OP
OP
LTO (Lithium Titanate Oxide) – The Ultimate Battery for Dash-Cam parking mode (DIY)
- Thread starter GPak
- Start date
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
Thanks for the updated schematic, still loving how simple this construction is! I don’t have a UPS module in mine, though that might be a good addition in the near future.
It’s probably good to note that the location of the time delay relay (inside or outside of the battery box) depends on the behavior of your car’s 12v utility outlet. If the utility outlet goes on and off with the car’s ignition, it works well to have the relay inside the box as you’ve shown (most simple). If the utility outlet stays live all of the time (like in a Mustang) a different wiring arrangement is necessary: either you need an extra ACC switched wire from the fusebox to the relay inside the box, or the relay can be mounted external to the battery box with the same ACC switched wire from the fusebox.
Because my JK BMS doesn’t go to sleep on its own (bummer that they removed that feature from the software) and the LTO battery is in my trunk, I have to open the trunk to turn the BMS on and off. I want to look into extending its power switch into my center console for easier access. My son just leaves his BMS turned on all of the time and turns the dashcam off each night in the driveway. I’ve adjusted the charge rate on his parking battery accordingly.
It’s probably good to note that the location of the time delay relay (inside or outside of the battery box) depends on the behavior of your car’s 12v utility outlet. If the utility outlet goes on and off with the car’s ignition, it works well to have the relay inside the box as you’ve shown (most simple). If the utility outlet stays live all of the time (like in a Mustang) a different wiring arrangement is necessary: either you need an extra ACC switched wire from the fusebox to the relay inside the box, or the relay can be mounted external to the battery box with the same ACC switched wire from the fusebox.
Because my JK BMS doesn’t go to sleep on its own (bummer that they removed that feature from the software) and the LTO battery is in my trunk, I have to open the trunk to turn the BMS on and off. I want to look into extending its power switch into my center console for easier access. My son just leaves his BMS turned on all of the time and turns the dashcam off each night in the driveway. I’ve adjusted the charge rate on his parking battery accordingly.
OP
OP
GPak
Well-Known Member
Even though I have a "Smart Sleep" setting in my JK BMS app, it still doesn't turn off the BMS.
Not sure if it actually does anything.
Regardless of the Relay placement:
If the vehicle's power source is ACC, like my CLA outlet, then I connect the Yellow ACC wire and the Red power wires together for input (this becomes like two wires IN).
If the power source is permanent, then the Yellow ACC wire requires separate ACC source (three wires IN).
So, we can chose either power source.
Interestingly, initially with the 5 LTO cells, I had difficult time to fitting the Relay inside the Box, so I actually built the remote Relay option.
But later I shaved some material off the top of the Box and squeezed the Relay inside.
Attached are some pictures of the remote Relay, which includes a bypass of the yellow ACC wire going to the UPS.
Not sure if it actually does anything.
Regardless of the Relay placement:
If the vehicle's power source is ACC, like my CLA outlet, then I connect the Yellow ACC wire and the Red power wires together for input (this becomes like two wires IN).
If the power source is permanent, then the Yellow ACC wire requires separate ACC source (three wires IN).
So, we can chose either power source.
Interestingly, initially with the 5 LTO cells, I had difficult time to fitting the Relay inside the Box, so I actually built the remote Relay option.
But later I shaved some material off the top of the Box and squeezed the Relay inside.
Attached are some pictures of the remote Relay, which includes a bypass of the yellow ACC wire going to the UPS.
Attachments
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
Ha, maybe that's why they removed it from the app 😉
Clever implementation for your relay box! I've always wondered just how useful a tiny aluminum box like that would be...
OP
OP
GPak
Well-Known Member
As I mentioned in Ecoflow thread, I finally figured out the "Smart Sleep Time" for the JK BMS.
The problem for the JK BMS "Smart Sleep Time" was the "Smart Sleep Voltage" setting, which was too low.
After I set it to 2.6V (cell voltage), the "Smart Sleep Time" now works essentially like "Timeout" for the Ecoflow, except it will turn-off the BMS regardless of whether the dash cam is running or not, so I set "Smart Sleep Time" to one hour longer than the dash cam parking duration.
Now,
A day ago I got a notification on my iPhone about JK BMS update.
What's New:
Version 4.30.0
- Added model support
- Added serial port protocol
Not sure if I need this... maybe there are some fixes they didn't mention?
The problem for the JK BMS "Smart Sleep Time" was the "Smart Sleep Voltage" setting, which was too low.
After I set it to 2.6V (cell voltage), the "Smart Sleep Time" now works essentially like "Timeout" for the Ecoflow, except it will turn-off the BMS regardless of whether the dash cam is running or not, so I set "Smart Sleep Time" to one hour longer than the dash cam parking duration.
