Mini-xxxx redesign concept?

[Nigel]

The Sj7 Star can get almighty hot, but i never had it thermal shut down on me.

The F1 has a different sensor to the SJ7, think it should generate a little less heat, might be better designed for dealing with heat too, plus the processor will be a lot further from the lens so there should be less heat related focus issues.

 

[Dashmellow]

The F1 has a different sensor to the SJ7, think it should generate a little less heat, might be better designed for dealing with heat too, plus the processor will be a lot further from the lens so there should be less heat related focus issues.

The sensor inside the lens module gets quite hot too.

 

[kamkar]

Thats nice to hear, while fine the Sj7 from a hardware standpoint, the internals or at least Sensor are a well know.
So SJcams have played it safe, and that are by no means a silly thing to do.
So brave by Gitup to try something new, just wondering if that mean even better performance.
But it looks like Gitup know the game and have agreed that a new sensor/chipset combination are worth the effort.

Just need someone to get hands on and the rest of us to see what it can do.

 

[Dashmellow]

Has any info regarding the projected price of the F1 been posted as yet?

 

[kamkar]

To my knowledge that picture is about as good as it get in regard to released info, then again i am not able to look Gitup up on those social media pages sa i am not into such things.

That LCD on it must be the size of days long gone Casio digital watches.

 

[jokiin]

If dash cameras were designed and built more like CCTV cameras which are hermetically sealed and sit in the blazing hot sun all day, heat would be less of a problem. Today's CCTV cameras are built with many of the same sensors and DSPs as those used in dash cams. Unlike dash cams, they run 24/7.
View attachment 32370

also unlike dashcams, massive enclosure, good heatsink properties, reflective surface and not sitting behind a window in a locked car that's 30°c to 40°c above ambient temps

 

[jokiin]

To my knowledge that picture is about as good as it get in regard to released info, then again i am not able to look Gitup up on those social media pages sa i am not into such things.

don't think anything has been posted regarding price as yet

 

[Nigel]

To my knowledge that picture is about as good as it get in regard to released info, then again i am not able to look Gitup up on those social media pages sa i am not into such things.

That LCD on it must be the size of days long gone Casio digital watches.

I think the LCD is very similar to the one on the front of your SJ6.

Yes, that image is about it for released information, although the comments on facebook also say "The F1 support 2.4G Wi-Fi and 5.8G Wi-Fi." so we might actually be able to watch the recorded videos over the Wi-Fi.

 

[kamkar]

As it is now downloading movies off current wifi cameras are a joke, i dident even know wifi could be that slow.

 

[Dashmellow]

also unlike dashcams, massive enclosure, good heatsink properties, reflective surface and not sitting behind a window in a locked car that's 30°c to 40°c above ambient temps

With the exception of good heat sink properties everything else you mention isn't really accurate. Many of today's CCTV cameras are quite small actually and many are black or charcoal gray. Most importantly you ignore my mention of the most significant difference between dash cams and CCTV cameras and that is that unlike dash cams which have housings that are as well ventilated as possible, CCTV cameras are hermetically sealed and the electronics and lenses inside these hermetically sealed containers can spend hours and hours a day baking in direct sunshine, and they run 24/7 for days, months and years on end. The notion that a hot car interior would be any hotter or more stressful to the components than the inside of a hermetically sealed CCTV camera baking in the hot sun seems like a fantasy.

None of my CCTV cameras have ever gone out of focus or experienced a component failure with the exception of some IR emitters that do eventually start to fail as they approach end of life after about 50,000 hours or so. Cable and connector failure can be a problem after long periods out in the elements.

Recently, I've been dismantling and examining several old CCTV cameras that have been taken out of service. The primary reason these cameras were taken out of service was indeed some, but not all IR emitters failed plus the fact that the sensor and DSP technology had become obsolete. My tear-down research has led me to certain important conclusions about these cameras. I agree with you completely about heat sinking. It seems many CCTV cameras go to the trouble of mounting the the PCB and other components on a metal plate and heat sinking is always a priority. More significantly each camera has revealed that all the components, including the lens assembly are mounted in a very rigid "cage" structure that prevents any kind of warping of any of the assemblies due to temperature changes. In some cases plastic parts are used along with metal ones but in all cases rigidity appears to be of paramount importance. The lenses in these cameras are also always very well supported in such a way that they cannot move around or warp due to temperature extremes. In some cases the lenses are not only in metal modules and have metal barrels but they are inside a metal sleeve that keeps the lens bezel rigidly in place. The main thing is that virtually every CCTV camera on the market is made with a cast aluminum alloy housing, not plastic. There are a few coming on the market now made from high tech polymers or FRP.

Comparing the design and build quality of the average aluminum alloy CCTV camera and the average dash cam the differences seem dramatic. Dash cams, with their thin plastic housings with a circuit board screwed onto molded in stand-offs bear more of a relationship with your average electronic gadget or toy than to an actual "camera". The same comparison holds true to film and digital cameras I have dismantled which regardless of price are built much more rigidly and to a higher standard than any dash camera I have ever taken apart. Interestingly, you can buy a very high quality CCTV camera today for about the same or even less than a decent dash cam.

Ultimately what I believe is needed in dash cams is a new paradigm where dash cams will be designed and built more like miniature CCTV cameras. Imagine a small, cast aluminum alloy housing that is extremely well ventilated, possibly including heat sink fins and an extremely rigid internal heat sinked mounting platform for the PCB along with a rigid metal lens support. This would make for a camera and internal components that are unwarpable and that is engineered to shed heat as efficiently as possible.

