avoidance, reading traffic signs, monitoring driver alertness and so on. I wonder how reliable they are?

If a dashcam was a factory-fitted item built into the car rather than a third-party add-on, would you expect 100% reliability from it? Or would you still supplement it with your own dashcam for redundancy?

 

[Lothar]

No got rid of my first and only TV over a year ago, but i had it for like 10 years.
No i was not saying TVs die often, if you look past the Samsung planned obsolescence fiasco some years ago ( capacitors in them dying too early )
But with the number of Tvs most people now have, it could be taken as a fear of one of them stop working, hell even my sister have 2 TVs one in the living room and one in her bedroom.

I don't know of anyone who have 2 TV's in their household because of a fear that one of them could stop working.
There are people that have TV's in their bedroom because they watch(or listen to) the morning news and weather before going to work while getting ready in their bedroom/bathroom. There are others that have TV's in their bedroom because they want it as a convenience for whatever reason. There are others that have a house with multiple floors/living rooms. Also depends on how big the house is and how many people are living in it.

I personally don't have a TV in my bedroom because I'm of the belief that the bedroom is for sleeping.
We have one in our living room upstairs and another in our living room downstairs, neither of which were bought out of the fear of the other not working.

 

[HonestReview]

Just to ask an open question here. Do we need our dashcams to be 100% reliable?

Are they so essential that we will not drive without one (or more)? Is your insurance invalid without a dashcam? Are you guaranteed to lose any 'he said / she said' dispute if you don't have a dashcam?

Even if it is working properly, there can only be a small percentage of cases where the recorded video & audio is good enough to make a difference in the outcome of any dispute.

I had someone rear end my car. Then their insurance tried to lie and say he wasn't responsible. Lot's of lame excuses. I went along with the charade, finally asking for an email address. Wouldn't you know, not 15 minutes later, I was called back by an agent stuttering and tripping over their own words. Flabbergasted that their lies had been put to rest. Most satisfying moment ever.

 

[SawMaster]

Just to ask an open question here. Do we need our dashcams to be 100% reliable?

Are they so essential that we will not drive without one (or more)? Is your insurance invalid without a dashcam? Are you guaranteed to lose any 'he said / she said' dispute if you don't have a dashcam?

Even if it is working properly, there can only be a small percentage of cases where the recorded video & audio is good enough to make a difference in the outcome of any dispute.

Yes we need 100% reliability. Our cams are for documenting events, and we can't have that done well with anything missing.

Yes they are essential to me. I rarely drive someone else's vehicle but when and where possible I'll stick a dashcam ASAP. While the lack of a cam doesn't affect anything else as someone who has thrice been adversely affected by liars and connivers regarding driving incidents I feel naked and unprotected without my cam(s).

A small percentage? I think it's the opposite, for the dashcam always shows your own movements, lane positioning, and speed not only in an event but before (and sometimes after) too. Being able to show and prove that you've done no wrong throughout proves that you bear no fault, thus fault has to belong to whoever else is involved.

A dashcam can't do everything or prove everything, nor can it force an outcome, but almost all the time it's enough to protect you from wrongful acts by drivers, Police, and insurance companies. How well can it do this if it's not 100% reliable and the images it shows not clear enough to give you needed details?

Phil

 

[HonestReview]

I had another thought. There is a growing trend for car manufacturers to fit a variety of imaging devices around the car for numerous purposes, including parking assistance, accident avoidance, reading traffic signs, monitoring driver alertness and so on. I wonder how reliable they are?

If a dashcam was a factory-fitted item built into the car rather than a third-party add-on, would you expect 100% reliability from it? Or would you still supplement it with your own dashcam for redundancy?

Tesla cams actually double as Dashcams, too. Lots of Tesla videos out there. Kind of cool concept. Not sure reliability though.

 

[jokiin]

We have 2 TV's, one is on the way out and will die sometime soon, has vertical lines on the display, probably would have died already if it wasn't for the fact that TV barely gets turned on in our house, an hour a week at most, sometimes they go for weeks at a time without getting used at all

 

[HonestReview]

Yes we need 100% reliability. Our cams are for documenting events, and we can't have that done well with anything missing.

Yes they are essential to me. I rarely drive someone else's vehicle but when and where possible I'll stick a dashcam ASAP. While the lack of a cam doesn't affect anything else as someone who has thrice been adversely affected by liars and connivers regarding driving incidents I feel naked and unprotected without my cam(s).

