HDR will be added on A119

[Dashmellow]

that's what happens, whether you like it or not it's the reality of what goes on, there are thousands of companies making cameras, the majority out of China and I could think of maybe 5 or 10 that publish accurate information, too many just cut and paste whatever was on their last model and accuracy goes out the window

You of all people should strive for better but I'm beginning to think that interferes with your business model. I know you don't like to hear it but your industry makes gadgets, not "real" cameras. I hope that changes one day but I am pessimistic.

 

[jokiin]

You of all people should strive for better but I'm beginning to think that interferes with your business model. I know you don't like to hear it but your industry makes gadgets, not "real" cameras. I hope that changes one day but I am pessimistic.

I can't change what others in the industry do

 

[Dashmellow]

I can't change what others in the industry do

You can change what YOU do.

 

[Gibson99]

You can change what YOU do.

I think he's already differentiated himself from the other 98% by actually spending time developing products properly rather than pump n dump. that and he's here, listening to what we have to say, so that his future products fit what we want (within the budget and available hardware at the time).

 

[Nigel]

I guess if one wants to get fussy about things, multiple exposure is HDR, a different thing entirely, except with similar intended results.

That is no longer true, and different people always used the terms differently anyway! Now that HDR TVs have arrived, HDR simply means a range of 1 billion colours instead of the traditional 16 million. 10 bit colour instead of 8 bit colour. All our current dashcams are 8 bit output and so if they claim to be HDR, they are only fake HDR!

In photography HDR used to mean multiple exposures, but only because that was the only way to do it, then it changed to mean a tone mapped image where a 10 bit source range had been artificially squashed into an 8 bit output image, then with better sensors it just came to mean tone mapped since you don't actually need 10 bits to get the effect.

In dashcams there are many ways to extend the range of the sensor, multiple exposures of the frame is just one of them, multiple exposures of each image line is another which substantially reduces the amount of motion blur for each line, having bright and dark pixels on the sensor is another where there is only one exposure but 2 simultaneous image brightnesses with no extra motion blur between the bright and dark. Of course you can also use a sensor that outputs 10 bit image data as standard, which actually nearly all of them do!

I think all these systems should be called WDR, as Sony has been calling them, since currently they are all producing 8 bit video, true HDR dashcams will arrive when they start using 10 bit H265 or 10 bit AV1 to store real 10 bit video, then they will be HDR even if they don't use WDR techniques to create it.

For now the HDR on the A119 will be fake HDR since the output video will be 8 bit with tone mapping. It will however give a significant improvement to the readability of license plates lit by bright headlights, a big improvement on the previous WDR that only improved the dark areas. It might be better to call it WDR+.

Note that the Amberella processor based dashcams have been doing this for years. The mini 0806 using the same sensor had multiple exposure "HDR" from launch with 4 exposures making up the final image, it tended to cause a fair amount of blurring at dusk because the merging of the frames was extremely basic, not necessarily an advantage, Novatek and Viofo appear to be doing a much better job of it.

 

[rsilvers]

Maybe have a mode that uses 1440P/30 during the day (for more ability to read plates), and 1080P/HDR at night (for more ability to read plates).

 

[Dashmellow]

HDR has become what amounts to marketing term and corporations appear to apply the terms WDR or HDR rather loosely now but the fact is they are not the same thing.

HDR TV is a display technology that has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand which is image capture, so why drag it into the discussion? You can read all about HDR TV in an excellent basic article on the subject on C/net, titled, "HDR for photography vs. HDR for TVs: What's the difference? The article not only explains the technology but also correctly identifies photographic HDR capture as a multiple exposure technique. Also see: "Photo HDR isn't TV HDR" - "One of the most important things to know about HDR TVs is that TV HDR is not the same as photo HDR".

This began as a discussion specific to the techniques used in dash cams. Jokiin stated that WDR and HDR are the same technology in dash cams but that is not quite accurate despite the misinformation floating around.

So far we have only seen two methods employed in dash cams for dynamic range management - WDR and HDR. HDR is a photography concept while WDR is a term that first appeared in the CCTV industry.

At its heart, WDR functionality in dash cams is nothing more than a modification of the contrast curve to boost the shadow details in high contrast scenarios. It does little or nothing to control blown out highlight details in the upper tonal range and has been known to occasionally compromise footage in other situations.

Actual HDR in dash cams has employed synchronized dual imaging. One of the best examples we've seen was in the first iteration of the Mobius 2 which provided spectacular HDR results. Unfortunately, the technique compromised other IQ aspects such as detail in objects in motion that had a lot of texture which led to HDR being abandoned in the M2.

One of the problems with multi-frame HDR in dash cams appears to be the limited processing power of the SoC chipsets used in dash cams. What might work easily for even a primitive still camera is not quite so easy for a $100 SoC video camera like the A119. Still, if Viofo can make this work we are in store for some exciting things. Of course, we are still waiting for more information regarding how exactly they are approaching HDR. And you know, considering this absurd debate I am at least gratified to see that Viofo indeed actually uses the term "HDR".

