Mini 806 Capacitor Model?

[Nigel]

Well it looks like the possibilities for a Capacitor version might change..... I just received my most recent parts order (I work in electronics) and got my hands on a 15F 5.6V cap that is amazingly small.
Its the Vishay P/N: MAL219691214E3 capacitor and it's only 0.472" Dia x 0.394" L. Looking at the datasheet it seems like they have many varieties which might be able to be squeezed in the case and provide 15F+.

I plan on mounting this 15F unit in my 0803 and test it out. Stay tuned!

Those are more like lipo batteries than supercaps, you can't run them to empty without damage and table 3 says you have to charge them slower than the 0803 lipo charging circuit will and the maximum discharge current is not nearly enough to power an 0803...

 

[mr_milo]

Those are more like lipo batteries than supercaps, you can't run them to empty without damage and table 3 says you have to charge them slower than the 0803 lipo charging circuit will and the maximum discharge current is not nearly enough to power an 0803...

Thanks! I missed that part of the datasheet as I was skimming it. I actually never had a chance to try it this weekend since the kids were a handful and my computer died. When I first got a sample I thought they sounded too good to be true but was happy to get my hands on one to try it out. Not sure if I'll bother now. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Nigel]

I wasn't trying to put you off them, in fact I was looking forward to seeing how you had sorted the issues!

I like the note:

Note
• Charge and discharge cycles at room temperature - maximal 50 000 cycles at room temperature allowed!

What happens if you exceed that limit - and why did they put an "!" !

 

[mr_milo]

OK well maybe I'll give it a try and see how it goes. I thought I'd have time this past weekend but things with the family got busy. Maybe I'll try a few bench tests first and see how they go. Then try it in the 0803. I will post back if / when I get more info.

 

[Sunny]

What happens if you exceed that limit - and why did they put an "!" !

Self destruct.

 

[Rayman.Chan]

my supper CAP mini 0806 works great on my car from last month, since I changed the battery and reworked a short power off delay firmware.
and my mini 0806 stand there behind my rearview mirror for 4 monthes. I left the boot sound ON so I know it is working.

 

[Dez]

A bit light on specifications (dimensions and temp rating), but they have a retrofit supercap for the Mobius on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/311313148555
I wonder if one of these might suitable for the 0806.

Also, I'm not sure if 2.7V might be just a bit too low.

Edit: Saw these on another site, they are 8mm thick, so very likely unsuitable anyway.

These look much better http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/427/196hvc-463326.pdf
Edit: I saw Nigel has commented on these and that they may have several problems in a 0806.

 

[Rayman.Chan]

A super capacitor for the Mobius Action Camera. Installed at owners risk.
Details are as follows:
Hy-Cap: 2.7V-5F.
Weight: 4g
Dimensions: Length = 2.5mm. Width = 2mm.
Why use a super capacitor:
A super capacitor is good for those who want to....:
- Leave Mobius in a car for longer period or constantly.
- Use motion detection a lot
- Use the Mobius in high heat and expose it to summer heat

the dimension confused me.......... maybe it is 25mm*20mm*10mm?

 

[Dez]

Yeah the dimensions would have to be incorrect. I saw what looked like the same type:


Specifications:
Hy-Cap: 2.7V-5F
Dimensions: Length = 25mm, Width = 20mm, Depth = 8mm

Maybe just a bit too thick to fit properly.

I also saw http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/427/196hvc-463326.pdf

Which claims for the 2 and 3 cell "lay flat" types 12 x 24 x 2.5mm 2.8V and 22 x 24 x 2.5mm 4.2V respectively.
They also claim 4.0F, 15.0F and 90F capacitance ratings.

Edit: I saw Nigel has commented on these and that they may have several problems in a 0806.

 

[Rayman.Chan]

for the supper cap version, we need to set the power off delay = 0, means the camera will end the current file and turn off immediately. the END&OFF process will last 3.7 seconds.
for the Lithium battery version, the camera will continue record 3 seconds then end the file and turn off. (total 6.7 seconds)
the supper cap in my camera can support 5 seconds for camera running.

the question is: if we need different firmwares for LITH version and CAP version?
or if the zero delay firmware will be satisfied on normal mini 0806?

 

[Dez]

That might take a bit experimenting. Especially if we use super caps with different capacitance and energy storage ratings.

I wish this http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...EpiMZZMuDCPMZUZ%2bYlxdFextp0taVSY%2b6ovCDBq4= didn't have an MOQ of 17.

I'd buy one to experiment with.

 

[Rayman.Chan]

14x36x2.5mm, I think it is too long.
current I am using 23*16.5*8.5mm 5V 2.5F, it can support 5 seconds for the 500mA power consume so it is safe for the 3.7sec boot off.