A small percentage? I think it's the opposite, for the dashcam always shows your own movements, lane positioning, and speed not only in an event but before (and sometimes after) too. Being able to show and prove that you've done no wrong throughout proves that you bear no fault, thus fault has to belong to whoever else is involved.

A dashcam can't do everything or prove everything, nor can it force an outcome, but almost all the time it's enough to protect you from wrongful acts by drivers, Police, and insurance companies. How well can it do this if it's not 100% reliable and the images it shows not clear enough to give you needed details?

Phil

Hit and runs, accidents that happen "suddenly and out of nowhere" where the driver doesn't see it coming (someone blows through light intersection, etc), or accidents that render a driver incapacitated and unable to recall the events that transpired, etc.

I agree, lots of scenarios where Dashcam's are invaluable.

The flip side, dashcams can also bite you in the ass. Although, nothing requires you turn over or admit to having video if you are at fault....Camera wasn't setup, memory card, didn't work, etc etc.

 

[Dashmellow]

Is English not your first language! I answered the ownership length of my A129 NUMEROUS TIMES> Two, Dos, två.....Do I need to write this more clear in some other language for you to comprehend? Both Replacement and the 2nd Camera I purchased have been owned and running over 2 years......PROBLEM FREE. Minus the Dupe Frame Bug. Cameras have never Froze, Lost Video, etc.

I've had COUNTLESS memory cards fail. One taking with my trip photos which I neglected to back up. And NUMEROUS Thumb Drives.

The point, which you again don't grasp, is that solely relying upon one item where you're placing an upmost importance, is a recipe for failure. Just as Memory Cards, Thumb Drives, and Hard Drives Die (which can take with it CRITICAL FILES), having a backup is key.

One Dash Cam is Great. If it fails and you need an accident / event video, you're screwed. Two Dash Cameras (redundancy), gives greater reassurances that at least one works.

.....Can lead a horse to water...Can't make it drink....

FYI: Did I mention the A139 being reliable? No... Stop putting words in my mouth. I can't say YES or NO until I get a replacement. Mass Production does lead to failures. Doesn't mean these failures result in a "Bad Product". Especially if a Replacement works just fine. I.E. my A129 Duo for last 2 years.

It is obviously impossible for you to engage in any discussion without resorting to demeaning insults and belittling people. You've exhibited this sort of behavior towards me and many others repeatedly ever since you joined the forum. Apparently, you have an abusive personality and I am surprised that you haven't gotten yourself booted from the forum (yet).

I don't think there is another member on the forum who has whined and complained about camera problems and failures quite as much as you have. In post after post of yours, you've complained about one problem or issue after another.

You conveniently left off the fact here that your first A129 was defective and that you had issues with the replacement. You've complained about the Viofo WiFi app and connectivity issues, You went on Ad nauseam about dupped frames and spent a lot of time attacking Viofo as a company over this and other issues, you complained about your CPL performance, etc., etc., etc.

Now you are also "Not a happy camper with the A139" and you are awaiting a replacement and you just go on and on and on with your complaints. It is truly amazing to see how many posts you've indulged in to voice your problems.

You had similar problems with the ZenFox, but you rationalize that as a beta tester it doesn't count somehow, even though you reported that the camera "melted " on you or something like that. Many of us here have been beta testers but the cameras usually don't go up in smoke.

Well, that's a hell of a track record you've had and you certainly let us all know every gory detail. Now you are touting how reliable your A129 seems to be. Well, you can't have it both ways!

I'm glad your A129 is finally working for you (for now). But you behave as if everything revolves around you and your own personal experiences with your cameras except that you are missing the big picture being presented here and disregarding others other members testimony regarding the fact that as a product category as a whole, dash cams are inherently unreliable and experience failure rates across a broad spectrum of issues far in excess of any other consumer electronic product category on the market.

You are in the company of many, many others who have had to have their dash cams replaced before they got one they could rely on (including me multiple times), except that you are reporting two for two bad cams delivered to you so far. (or perhaps it's three - counting the ZenFox?)

It has been pointed out to you that many other members have more than one camera running in case one should fail. It's your privilege to do so. But your desire to have two cameras informs us that you don't really trust your A129 to come through for you if you should need it. But you claim it to be "reliable".