Now,
A day ago I got a notification on my iPhone about JK BMS update.
What's New:
Version 4.30.0
- Added model support
- Added serial port protocol
Not sure if I need this... maybe there are some fixes they didn't mention?
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
I don’t see any obvious addition with this new software. I was hoping I’d get the timeout feature, but I didn’t…
OP
OP
GPak
Well-Known Member
My app interface is exactly the same as yours with only one exception:
On the control page, instead of “Port Switch - CAN - RS485”, I have “Smart Seep”
Since the current update refers to “serial port protocol”, could you please confirm if “Port Switch - CAN - RS485”, was added after this update or if you had it before?
Also, it's nice to see that my settings are virtually the same as yours.
On the control page, instead of “Port Switch - CAN - RS485”, I have “Smart Seep”
Since the current update refers to “serial port protocol”, could you please confirm if “Port Switch - CAN - RS485”, was added after this update or if you had it before?
Also, it's nice to see that my settings are virtually the same as yours.
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
The Port Switch feature has always been there for me. I’m wondering if you and I have slightly different hardware and the app is reacting accordingly when paired to the bms.
OP
OP
GPak
Well-Known Member
I see that the hardware is the same, but the software (firmware?) version is different.
Attachments
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
If anyone else in the US wants to build one of the awesome LTO parking batteries that @GPak designed, BatteryHookUp has an AWESOME deal on 16 LTO batteries for just $160.
https://batteryhookup.com/products/36v-lto-toshiba-scib-20-000-cycles-16-cells-1
This is enough individual cells to make two parking batteries (6 cells each) and have four cells left over for another fun project. Last summer, I paid $250 to have 12 cells delivered.
https://batteryhookup.com/products/36v-lto-toshiba-scib-20-000-cycles-16-cells-1
This is enough individual cells to make two parking batteries (6 cells each) and have four cells left over for another fun project. Last summer, I paid $250 to have 12 cells delivered.
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
With a little bit of DIY effort and a very small additional cost outlay, this is a great parking battery. It already comes with a case. You only need to add a charger board (about $40), a battery management system (another $30), some cable connectors ($10), and add on your dashcam hardwire kit and you’re done! GPak provided a shopping list earlier in the thread.
For less than the cost of a single dedicated parking battery that sells for $350, you can have TWO batteries that are FAR superior (3x capacity, better temp range, less prone to failure, etc), and then sell the other one for $175-200 🙂. Should anything go wrong later on, you’ll have the ability to fix it yourself since you built it.
For less than the cost of a single dedicated parking battery that sells for $350, you can have TWO batteries that are FAR superior (3x capacity, better temp range, less prone to failure, etc), and then sell the other one for $175-200 🙂. Should anything go wrong later on, you’ll have the ability to fix it yourself since you built it.
Last edited:
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
I just made an interesting temperature discovery with my son’s LTO battery pack: Morning temps are getting colder here and today we’re at 15.3F/-9.3c. He always keeps his JiKong BMS turned on, which consumes about 1.4w of power. This little bit of power draw keeps the entire battery pack just a bit warmer. The BMS itself shows 30.9F/-0.6c, the temp probe taped to where the charger board mounts to the same metal panel as the BMS shows 25.3F/-3.7c and the temp probe taped to a crevice between two batteries shows 25.0F/-3.9c.
In the situation where the BMS is always powered up, it looks like there will never be a concern (at least in central PA) about the lower temp limit of the LTO batteries 👍
In the situation where the BMS is always powered up, it looks like there will never be a concern (at least in central PA) about the lower temp limit of the LTO batteries 👍
Last edited:
OP
OP
GPak
Well-Known Member
It's nice not to have to worry about the battery in freezing conditions.👍
Having disassembled my 7S LTO for an upgrade, I am currently using the Ecoflow River 3.
We had a couple of days where the night and early morning temperatures dropped to -3°C.
I was curious to see how the R3 would cope with real frost.
But on the first morning I found the garage above freezing, even though it is not heated.
The next night I parked my Jeep outside, but it seemed well insulated and there wasn't enough time to cool the car's interior to below freezing.
My next hope is upcoming Tuesday and Wednesday, which promise much cooler temperatures.
Having disassembled my 7S LTO for an upgrade, I am currently using the Ecoflow River 3.
We had a couple of days where the night and early morning temperatures dropped to -3°C.
I was curious to see how the R3 would cope with real frost.
But on the first morning I found the garage above freezing, even though it is not heated.
The next night I parked my Jeep outside, but it seemed well insulated and there wasn't enough time to cool the car's interior to below freezing.
My next hope is upcoming Tuesday and Wednesday, which promise much cooler temperatures.
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
We're supposed to hit an overnight low of 0 to -5F on Mon & Tues of next week. I'm curious to see how this goes for my son's car that stays outside. Mine is always in the garage which seems to rarely go below 32F, even when outside temps are much colder.