 

[reverend]

To be honest Rayman you should be able to use the immediate turn off setting on all the 0806 firmwares - going down the capacitor route definitely opens you up to new markets and positions the Mini cameras fitted with one a step higher in the scheme of things

Sounds great it's working well for you though

A Mini 080x with capacitor and parking guard mount should work in all countries unlike the battery version which certain countries rule out immediately.

For dashcams super capacitors are better than batteries.

 

[jokiin]

you certainly can use instant power off with battery models as well, I'm not sure the question was technical or marketing, eg; would battery model owners be ok with this

the simple fix is just make it a menu option, instant off or not, not that hard to do

 

[Nigel]

the question is: if we need different firmwares for LITH version and CAP version?
or if the zero delay firmware will be satisfied on normal mini 0806?

I have never understood why it keeps going for 10 seconds, is there actually a reason?

I don't think anyone would notice if it turned off immediately, if fact it may remove some confusion between the auto power off time and the 10 seconds, it would also allow you to remove the memory card sooner after tuning off the engine and maybe avoid some corrupted files through accidently removing the memory card before it stops recording.

If there is a reason for the 10 seconds then maybe it is not long enough anyway, maybe it should use the auto off time setting so it is configurable, mine actually runs for 4 minutes after turning the ignition off because the car keeps the power circuit alive for that long so I would never notice if the 10 seconds was removed.

 

[Sunny]

for the supper cap version, we need to set the power off delay = 0, means the camera will end the current file and turn off immediately. the END&OFF process will last 3.7 seconds.
for the Lithium battery version, the camera will continue record 3 seconds then end the file and turn off. (total 6.7 seconds)
the supper cap in my camera can support 5 seconds for camera running.

the question is: if we need different firmwares for LITH version and CAP version?
or if the zero delay firmware will be satisfied on normal mini 0806?

Rayman,
I'm okay with stopping recording as soon as power is not coming from the charger.
Looks like even then it needs at least 3.7 seconds to save last file and turn off so cap needs to provide at least 4 secs or more so over 5 secs is a safe bet.

...mine actually runs for 4 minutes after turning the ignition off because the car keeps the power circuit alive for that long so I would never notice if the 10 seconds was removed.

Rayman can't fix that 4 minutes thingy.
You need to fix your car's 12v outlet or have another camera point to your key hole and program it to turn the dashcam off when it sees key on off position or taken out.

 

[Dashmellow]

I have never understood why it keeps going for 10 seconds, is there actually a reason?

I don't think anyone would notice if it turned off immediately, if fact it may remove some confusion between the auto power off time and the 10 seconds, it would also allow you to remove the memory card sooner after tuning off the engine and maybe avoid some corrupted files through accidently removing the memory card before it stops recording.

If there is a reason for the 10 seconds then maybe it is not long enough anyway, maybe it should use the auto off time setting so it is configurable, mine actually runs for 4 minutes after turning the ignition off because the car keeps the power circuit alive for that long so I would never notice if the 10 seconds was removed.

If you should happen to be in an automobile accident and abruptly lose power to the camera those extra seconds of footage may prove to be of vital importance. While instant power off may be the simple firmware solution to install a capacitor here, it is a trade off.

 

[Nigel]

Rayman can't fix that 4 minutes thingy.
You need to fix your car's 12v outlet or have another camera point to your key hole and program it to turn the dashcam off when it sees key on off position or taken out.

I don't want it fixed! I selected that circuit because it stays on for a while.

If you should happen to be in an automobile accident and abruptly lose power to the camera those extra seconds of footage may prove to be of vital importance. While instant power off may be the simple firmware solution to install a capacitor here, it is a trade off.

Yes, but I suspect that any accident which destroys or disconnects the battery is going to be over in two or three video frames and the power adaptor capacitors will keep the camera going for that long if the camera hasn't gone flying off it's mount!

 

[Sunny]

If you should happen to be in an automobile accident and abruptly lose power to the camera those extra seconds of footage may prove to be of vital importance. While instant power off may be the simple firmware solution to install a capacitor here, it is a trade off.

Yes that makes a point about power off after a crash but also suggests all dash cams with capacitor are bad in that situation.
hmmm
It's good when an accident knocks the power off and then car starts falling from a cliff. It'll be a nice flying video.

 

[Dashmellow]

Yes that makes a point about power off after a crash but also suggests all dash cams with capacitor are bad in that situation.
hmmm
It's good when an accident knocks the power off and then car starts falling from a cliff. It'll be a nice flying video.

Not all capacitor based cams shut down instantly, although none will run after power shut off quite like a battery operated camera. Like I said, it is a trade-off.

There are numerous examples of dash cam videos capturing important details after impact.

 

[Dashmellow]

Yes, but I suspect that any accident which destroys or disconnects the battery is going to be over in two or three video frames and the power adaptor capacitors will keep the camera going for that long if the camera hasn't gone flying off it's mount!

Not true! There have been many examples of vehicles spinning wildly out of control after impact before slamming into another vehicle. The still running cameras documented this vital aspect of the accident along with a few seconds of the aftermath.