Either your A129 is as "reliable" as you claim, or it isn't. Like I said, you can't have it both ways.


As for your memory cards, I guess you are just an unlucky guy. Personally, over the last 11 years I've experienced very few card failures. In fact, as a professional photographer who has shot tens of thousands of images on memory cards, I've never had a single memory card failure. I have never had a thumb drive fail and I own quite a few. With dash cams, I've had one card that failed prematurely, one that was questionable so I took it out of service and several other microSD cards that all eventually died of old age after years in daily service. One card lasted 7 years in daily use.

But this isn't a thread about memory cards, it is a thread about the reliability of the dash cam themselves.

 

[Dashmellow]

Home surveillance camera aren't sitting in a HOT enclosed car baking in the sun all day...Nor are these cameras being subjected to regular power cycling...Apples to oranges.

No, CCTV cameras are not sitting in hot cars.

But CCTV cameras are hermetically sealed and waterproofed to IP 66 or higher for weather protection so they have zero ventilation like dash cams do, yet they operate 24/7, 365 days a year and often sit baking in the hot sun all day including in hot climates. Then they often get to run in sub zero temperatures for days and months in some locales. I've never had or seen one go out of focus or fail from environmental conditions. Unlike dash cams CCTV cameras are designed and built to handle these environments. Many of these cameras are widely available in the same price range as dash cams (or less) and in fact they use essentially the exact same DSPs (but configured for CCTV rather than dash cams) and the same sensors, along with very similar M12 or M14 lenses.

There are thousands of electronic products on the market that power cycle regularly without failure. Your average flat screen TV or car radio probably undergoes more power cycles per month than a dash cam.

 

[DAP]

If a dashcam was a factory-fitted item built into the car rather than a third-party add-on, would you expect 100% reliability from it? Or would you still supplement it with your own dashcam for redundancy?

I already have. I have a Tesla model 3 that has a built in 4 camera dashcam that has already failed to record an event. I have suplemented it with two Viofo A129 pro cameras front and rear. Redundancy is the only defense we have against the unreliability of dash cams.
And yes dash cams save a huge amount of grief dealing with he said she said arguments. The video ends them immediately. I lost out once when while stopped an a left turn light, the car in front of me backed into me and rammed his trailer hitch into my bumper. I did not have a dash cam at the time. He was believed and I was not.

 

[kamkar]

A black camera on a white wall, that got to be as hot as things get
Only thing i will say in this debate is CCTV cameras often use a lower bitrate, even compared to dashcams that them self do not have high bitrates.

go for weeks at a time without getting used at all

As i see it the only validation for a TV is to get informed, but as the state of journalism are so poor, you cant even get that on a TV.
Granted a TV would be nice to have so you could use it for entertainment now and then taking in a movie, and having a TV for just that is also fairly cheap.
You could also do some documentaries to get wiser which is always good, but those are not prevalent enough in flow TV that i can justify that price, but there is places to source that as streaming.

Regarding Tesla and their cameras, then true, there are even youtube channels featuring just that, but like ordinary after market dashcams we never hear about the times where the system fail.
And i am also pretty sure there are some small letters in the papers on a Tesla saying that these cameras if they fail, Tesla can not be blamed.

 

[DAP]

As for your memory cards, I guess you are just an unlucky guy. Personally, over the last 11 years I've experienced very few card failures. In fact, as a professional photographer who has shot tens of thousands of images on memory cards, I've never had a single memory card failure. I have never had a thumb drive fail and I own quite a few. With dash cams, I've had one card that failed prematurely, one that was questionable so I took it out of service and several other microSD cards that all eventually died of old age after years in daily service. One card lasted 7 years in daily use.

But this isn't a thread about memory cards, it is a thread about the reliability of the dash cam themselves

You have been extremely lucky.
Mirrorless and DSLR cameras are being made today with dual memory slots with the ability to write both cards simultaneously with the same pictures precisely because memory cards fail so often. My father had a memory card fail in his camera in a way that prevented the camera from turning on. He thought his camera had failed and sent it in for repair. I have had a high quality memory stick fail in my Tesla in less than 3 months. I have had other SD cards fail as well.
You are right, this is not a thread about memory cards, but since every dash cam relies on memory cards, memory cards are a huge cause of dash cam failure.