A camera like this could also borrow a really cool feature that I'm sure would be very appealing to dash cam buyers much the same as it is to CCTV cam buyers, perhaps more so and that would be vari-focal lenses that will never lose focus regardless of temperature extremes. Oh, and maybe an integral sun shade like we often see on CCTV cameras would also be a nice feature. Hopefully, one of these days some intrepid dash cam developer will take this ball and run with it.

Here is an example of an extremely compact, very well made, black, hermetically sealed CCTV bullet camera that can endure temperature extremes for extended periods of time. With a different mounting scheme a camera like this wouldn't be too much different in size than a dash cam.

 

[jokiin]

other things aside you're underestimating the impact being inside the vehicle has on temperatures, the security cameras are often mounted under eaves and don't receive anything like full sun for the most part, cameras that do get full sun are generally the larger silver or white type that get used, I'm sure you can cherry pick and find some example of where someone has used a black camera somewhere where they probably shouldn't have but it would be far from typical

 

[Nigel]

The notion that a hot car interior would be any hotter or more stressful to the components than the inside of a hermetically sealed CCTV camera baking in the hot sun seems like a fantasy.

Not much greenhouse effect in your CCTV camera, it's inside is not being heated directly by the sun like with the car, the enclosure is keeping the sun's energy outside instead of trapping it inside.

There is a very good reason the smaller outdoor CCTV cameras with higher power consumption to surface area ratios are painted black - black surfaces radiate heat faster than any other colour and thus the insides stay cooler.

 

[Dashmellow]

other things aside you're underestimating the impact being inside the vehicle has on temperatures, the security cameras are often mounted under eaves and don't receive anything like full sun for the most part, cameras that do get full sun are generally the larger silver or white type that get used, I'm sure you can cherry pick and find some example of where someone has used a black camera somewhere where they probably shouldn't have but it would be far from typical

Actually, I'm not cherry picking, I'm basing my experience on the dark gray CCTV cameras I have had in service for 9 years now that do indeed sit baking in the sun for many hours a day.

The bottom line here is that if dash cams were designed and built more like CCTV cameras they would be far more reliable than they are now. Focus shifts would be a thing of the past among other issues. I can't think of another product category that is as prone to failures and related problems than dash cams. I've been as delighted as the next guy to witness the vast improvements in performance and reliability we've seen over the last seven years but dash cams are still gadgets more than anything else.

 

[Dashmellow]

Not much greenhouse effect in your CCTV camera, it's inside is not being heated directly by the sun like with the car, the enclosure is keeping the sun's energy outside instead of trapping it inside.

There is a very good reason the smaller outdoor CCTV cameras with higher power consumption to surface area ratios are painted black - black surfaces radiate heat faster than any other colour and thus the insides stay cooler.

I don't buy the notion that a sealed metal container baking in direct sunshine is not heating up the components inside. Of course, those components inside the sealed metal container are putting out quite a lot of their own heat which has no way to escape except by radiation. Black or dark objects sitting in the sun tend to get pretty damned hot. My midnight blue truck hood is a good example compared to my friend's identical white truck.

 

[jokiin]

The bottom line here is that if dash cams were designed and built more like CCTV cameras they would be far more reliable than they are now. Focus shifts would be a thing of the past among other issues. I can't think of another product category that is as prone to failures and related problems than dash cams. I've been as delighted as the next guy to witness the vast improvements in performance and reliability we've seen over the last seven years but dash cams are still gadgets more than anything else.

you can get ones that are designed and built more like CCTV cameras, Panasonic make them, they're far from typical outside of law enforcement use and not something that 99% of consumers would have in their window as they're not practical at all and are very expensive

 

[Nigel]

I don't buy the notion that a sealed metal container baking in direct sunshine is not heating up the components inside. Of course, those components inside the sealed metal container are putting out quite a lot of their own heat which has no way to escape except by radiation. Black or dark objects sitting in the sun tend to get pretty damned hot. My midnight blue truck hood is a good example compared to my friend's identical white truck.

Of course the bit that is directly facing the sun will get hot, at least on the outside surface, but it is the average that matters. A lot of the outdoor ones are spheres so that very little is ever directly facing the sun.

 

[Dashmellow]

Of course the bit that is directly facing the sun will get hot, at least on the outside surface, but it is the average that matters. A lot of the outdoor ones are spheres so that very little is ever directly facing the sun.

I don't buy your logic and you continue to ignore the internally generated heat that has no easy way to escape.

 

[Dashmellow]

you can get ones that are designed and built more like CCTV cameras, Panasonic make them, they're far from typical outside of law enforcement use and not something that 99% of consumers would have in their window as they're not practical at all and are very expensive

Police dash cams are irrelevant. The point is that consumer dash cams could be vastly improved if they had increased rigidity inside and out, better heat sinking and enhanced physical support for the lens barrel and lens bezel. In other words more like I've learned about CCTV construction from tearing them down.

 

[jokiin]

Police dash cams are irrelevant. The point is that consumer dash cams could be vastly improved if they had increased rigidity inside and out, better heat sinking and enhanced physical support for the lens barrel and lens bezel. In other words more like I've learned about CCTV construction from tearing them down.

not irrelevant as they follow the same type of design you're talking about, building that into something that is acceptable (size/cost/design wise) in a consumer device is the challenge, everything is easy in theory, until such time as you try to actually do it

 

[Dashmellow]

not irrelevant as they follow the same type of design you're talking about, building that into something that is acceptable (size/cost/design wise) in a consumer device is the challenge, everything is easy in theory, until such time as you try to actually do it

You can buy excellent quality metal CCTV cameras for 100 dollars or less, about half the price of a SG9665GC. It can't be too hard to make a similar product, only smaller.