BTW, here is an early example of the Mobius 2 split 60/30 fps dual frame HDR at work. It produced spectacular results, not only in the extreme highlights while maintaining a natural blue sky but in also dramatically opening up the shadows. Here is it compared to the SG9665GC to give you an idea of just what can be accomplished. In all fairness to Street Guardian this example is from the period before the AE tables were finally addressed in new firmware after about a year and a half after the first complaints about the problem started rolling in so the dynamic range problem seen here is exaggerated. Recent GC firmware is dramatically improved over what you see here so keep that in mind. It is presented here merely to illustrate the potential of true HDR vs WDR (which was enabled on the GC, btw.) This is the only synchronized comparison I happen to have around between two cameras from the time period when the M2 still employed the dual frame HDR technique in its firmware.

 

[estore009]

HDR has become what amounts to marketing term and corporations appear to apply the terms WDR or HDR rather loosely now but the fact is they are not the same thing.

HDR TV is a display technology that has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand which is image capture, so why drag it into the discussion? You can read all about HDR TV in an excellent basic article on the subject on C/net, titled, "HDR for photography vs. HDR for TVs: What's the difference? The article not only explains the technology but also correctly identifies photographic HDR capture as a multiple exposure technique. Also see: "Photo HDR isn't TV HDR" - "One of the most important things to know about HDR TVs is that TV HDR is not the same as photo HDR".

This began as a discussion specific to the techniques used in dash cams. Jokiin stated that WDR and HDR are the same technology in dash cams but that is not quite accurate despite the misinformation floating around.

So far we have only seen two methods employed in dash cams for dynamic range management - WDR and HDR. HDR is a photography concept while WDR is a term that first appeared in the CCTV industry.

At its heart, WDR functionality in dash cams is nothing more than a modification of the contrast curve to boost the shadow details in high contrast scenarios. It does little or nothing to control blown out highlight details in the upper tonal range and has been known to occasionally compromise footage in other situations.

Actual HDR in dash cams has employed synchronized dual imaging. One of the best examples we've seen was in the first iteration of the Mobius 2 which provided spectacular HDR results. Unfortunately, the technique compromised other IQ aspects such as detail in in object in motion that had a lot of texture which led to HDR being abandoned in the M2.

One of the problems with multi-frame HDR in dash cams appears to be the limited processing power of the SoC chipsets used in dash cams. What might work easily for even a primitive still camera is no quite so easy for a $100 SoC video camera like the A119. Still, if Viofo can make this work we are in store for some exciting things. Of course, we are still waiting for more information regarding how exactly they are approaching HDR. And you know, considering this absurd debate I am at least gratified to see that Viofo indeed actually uses the term "HDR".

BTW, here is an early example of the Mobius 2 split 60/30 fps dual frame HDR at work. It produced spectacular results, not only in the extreme highlights but in dramatically opening up the shadows. Here is it compared to the SG9665GC to give you an idea of just what can be accomplished. In all fairness to Street Guardian this example is from the period before the AE tables were finally addressed in new firmware after about a year and a half after the first complaints about the problem started rolling in so the dynamic range problem seen here is exaggerated. Recent GC firmware is dramatically improved over what you see here so keep that in mind. It is presented here merely to illustrate the potential of true HDR vs WDR (which was enabled on the GC, btw.) This is the only synchronized comparison I have between two cameras from the time when the M2 still employed the dual frame HDR technique in its firmware.

View attachment 33667

View attachment 33668

Thanks for long writing here,we need to take much time to read and understand it well.

 

[Forsberg]

Hopefully soon HDR will be available. Now it is either blown sky (purely white) or normal sky but dark road.
Hopefully this vide which I made will be better in the future. IMHO there is quite big amount of blur when driving, hard to read plates.
I have CPL and EV corrected for +1/3.

 

[Agie]

We are tuning the HDR on A119 now, soon the firmware will be offered for public testing.

With HDR on, better to see clearly for car license number at night, also have better white balance.

Attached 2 video screenshots for reference(HDR enbaled - Left pic).

View attachment 33550
View attachment 33551

great news, fantastic and thanks for the update. in changelog on website do reveal these images so that people can enable HDR because it does look like an important change

 

[Gibson99]

Hopefully soon HDR will be available. Now it is either blown sky (purely white) or normal sky but dark road.
Hopefully this vide which I made will be better in the future. IMHO there is quite big amount of blur when driving, hard to read plates.
I have CPL and EV corrected for +1/3.

Yeah in certain situations on bright days, the camera can't decide what to use for metering, so the sky and my white hood are really bright, but the surroundings are dark and muddy. It's rare, but it happens often enough that hdr will be a VERY welcome addition!

Now I just need to rewire stuff so I can use parking mode!

 

[Frenky Tan]

When this HRD feature will be add? is it already add on v3.1 or v3.3? Will it work on H/W v1 and v2?

 

[jokiin]

They are testing now, it's not in the current release versions

 

[TonyM]

@viofo Will HDR be available in 1440p on the A119, or only 1080p?

 

[Forsberg]

When is it gonna be released, this feature would be better than parking mode

 

[jokiin]

When is it gonna be released, this feature would be better than parking mode

 

[TonyM]

View attachment 34122

I hope there's not a parking mode / HDR toggle in the firmware!

 

[jokiin]

I hope there's not a parking mode / HDR toggle in the firmware!

you don't want the ability to turn both on or off as you prefer?

 

[TonyM]

you don't want the ability to turn both on or off as you prefer?

I meant a toggle between HDR and parking mode....
Yes, I'd like to turn each one on and off individually

 

[jokiin]

I meant a toggle between HDR and parking mode....
Yes, I'd like to turn each one on and off individually

I'm sure they would be separate features, no issue there