BTW dual memory card slots in a dashcam would be a great reliability improvement.

 

[DAP]

Regarding Tesla and their cameras, then true, there are even youtube channels featuring just that, but like ordinary after market dashcams we never hear about the times where the system fail.

You have not been reading the right forums if you have not heard about TeslaCAM failures. TeslaCAM was added as an afterthought when they realized that they already had cameras for the full self driving built into the car. The cameras are low resolution and use weird color sensors that are optimized for high dynamic range, so picture quality is poor. Quite often people report that they have recording before, and after, but not during an accident. My theory is that the AI gets busy processing the activity during an accident, and does not have any cycles left to save the video for the dashcam. There are also endless threads about the "memory card too slow" error messages that start showing up when the memory stick starts wearing out and slowing down.

 

[DAP]

Again, more like CCTV camera reliability. They usually run 24/7 for months and years at a time in very challenging environments and very wide temperature extremes with zero failures.

I think you have too high an opinion on the quality of security cameras. I once asked to see camera footage for some incident where I worked in a new building no more than 2 years old, and was told that the camera in question was not working.
I saw another camera in a globe outside that was half filled with water.
Nothing is fool proof or 100% reliable. It is always a matter of degree.

 

[Dashmellow]

You have been extremely lucky.
Mirrorless and DSLR cameras are being made today with dual memory slots with the ability to write both cards simultaneously with the same pictures precisely because memory cards fail so often. My father had a memory card fail in his camera in a way that prevented the camera from turning on. He thought his camera had failed and sent it in for repair. I have had a high quality memory stick fail in my Tesla in less than 3 months. I have had other SD cards fail as well.
You are right, this is not a thread about memory cards, but since every dash cam relies on memory cards, memory cards are a huge cause of dash cam failure.

BTW dual memory card slots in a dashcam would be a great reliability improvement.

The mini 0806 had dual microSD slots. Unfortunately, the whole scheme never quite worked out well so it was discontinued in later models. One of my DSLRs has two slots like you describe.

I recognize that I've had good luck with memory cards but I think some of that has to do with good management practices. Often I see all the complaints about cards on the forum and I wonder what all the fuss is about. For example, for a period the standard advice was to avoid SanDisk Ultra cards in dash cam because the have the habit of flipping to read only. But I already had several and I continued to use them for years without problems. The one I mentioned that lasted 7 years was a GREY and RED SanDisk Ultra - go figure? Many people do report failures. And today's dash cams are more demanding of memory cards than with older dash cameras. Of course, it is important to purchase quality memory from a reliable source. Often, when we see reports of card issues there turns out to be some tangential explanation.

Although microSD cards are a constant source of problems for some dash cam users my feeling is that this thread should concentrate on dash cam hardware and firmware rather then memory. There are quite a few threads on the forum already dedicated to discussions about memory cards and it just confuses the issue here. It's not that they shouldn't be mentioned, some cameras have a habit of corrupting cards for example, but I do see it as a separate topic.

 

[Dashmellow]

I think you have too high an opinion on the quality of security cameras. I once asked to see camera footage for some incident where I worked in a new building no more than 2 years old, and was told that the camera in question was not working.
I saw another camera in a globe outside that was half filled with water.
Nothing is fool proof or 100% reliable. It is always a matter of degree.

Like everything else CCTV cams do fail but in 12 years of running a multi-cam CCTV system the reliability has been superb. Far more reliable and trustworthy than dash cams as a product category in my view.
I've had to replace a few CCTV cams. Two of them had the IR emitters begin to fail because they reached the end of their 50,000 hour rated lifespan. Another camera fell victim to a woodpecker that destroyed the cable near where it enters the camera. One of my cams has been running 24/7 for the whole 12 years and is still performing like when it was new. Part of the day it sits in direct sun.

Edit: Actually, I have had to replace a couple of older cables that has some moisture intrusion problems but I see that as a separate issue from the reliability of the cams themselves. HIgher quality, heavy duty cabling from a reputable supplier was the way to go.

 

[SawMaster]

My TV is an old picture-tube kind, big and heavy. No space for it where I last lived and no good place for it here. Sister has hers in the living room but I'm never in there being something of a hermit As I haven't watched two minutes of TV in over 3 years and don't feel any need to, I'm now looking to give the thing away. One of the better decisions I've made in my life I think

Phil