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
This is about as cold as we get in central PA, we had a low temp of -5F/-20C this morning as I left for work at 7a. No issues reported by the BMS and the Toshiba LTO batteries are supposed to work well to -30C, though I have the BMS set to not charge below -5F/-20C in the menu system. The small heat generated by the BMS always being on in my son's car keeps the LTO box a few degrees warmer. The T1 probe is attached to the crevice between two batteries in the middle of the battery box and the T2 probe is attached to the metal chassis plate that is shared by the BMS and the charger board.
I would imagine that mounting the BMS to the edges of the battery stack with some thermal tape would keep the batteries a degree or two warmer in the winter months, but would also add a few degrees during the summer heat which might not be desired.
I would imagine that mounting the BMS to the edges of the battery stack with some thermal tape would keep the batteries a degree or two warmer in the winter months, but would also add a few degrees during the summer heat which might not be desired.
OP
OP
GPak
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's cold! And you work there!
We've got 26F here tonight and early this morning plus a couple inches of snow, and schools and all businesses are closed tomorrow. ⛄❄️❄️
We've got 26F here tonight and early this morning plus a couple inches of snow, and schools and all businesses are closed tomorrow. ⛄❄️❄️
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
Ha- closed "just" for tomorrow and not for the rest of the week ? 😉
It's always amusing watching weather broadcasts from the south whenever there is 1-2" of snow. It takes 2-3 feet of snow here for my employer to close - only happened two or three times in the past 25 years.. We got some snow over the weekend and I took my daughter (she recently got her learner's permit for driving) out to find an empty parking lot so I could teach her how to make donuts, errr..., uhmmm.... I mean, how to counter steer out of a slide with the car. Volvo makes this hard, had to turn off the various safety systems before we could REALLY have some fun. She was disappointed 2 hours later when I said it was time to head home.
Anyhow, after a full day outside today, my own parking battery was indicating 37F/3C in my trunk when the actual ambient temp was around 10F/-12C. I suppose most of the difference was daylight on a mostly overcast day warming the car. Looks like even colder temps are coming tonight, it's only 8p and were already at -1F.
Enjoy the day off tomorrow!
It's always amusing watching weather broadcasts from the south whenever there is 1-2" of snow. It takes 2-3 feet of snow here for my employer to close - only happened two or three times in the past 25 years.. We got some snow over the weekend and I took my daughter (she recently got her learner's permit for driving) out to find an empty parking lot so I could teach her how to make donuts, errr..., uhmmm.... I mean, how to counter steer out of a slide with the car. Volvo makes this hard, had to turn off the various safety systems before we could REALLY have some fun. She was disappointed 2 hours later when I said it was time to head home.
Anyhow, after a full day outside today, my own parking battery was indicating 37F/3C in my trunk when the actual ambient temp was around 10F/-12C. I suppose most of the difference was daylight on a mostly overcast day warming the car. Looks like even colder temps are coming tonight, it's only 8p and were already at -1F.
Enjoy the day off tomorrow!
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
As expected, last night's temps dipped a bit lower to -8F/-22C and everything is still functioning well! It's been three years since we had temps this cold (exactly to the day). Before that, the coldest that I remember is -13F back in 2004 or 2005. I'd say the LTO batteries deliver on their promise of low temp operation! Have to give it another 6-7 months to see what temps result from the inside a dark blue car that sits all day in the summer sun.
OP
OP
GPak
Well-Known Member
Yes, as far as I know, LTO is the only lithium-based chemistry that can be safely charged at low temperatures as deep as -30°C.
With such a large market located in cold climates, I wonder why manufacturers don't use LTO cells? sure, LTO cells are a bit more expensive, but they only cost a fraction of the cost of the entire battery.
There are many LTO cells available in different shape and capacities.
If large capacity is not needed, here is the one option I like ($70 for 6 cells), half the capacity (138Wh) of a Toshiba cells that will fit in a smaller box.
With such a large market located in cold climates, I wonder why manufacturers don't use LTO cells? sure, LTO cells are a bit more expensive, but they only cost a fraction of the cost of the entire battery.
There are many LTO cells available in different shape and capacities.
If large capacity is not needed, here is the one option I like ($70 for 6 cells), half the capacity (138Wh) of a Toshiba cells that will fit in a smaller box.
EricSan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2023
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 1,065
- Location
- Central PA
- Country
- United States
- Dash Cam
- There are ALWAYS user serviceable parts inside!
Totally agree, the incremental cost is pretty small in the context of the markup percentage. The LTO batteries that you linked are $10/ea at qty of 24. I imagine the price is much lower when you purchase 100 or 1,00 of them. It doesn’t make sense to use batteries in a commercial product that can’t handle freezing temps.